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Thread: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

  1. #51
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Guy,
    Thanks for your input.
    For me, since living in Telluride, CO now, I still have my much loved Sinar arTec, with a 35,72,and 135mm lenses, the only problem is a lot of the good shooting here require long hikes, and my arTec kit is a little heavy for hikes over 2 miles round trip, my back starts killing me, Turning 50 is a real bitch.

    So here comes the D800, I thought wow, now I can carry this on longer hikes and still get great IQ. So I was looking to put together a 3-4 lens kit for the D800, Looks like I may just have to rent them all out and give them a try, I am not a good WA shooter to start with but I still would like to carry with me a 24/25mm or even a 28mm lens would be nice.

    Thats where I'm at.

    Steven
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Dave,
    You got it correct I don't want a 21mm lens to wide for me.
    I may just bypass the 24 all together and start at 35mm. Any advice there since I will be shooting at f5.6-f8 ?
    Oh yeah did you get a D800 or D800/E btw.

    Steven


    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    As Guy has pointed out, it's a tough call when it comes to landscape use. The Zeiss 21 is "that good" but I know Steven how you much prefer not going that wide (of how I recall...LOL). From memory, it was a difficult call at infinity as to whether the Nikon 24mm f1.4 or 14-24 Zoom @ 24mm was definitely sharper at these longer distances? Stopped down to f5.6-f8, where I believe you don't mind shooting Steven, I recall favoring the zoom set at 24mm over the 24mm f1.4 at similar f-stops. At closer range it was a somewhat different story. Again this might all be a bit academic since I was initially testing performance on a D700/D3s and the D800 changes things quite a bit. I'm starting the process of re-evaluating many of these lenses on the D800 now. The new Zeiss 25mm is still very tempting for a number of reasons and I wouldn't discount that lens just yet.

    Dave (D&A)
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    We are down in the sticky wicky area here. Obviously a easy bet is the Zeiss 21mm if you are willing to do a little extra work with PT lens but now I see CS6 out with some wide angle filter that may help. Now if your a 21 person than 28, 50 and so on is the preferred gap range. Otherwise its my setup 24, 35 , 85 type gapping. Always think SYSTEM here and build around your favorite glass or most preferred. My most anchor lens is the 35 so I built around that with 85 and 24. I added a 50 in there just for those moments I may need a little less distortion but wider than the 85. Here I went for sharpness not look in the 50 1.8. Really no wrong or right here except maybe getting your gapping correctly to you needs.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Dave,
    You got it correct I don't want a 21mm lens to wide for me.
    I may just bypass the 24 all together and start at 35mm. Any advice there since I will be shooting at f5.6-f8 ?
    Oh yeah did you get a D800 or D800/E btw.

    Steven
    Steven, at this point, those who are actively shooting and testing these lenses with the D800 are more qualified to respond as my experiences up to date is primarily with the D700/D3s, except in a few cases where I had time to perform some quick lens tests with the D800. That will change soon of course as I am begining some active testing with that body.

    So regarding 35mm lenses, I've used fairly extensively the Zeiss 35mm f2 and Nikon 35mm f1.4 . For strictly distant landscape use, I would have no hesitation to recommend the Zeiss as nice as the Nikon is. I feel the Nikon is a more of a "look" lens than strictly an ultrasharp, landscape type. How this will change on a D800, I cannot currently say. The wildcard for me personally is the Zeiss 35mm f1.4. I haven't had any experience with that one. If you're stopping down to f5.6 or f8, I personally for you use would choose the Zeiss 35mm f2 but with the cavet that it still performs much the same way on the D800. That is the big question with many of these lenses.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 9th May 2012 at 09:58.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Thanks Dave and Guy.
    I may start with then a 35/2 Zeiss, 50/2 Macro Zeiss, 100/2 Macro Zeiss and then maybe the Nikon 180

    Just a thought.

    Steven
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Thanks Dave and Guy.
    I may start with then a 35/2 Zeiss, 50/2 Macro Zeiss, 100/2 Macro Zeiss and then maybe the Nikon 180

    Just a thought.

