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Zeiss 21 2.8 on D800/E

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Sorry if I posted this before ..but I have most of the Zeiss and all of the Nikon primes being discussed . I don t have the 35/1.4 ZF ..yet ! Guy summary is consistent with my experience .

Overall the zeiss are higher contrast lenses and they all have a consistent depth in the colors . They are extremely well matched (as the same formulas are used for much of the cinema sets ) . The initial ZF set ...25/2.8,28/2,35/2,50/1.4 and the 85/1.4 all have higher levels of aberrations .. a positive take would be that they have different personalities that vary considerably by aperture and distance . For example wide open and close the 50 /1.4 isn t nearly as sharp as it is at 5.6 or at distance .

The two macros(50/100) were designed for top resolution in near focus distances ...they have long throws making macro great and field work tedious . The 100/2 is one of the best lenses ever (IMO) for high IQ. I don not enjoy either of these lenses because of the long throw . Their bokeh is abrupt which I don t like .

The 21/2.8 Zf is in a class by itself and I consider it the best all around wide angle below 35 mm for a DSLR . It has a wow factor that makes you happy you have it .

The 28/2 ,35/2 and 85/1.4 are all great for street shooting ..very short throw fast to focus and I get a high contrast view on a Nikon Pro body . I have decades of experience in manual focusing a SLR and still have near perfect eyes ...probably not relevant for most photographers . Most would be better served with the G glass.

Prior to the new G nano coated primes ..I wouldn t touch the Nikon primes because of the lower contrast and funky yellow tint ..but the new G primes closed the gap and offer alternative character (in the eye of the beholder) . I still favor the Zeiss but you lose the fantastic AF capabilities of the new bodies and getting it in focus matters . For money its the Nikkors and AF all the way ..for character and brilliance I like the Zeiss glass.

I find its not good to mix them too much as the look is enough different to mess up a collection ...but I am a believer in using a matched set of lenses and consistency in rendering . The newer Zeiss glass is being driven by the Cinema requirements so you need to understand the character of the lens . Zeiss does a great job of providing this on their website .
 

woodyspedden

New member
Well I was simplifying the summary to keep it, well simple :).

Going into a little more detail, bottom line is most barrel distortion in photographic lenses is simply 3rd order with a lower constant -- meaning more prominent mustache turn up would occur outside the field of view. The 20 is predominantly barrel with some light mustache toward the edges, the 18 far more pronounced. My point was more than Nikon seemed to favor the predominant barrel in their newer designs of fast wides like the 24/1.4 and 35/1.4. The more highly corrected 3rd order wides like those from Zeiss, tend to flare more due primarily to a higher number of internal elements; more internal elements = more reflective surfaces = increased opportunities to generate flare.

Ex: The Nikkor 20 AF-D is 12 elements in 9 groups with total barrel distortion of around 2.25% (moderately high), the Zeiss 21 is 16 elements in 13 groups with total barrel distortion of around 1.7% (moderate). But the Z21 also shows much stronger mustache at the edges, which becomes really visible in a shot like an ocean horizon; moreover barrel is relatively easy to correct and mustache somewhat more difficult. Still an over simplification, but hopefully helps folks understand the basics of what's going on :eek:
Jack

I'm sure you remember the C/Y version of the 21 2.8 which was one of the all time highly rated wides and had mustache distortion at least as bad as the new Zeiss for Nikon. Some truly remarkable images were taken with this lens and some true "turds" as well. Learning a lens of this character is paramount but once learned it is something special.

Woody
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
You know I have to brag slightly here since this was the real revolution of the famous Zeiss 21mm. Lots of sales went on after I posted this on Fred Miranda and honestly given what canon had in the 1DS days you can see why. This image I have to admit is the quintessential Zeiss 21mm shot. So I do have the tag grandaddy of the Zeiss 21mm and bolting in on the 1DS with a adapter. Today its the same formula as it was back than and I'm guessing 5/6 years ago. But obviously they actually made a mount for Canon and Nikon. Have no idea where they thought of that one. Okay I'm entitled to brag once a year , my 15 minutes of fame are over see ya next year. So there. ROTFLMAO

Falcon Biz Jet I think a Falcon 900B. There is some photoshop in this but the detail is real. LOL

Took awhile to find this again. Man love to reshoot this with my tech cam now and my 28mm which equals a 18mm on my sensor

 

D&A

Well-known member
You know I have to brag slightly here since this was the real revolution of the famous Zeiss 21mm. Lots of sales went on after I posted this on Fred Miranda and honestly given what canon had in the 1DS days you can see why. This image I have to admit is the quintessential Zeiss 21mm shot. So I do have the tag grandaddy of the Zeiss 21mm and bolting in on the 1DS with a adapter. Today its the same formula as it was back than and I'm guessing 5/6 years ago. But obviously they actually made a mount for Canon and Nikon. Have no idea where they thought of that one. Okay I'm entitled to brag once a year , my 15 minutes of fame are over see ya next year. So there. ROTFLMAO

Falcon Biz Jet I think a Falcon 900B. There is some photoshop in this but the detail is real. LOL

Took awhile to find this again. Man love to reshoot this with my tech cam now and my 28mm which equals a 18mm on my sensor
Guy, are you certain this isn't a shot of a video arcade game? Oh I know...it's a screen shot of Microsoft flight simulator?? LOL! Sure looks like it! :)

Actually a really cool and well done shot. The level of detail. especially considering the camera and era it was taken, are exceptional! A testiment to the Zeiss 21mm....and of course the photographer himself!