    Steven
    I know I'm going to get hit over the head with this one...but I personally would select the Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro over the Nikon 180. The recently discontinued Sigma non OS version of this lens if relative compactness is desired (although it's still heftier than the Nikon 180) or the recently released OS version if Image Stabilization is desired. Both have built in rotating tripod collars and optically speaking, I much prefer one of the Sigma's at any subject distance, macro or distant landscape.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    This is a really well thought out evaluation . Both the zeiss and nikon lenses seem to be optimized around a specific intended usage . The Zeiss 21 is clearly designed for landscape or subjects at a distance ...it does not handle well as a walk around lens. It is large with a huge 82mm front element making it almost impossible to use for street shooting and not much fun for even travel. On a tripod when IQ is critical to the desired rendering ...I agree its the Gold Standard for DSLR ..at least the best I have seen .

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Here is a excerpt from lens rentals on the zeiss 25

    It’s really, really good. That should about cover it. Oh, you want details? OK.
    It’s an interesting lens. Unlike previous versions in this focal range there is very little field curvature (unlike the 25mm f/2.8). In terms of pure resolution it’s superb, generating numbers in our testing similar to the legendary 21mm f/2.8. Sharper than the Nikon or Canon 24mm f/1.4 lenses when shot at f/2.0. Sharper than any 35mm, 50mm, or 85mm lens we stock at f/2.0. And that’s both in the center and overall (weighted average) sharpness.
    But there’s a bit of a catch: that’s for testing at middle distances (10 to 25 feet). But at infinity (where the MTF charts are made) it doesn’t seem quite as good (it’s still good, but not amazingly good), so there are probably better choices for landscape work. But 25mm isn’t really a landscape focal length for most people, it’s more for reportage, street shooting, architecture, and video work. For these purposes, at middle distances, I’m not sure there’s a better lens available.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Na we love ya Dave and I am probably selling my 180 as soon as I can order the 200 f2 but will say it's working nicely on the D800. Steven you can find the 180 used pretty easy
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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Guy,
    So you have been pretty happy with your 180?
    Of course the 200/2 is the bomb but defeats my purpose of keeping my kit as small as possible.

    Steven
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Na we love ya Dave and I am probably selling my 180 as soon as I can order the 200 f2 but will say it's working nicely on the D800. Steven you can find the 180 used pretty easy
    Thanks Guy! Well I'd give up the Sigma 150 (or Nikon 180 for that matter) for the 200 f2 anyday ....that is if someone would kindly carry it for me while I'm out shooting...LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Dave if I was going to go Sigma,
    I would wait for the new 180/2.8 Macro OS...

    Steven

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    I know I'm going to get hit over the head with this one...but I personally would select the Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro over the Nikon 180. The recently discontinued Sigma non OS version of this lens if relative compactness is desired (although it's still heftier than the Nikon 180) or the recently released OS version if Image Stabilization is desired. Both have built in rotating tripod collars and optically I much prefer one of the Sigma's.

    Dave (D&A)
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Guy,
    So you have been pretty happy with your 180?
    Of course the 200/2 is the bomb but defeats my purpose of keeping my kit as small as possible.

    Steven
    Yes it's better than I thought it would be on it. Just have to AF tune it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Dave if I was going to go Sigma,
    I would wait for the new 180/2.8 Macro OS...

    Steven
    Can't comment on the new Sigma 180 OS, but the recently discontinued older Sigma 180 macro was clearly inferior "optically" to the 150...it wasn't even close! The Sigma 150 macro has quite a excellent reputation and I would say its one of a small group of superb Sigma lenses. It even does exceptionally well with their 1.4x and makes a excellent 210mm f4 lens. So how much or whether the new 180 Macro OS is better, it's hard to say.

    One thing that many have noticed is that with some of the recent Sigma lenses being discontinued in favor of newer OS versions of the same or similar lens....optically speaking, some seemed to have been improved, some slightly if that, and others actually not as good. It doesn't appear sample to sample variation is the culprit for these observations although there is a lot of variability in Sigma lens samples in general.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    If you are comparing to a D3/d700 experience you may be surprised ......not in a positive way ...weaknesses not visible at 12MP can become bothersome at 36MP. I experienced this with the d3X . I also have a D7000 which has the same sensor at the pixel level ..so when I look at 100% is not that much different .

    Diglloyd did a run down on the zeiss glass for the D800..which I think is blogged not subscription and he knows the zeiss lenses as well as anyone . he went through each lens and gave a short POV.

    I can t follow at all the logic of how a lens that wash t great on a 12mp sensor would be better on a 36mp sensor . Maybe the corrections are occurring in the camera processor or in post processing .
    ....

    No much is said about handling or character . For example in the 35mm range ...the Zeiss 35/2 handles like a dream ..its small ,pretty light and has a short throw . This is a lens I can follow focus on a kite boarder and get a high percentage of sharp images. It has too much CA and can get some color twists in the shadows ...I try to shoot it at F5.6 . It has the classic clinical zeiss look and bokeh is not noteworthy.The 35/1.4 zeiss is huge and heavy ...a lens that needs a purpose . It has a fantastic bokeh making it a nice Cafe cruiser ..but its slow with a long throw . Rich colors my favorite for character . See the examples on the Zeiss site .The Nikon has a nice all around balance to my eye it has deeper color than older Nikkors and superb micro contrast . This is a lens that can stay on the camera where you can leverage all the AF bells and whistles .

    All three lenses are plenty sharp enough for my usage ..but that have different personalities . I also come from a street,travel POV and you might think differently if you will be on a tripod doing landscape etc. or in a studio working with models .

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Steven, at this point, those who are actively shooting and testing these lenses with the D800 are more qualified to respond as my experiences up to date is primarily with the D700/D3s, except in a few cases where I had time to perform some quick lens tests with the D800. That will change soon of course as I am begining some active testing with that body.

    So regarding 35mm lenses, I've used fairly extensively the Zeiss 35mm f2 and Nikon 35mm f1.4 . For strictly distant landscape use, I would have no hesitation to recommend the Zeiss as nice as the Nikon is. I feel the Nikon is a more of a "look" lens that strictly an ultrasharp landscape one. How this will change on a D800, I cannot currently say. The wildcard for me personally is the Zeiss 35mm f1.4. I haven't had any experience with that one. If you're stopping down to f5.6 or f8, I personally for you use would choose the Zeiss 35mm f2 but with the cavet that it still performs much the same way on the D800. That is the big question with many of these lenses.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Much agree Roger. Although I previously used a D3x for a short time and tested many of my favorite and well respected lenses on it, no doubt some of them fell far short of expectations when tested on this higher MP body.

    What intrigues me is time and again I keep reading references to the notion that a few lenses (some of which would be categorized as mid range average to above average), now appear to show improved performance on the D800 vs. a D700 or D3 or similar full frame 12MP body. What sort of mechanism would account for this or theory put forth as a credible explanation is something I'm waiting for.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 9th May 2012 at 11:20.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Dave it could actually come down to sensor pitch. But I agree its a tough one to figure out as we are seeing some lenses as not so great in performance actually do really well on the new D series 800's
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Dave it could actually come down to sensor pitch. But I agree its a tough one to figure out as we are seeing some lenses as not so great in performance actually do really well on the new D series 800's
    Agreed...and maybe just like in the past when people might sing the praises of a lens's performance on the D700/D3s but quickly had to note that it didn't live up to expectations on a D3x...so too will specific clarification or disclaimers be needed for noting lens performance (both good/bad/improved or not improved) when used on a D800....not unlike the situation with regards to using certain Medium Format lenses on backs with ever growing higher pixel counts.

    With that said, this anomoly or observation of average lenses performing better on a 36MP D800 vs their use on a 12MP D3s has me stumped. I'm sure though if true, a logical explanation will be forthcoming.

    Two lenses (among some others) that I keep hearing and reading about improved performance on the D800, is most notably with the Nikon the 24-120 f4 VR and to a somewhat lesser extent, the Nikon 28-300 f3.5-5.6 G lens. Some know I am not the biggest fan of the 24-120 f4 VR when samples were tested on a D700/D3s...but just looking at what I observed here from those kind enough to post their images from this lens mounted onto a D800/D800E, it certainly looks promising and a lens I wouldn't necessarily dismiss as a walk around lens (when used on the D800).

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 9th May 2012 at 11:19.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    I posted a question on DPR to see if anyone had actual experience of both the Zeiss 25 F2 and the Nikon 24 F1.4 on the D800. I got the following useful opinion, the only one I have found anywhere from someone who has tried both:

    "I've had both lenses until last week. After trying them on the D800, I kept the 24/1.4G and sold the ZF 25/2. Well they are both excellent, but the one weakness of the 25/2 has been weak corners, especially at distance, even when stopped down. It was tolerable on the D700 but on the D800 I just didn't like it. The 24/1.4G is still superb on 36MP. It does have a flaw which is lateral CA, it has much more of that than the Zeiss which is very clean. But lateral CA is very easy to remove in post, unlike soft corners."