Dave (D&A)
 
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Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
How does the ZF.2 18mm compare to the 21? I know the 21 is a better lens by all accounts, but I like the 18 focal length more... And the 18 is a little shorter and lighter, which is appealing. So what, more exactly, are the tradeoffs here?
 

D&A

Well-known member
How does the ZF.2 18mm compare to the 21? I know the 21 is a better lens by all accounts, but I like the 18 focal length more... And the 18 is a little shorter and lighter, which is appealing. So what, more exactly, are the tradeoffs here?
Jan,

I used both lenses briefly and simultaneously as I generally prefer 18mm to 21. The 21mm as noted is a sharper lens and if one was critical and had exacting needs for the sharpest wide angle lens in this range, regarding edge to edge sharpness at most camera to subject distances, the 21mm won hands down. The 18mm is no slouch either, but it didn't have the "bite" the 21mm had although it's look is similar. I also felt at the more open apertures, the 18mm was softer on the edges and corners. I had to keep reminding myself thought that I was comparing the 18mm to one of the best wide angle lenses in 35mm format and for the 18 to keep competitive says a lot about it. The 18mm is a very good to excellent lens, the 21mm is exceptional and almost in a class by itself.


Dave (D&A)
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I was wondering if we would see the cockpit picture again!
I was so impressed, I got the lens and took this with my then new (and still in use) Canon 1DsII


And without the "character"



I'm not sure, but I think I prefer it with the distortion. BTW: These are full color shots. No sneaky orange selective saturation. It was just a very B+W day.

--Matt
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Ditto, especially since it didn't seem to get it all cleared up anyway. Great image Matt!
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Guy and Jack,

Thank you! That one (the uncorrected version!) hung on the wall till it was replaced by Death Valley pictures :ROTFL:

--Matt
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
It was PTLens. Lightroom won't correct a jpeg with that lens, and I had RAW turned off that morning by mistake. D'oh!

--Matt
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
I think I'll give the ZF.2 18 a shot once I have a D800E in hand. It's possible that a little bit of sharpening can overcome loss of contrast in fine detail (similar to how Jack showed sharpening overcoming the D800 AA filter with a killer lens). I'd LOVE a reasonably compact 18 for when I don't want to carry the 14-24. The AF-D 20 is another possibility, but I'd still prefer an 18 over a 20...
 

D&A

Well-known member
I think I'll give the ZF.2 18 a shot once I have a D800E in hand. It's possible that a little bit of sharpening can overcome loss of contrast in fine detail (similar to how Jack showed sharpening overcoming the D800 AA filter with a killer lens). I'd LOVE a reasonably compact 18 for when I don't want to carry the 14-24. The AF-D 20 is another possibility, but I'd still prefer an 18 over a 20...
Jan, that's exactly why I got the Zeiss 18mm at the time. It was for when I didn't want to take the 14-24 when I had to use a fast single focal length 24mm. The 18mm provided proper spacing between the focal lengths 18
& 24mm..the 2o/21mm didn't.

Keep in mind my coments comparing the Zeiss 18mm and Zeiss 21mm were when used on D700/D3s bodies. How the Zeiss 18mm performs on the D800, I don't know yet.

Dave (D&A)
 

manouch shirzad

Workshop & Subscriber Member
Guy,
I don’t know anything about Zeiss 21mm, I don’t know anything
about Canon and Nikon, and I don’t know anything about Falcon 900B,
but I know it’s really a great shot and you did a great job.
Thanks for sharing and showing us the capabilities of a good lens in a good hand.
________
Manouch
 

manouch shirzad

Workshop & Subscriber Member
Matt,
Thanks for posting this picture, I also like it with the mustache.
You know how much I like this picture, and I’m ready to barter it with a few of my pictures.
No kidding, I’m serious!
_______
Manouch
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jan, that's exactly why I got the Zeiss 18mm at the time. It was for when I didn't want to take the 14-24 when I had to use a fast single focal length 24mm. The 18mm provided proper spacing between the focal lengths 18
& 24mm..the 2o/21mm didn't.

Keep in mind my coments comparing the Zeiss 18mm and Zeiss 21mm were when used on D700/D3s bodies. How the Zeiss 18mm performs on the D800, I don't know yet.

Dave (D&A)
I'm planing on the Zeiss 18 myself as soon as I get everything straighten out with my Phase back.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Matt,
Thanks for posting this picture, I also like it with the mustache.
You know how much I like this picture, and I’m ready to barter it with a few of my pictures.
No kidding, I’m serious!
_______
Manouch
Oh, you definitely have a deal there, Manouch.

Thank you!

Matt
 
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