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    So then based on that assumption the Nikon 24/1.4G is the way to go..
    Now I have to decide whether to take delivery on a D800 or keep waiting for my D800/E order to come through amazon.
    Reading all of Lloyd's info on the D800-D800/E my take away is of course get the /E version, yet with good sharpening in post, the D800 comes very close to the /E.
    Can anyone else confirm this?

    Glen, in regards to the zeiss 35/2, is it your opinion that it does do well on the D800, besides CA?

    Steven
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    So then based on that assumption the Nikon 24/1.4G is the way to go..
    Now I have to decide whether to take delivery on a D800 or keep waiting for my D800/E order to come through amazon.
    Reading all of Lloyd's info on the D800-D800/E my take away is of course get the /E version, yet with good sharpening in post, the D800 comes very close to the /E.
    Can anyone else confirm this?

    Glen, in regards to the zeiss 35/2, is it your opinion that it does do well on the D800, besides CA?

    Steven
    Steve I will shoot it again to see if I notice any change from the D3X . I use the 35/2 as a street shooting alternative ...so my primary values are handling and size (assuming all of the alternatives have excellent overall IQ) . In street shooting I would shoot at F5.6 which is not much of a test for these lenses ..they will all appear well corrected and have great sharpness. The 35/2 is a high contrast ,very sharp formula ...so if you want a somewhat bitting sharpness ..its excellent . The normal complaints are that the bokeh is somewhat clinical .

    I think the 35/1.4G nikon lenses is better all around because of the AF and integration with the camera features . But its more expensive and has a different character .

    lloyd just tested the 24/1.4G on the D800 and its more impressive than I remember ...I need to give it another shot .

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Yea just read Lloyd's confirms what I have been saying on the 24 1.4g. It's a keeper
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Jack

    I found the 50 to have lower contrast and weaker color than the newer 85/35/24. Maybe you are correcting this in post . I am sensitive to the color depth in the blue channel . The zeiss and the newer G lenses have stronger blues ..which of course is more visible around the ocean.

    Solving the 50 choice is on my list .
    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    Pffewww.... finally I see someone else that is noticing the same. I often go out with only the 35 and the 50 in my bag (I prefer the bag as small as possible when that is possible). Everytime I am surprised on the difference in color rendering and contrast between the 35 and 50. Nice to hear I am not the only one seeing this.
    So as not to hijack, for further discussion on this topic I have initiated a new thread with some f1.4 lens comparisons here: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/...tml#post415686
    Jack
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    does anyone know where to find the zeiss 21 2.8ZF2 in stock?
    Ive decided to buy it, but now it is out of stock in any store I know.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    I went to New Orleans few weeks ago and spent almost every night on the Bourbon ST listening to Jazz music. Two lenses I used almost all the time were 24 and 50mm f/1.4 G. The AF of 24mm is very fast but 50mm is much slower. Both of them were very fun to use.
    I only used f/1.4 with variable ISO but mainly 1600 with handholding and no flash. Optic quality and AF impressed me. I think I will sell the 24-70mm and buy 35mm f/1.4 G.
    The print with my Epson 4900 was very beautiful.
    Pramote

    24mm, f/1.4G, ISO 1600, f/1.4, 1/40 sec

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E



    This was shoot by the 50mm f/1.4G, the cheapest lens for its quality.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo View Post
    does anyone know where to find the zeiss 21 2.8ZF2 in stock?
    Ive decided to buy it, but now it is out of stock in any store I know.
    Just received one yesterday from B&H. Ordered it just a couple of days before. B&H seems to have it in stock more often than some of the other online retailers. I'd check daily.
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    This was shoot by the 50mm f/1.4G, the cheapest lens for its quality.
    I agree. I love mine. For the price and size, it's a keeper. It has its faults, as pointed out in this thread, but is a good "vacation lens".
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    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Just received one yesterday from B&H. Ordered it just a couple of days before. B&H seems to have it in stock more often than some of the other online retailers. I'd check daily.
    thanks. I will do it.
    Gustavo.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    I agree. I love mine. For the price and size, it's a keeper. It has its faults, as pointed out in this thread, but is a good "vacation lens".
    +! !!! For the money, IMHO it's a no-brainer lens!
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Hi Guys

    Thank's for all good infos here.
    Is anybody here get a zeiss 35 1,4 (or 35 f/2) to test with d800 (E)? Even if the 35 Nik G seems good, i'd like to see some "tests" to compare with.
    I'd prefer to stay with zeiss to keep uniformity for my personal work (100 Macro, 21) and keep all the nikon (zooms, pc-e & some primes) mostly for pro work.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    In general the Zeiss glass usually does a couple things diffrent . One is contrast usually a little more and mostly warmer tones, also with contrast you will see a little saturation boost. So yes they will render diffrent out of the can. Resolving power some are great at it and some are not better than some of the good Nikons . Also you may see a little less aberrations in the glass. This is in general are they the magic bullet is the question. In the older days I would probably say yes here since I was a nut case on this. Today what I'm seeing out of these new G lenses I would come back to depends on the lenses in question. The Gs are very very good now. The Zeiss 21 will stand above the rest but after that it's a lens per lens basis. Not like the old days. I guess I'm saying here I would not get so hung up on having Zeiss glass. I'm giving Nikon a lot of credit here which coming from me is rare especcially from years past.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    In general the Zeiss glass usually does a couple things diffrent . One is contrast usually a little more and mostly warmer tones, also with contrast you will see a little saturation boost. So yes they will render diffrent out of the can. Resolving power some are great at it and some are not better than some of the good Nikons . Also you may see a little less aberrations in the glass. This is in general are they the magic bullet is the question. In the older days I would probably say yes here since I was a nut case on this. Today what I'm seeing out of these new G lenses I would come back to depends on the lenses in question. The Gs are very very good now. The Zeiss 21 will stand above the rest but after that it's a lens per lens basis. Not like the old days. I guess I'm saying here I would not get so hung up on having Zeiss glass. I'm giving Nikon a lot of credit here which coming from me is rare especcially from years past.
    Could not have been said or explained better Guy! I agree, it really is on a case by case basis, not only what body the lenses will be used on (which can make a distinct difference) but also you intended use of a particular lens. Closer-up portrait? Landscape? Reportage? General All-rounder? This too would determine which lens in a particular focal length might best be suited for the job. Addtionally, it's not only the resolution and sharpness across the frame but as Guy pointed out, the "look" of each lens too.

    Regarding the 35mm focal length on the D800...I cannot speak specifically to their use on that body , but have used and tested both the Zeiss 35mm f2 and Nikon 35mm f1.4 on a D700/D3s and commented earlier in post in this thread, a few posts above, about these two exceptional lenses. For distant landscape use, I personally would select the Zeiss, especially for its sharpness across the frame and ability to reolve details ...but for other types of photography, I would most definitely consider the Nikon, not only for it's speed, but it's "look" and at times prsents a slightly more delicate and appealing image for certain subjects, yet also has good central resolution which picks up steam as you stop down. The Zeiss 35mm f1.4 is a beast in terms of physical size and I've only heard exceptionally good things about it, but cannot personally comment since I haven't shot with it.

    Hmmm, the choice between the Zeiss and Nikon is maybe a lot like ordering a hamburger...I'd really like both fries and onion rings, but know I can only have one....LOL!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Sorry if I posted this before ..but I have most of the Zeiss and all of the Nikon primes being discussed . I don t have the 35/1.4 ZF ..yet ! Guy summary is consistent with my experience .

    Overall the zeiss are higher contrast lenses and they all have a consistent depth in the colors . They are extremely well matched (as the same formulas are used for much of the cinema sets ) . The initial ZF set ...25/2.8,28/2,35/2,50/1.4 and the 85/1.4 all have higher levels of aberrations .. a positive take would be that they have different personalities that vary considerably by aperture and distance . For example wide open and close the 50 /1.4 isn t nearly as sharp as it is at 5.6 or at distance .

    The two macros(50/100) were designed for top resolution in near focus distances ...they have long throws making macro great and field work tedious . The 100/2 is one of the best lenses ever (IMO) for high IQ. I don not enjoy either of these lenses because of the long throw . Their bokeh is abrupt which I don t like .

    The 21/2.8 Zf is in a class by itself and I consider it the best all around wide angle below 35 mm for a DSLR . It has a wow factor that makes you happy you have it .

    The 28/2 ,35/2 and 85/1.4 are all great for street shooting ..very short throw fast to focus and I get a high contrast view on a Nikon Pro body . I have decades of experience in manual focusing a SLR and still have near perfect eyes ...probably not relevant for most photographers . Most would be better served with the G glass.

    Prior to the new G nano coated primes ..I wouldn t touch the Nikon primes because of the lower contrast and funky yellow tint ..but the new G primes closed the gap and offer alternative character (in the eye of the beholder) . I still favor the Zeiss but you lose the fantastic AF capabilities of the new bodies and getting it in focus matters . For money its the Nikkors and AF all the way ..for character and brilliance I like the Zeiss glass.

    I find its not good to mix them too much as the look is enough different to mess up a collection ...but I am a believer in using a matched set of lenses and consistency in rendering . The newer Zeiss glass is being driven by the Cinema requirements so you need to understand the character of the lens . Zeiss does a great job of providing this on their website .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Well I was simplifying the summary to keep it, well simple .

    Going into a little more detail, bottom line is most barrel distortion in photographic lenses is simply 3rd order with a lower constant -- meaning more prominent mustache turn up would occur outside the field of view. The 20 is predominantly barrel with some light mustache toward the edges, the 18 far more pronounced. My point was more than Nikon seemed to favor the predominant barrel in their newer designs of fast wides like the 24/1.4 and 35/1.4. The more highly corrected 3rd order wides like those from Zeiss, tend to flare more due primarily to a higher number of internal elements; more internal elements = more reflective surfaces = increased opportunities to generate flare.

    Ex: The Nikkor 20 AF-D is 12 elements in 9 groups with total barrel distortion of around 2.25% (moderately high), the Zeiss 21 is 16 elements in 13 groups with total barrel distortion of around 1.7% (moderate). But the Z21 also shows much stronger mustache at the edges, which becomes really visible in a shot like an ocean horizon; moreover barrel is relatively easy to correct and mustache somewhat more difficult. Still an over simplification, but hopefully helps folks understand the basics of what's going on
    Jack

    I'm sure you remember the C/Y version of the 21 2.8 which was one of the all time highly rated wides and had mustache distortion at least as bad as the new Zeiss for Nikon. Some truly remarkable images were taken with this lens and some true "turds" as well. Learning a lens of this character is paramount but once learned it is something special.

    Woody

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    You know I have to brag slightly here since this was the real revolution of the famous Zeiss 21mm. Lots of sales went on after I posted this on Fred Miranda and honestly given what canon had in the 1DS days you can see why. This image I have to admit is the quintessential Zeiss 21mm shot. So I do have the tag grandaddy of the Zeiss 21mm and bolting in on the 1DS with a adapter. Today its the same formula as it was back than and I'm guessing 5/6 years ago. But obviously they actually made a mount for Canon and Nikon. Have no idea where they thought of that one. Okay I'm entitled to brag once a year , my 15 minutes of fame are over see ya next year. So there. ROTFLMAO

    Falcon Biz Jet I think a Falcon 900B. There is some photoshop in this but the detail is real. LOL

    Took awhile to find this again. Man love to reshoot this with my tech cam now and my 28mm which equals a 18mm on my sensor

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Hmmm I should maybe straighten out a few lines, now that photoshop can do it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You know I have to brag slightly here since this was the real revolution of the famous Zeiss 21mm. Lots of sales went on after I posted this on Fred Miranda and honestly given what canon had in the 1DS days you can see why. This image I have to admit is the quintessential Zeiss 21mm shot. So I do have the tag grandaddy of the Zeiss 21mm and bolting in on the 1DS with a adapter. Today its the same formula as it was back than and I'm guessing 5/6 years ago. But obviously they actually made a mount for Canon and Nikon. Have no idea where they thought of that one. Okay I'm entitled to brag once a year , my 15 minutes of fame are over see ya next year. So there. ROTFLMAO

    Falcon Biz Jet I think a Falcon 900B. There is some photoshop in this but the detail is real. LOL

    Took awhile to find this again. Man love to reshoot this with my tech cam now and my 28mm which equals a 18mm on my sensor
    Guy, are you certain this isn't a shot of a video arcade game? Oh I know...it's a screen shot of Microsoft flight simulator?? LOL! Sure looks like it!

    Actually a really cool and well done shot. The level of detail. especially considering the camera and era it was taken, are exceptional! A testiment to the Zeiss 21mm....and of course the photographer himself!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 13th May 2012 at 05:24.

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    How does the ZF.2 18mm compare to the 21? I know the 21 is a better lens by all accounts, but I like the 18 focal length more... And the 18 is a little shorter and lighter, which is appealing. So what, more exactly, are the tradeoffs here?

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    How does the ZF.2 18mm compare to the 21? I know the 21 is a better lens by all accounts, but I like the 18 focal length more... And the 18 is a little shorter and lighter, which is appealing. So what, more exactly, are the tradeoffs here?
    Jan,

    I used both lenses briefly and simultaneously as I generally prefer 18mm to 21. The 21mm as noted is a sharper lens and if one was critical and had exacting needs for the sharpest wide angle lens in this range, regarding edge to edge sharpness at most camera to subject distances, the 21mm won hands down. The 18mm is no slouch either, but it didn't have the "bite" the 21mm had although it's look is similar. I also felt at the more open apertures, the 18mm was softer on the edges and corners. I had to keep reminding myself thought that I was comparing the 18mm to one of the best wide angle lenses in 35mm format and for the 18 to keep competitive says a lot about it. The 18mm is a very good to excellent lens, the 21mm is exceptional and almost in a class by itself.


    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    I was wondering if we would see the cockpit picture again!
    I was so impressed, I got the lens and took this with my then new (and still in use) Canon 1DsII


    And without the "character"



    I'm not sure, but I think I prefer it with the distortion. BTW: These are full color shots. No sneaky orange selective saturation. It was just a very B+W day.

    --Matt
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Don't shave the mustache
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Ditto, especially since it didn't seem to get it all cleared up anyway. Great image Matt!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Guy and Jack,

    Thank you! That one (the uncorrected version!) hung on the wall till it was replaced by Death Valley pictures

    --Matt

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Matt didi you correct the last one with ACR auto correction?

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    It was PTLens. Lightroom won't correct a jpeg with that lens, and I had RAW turned off that morning by mistake. D'oh!

    --Matt

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    I think I'll give the ZF.2 18 a shot once I have a D800E in hand. It's possible that a little bit of sharpening can overcome loss of contrast in fine detail (similar to how Jack showed sharpening overcoming the D800 AA filter with a killer lens). I'd LOVE a reasonably compact 18 for when I don't want to carry the 14-24. The AF-D 20 is another possibility, but I'd still prefer an 18 over a 20...

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It was PTLens. Lightroom won't correct a jpeg with that lens, and I had RAW turned off that morning by mistake. D'oh!

    --Matt
    Take a RAW shot of a print of the JPEG... with a Zeiss Makro Planar 100....

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    I think I'll give the ZF.2 18 a shot once I have a D800E in hand. It's possible that a little bit of sharpening can overcome loss of contrast in fine detail (similar to how Jack showed sharpening overcoming the D800 AA filter with a killer lens). I'd LOVE a reasonably compact 18 for when I don't want to carry the 14-24. The AF-D 20 is another possibility, but I'd still prefer an 18 over a 20...
    Jan, that's exactly why I got the Zeiss 18mm at the time. It was for when I didn't want to take the 14-24 when I had to use a fast single focal length 24mm. The 18mm provided proper spacing between the focal lengths 18
    & 24mm..the 2o/21mm didn't.

    Keep in mind my coments comparing the Zeiss 18mm and Zeiss 21mm were when used on D700/D3s bodies. How the Zeiss 18mm performs on the D800, I don't know yet.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Guy,
    I don’t know anything about Zeiss 21mm, I don’t know anything
    about Canon and Nikon, and I don’t know anything about Falcon 900B,
    but I know it’s really a great shot and you did a great job.
    Thanks for sharing and showing us the capabilities of a good lens in a good hand.
    ________
    Manouch

  50. #100
    Workshop & Subscriber Member manouch shirzad's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

    Matt,
    Thanks for posting this picture, I also like it with the mustache.
    You know how much I like this picture, and I’m ready to barter it with a few of my pictures.
    No kidding, I’m serious!
    _______
    Manouch

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