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Thread: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I saw that Jack has this and his seemed good. I got one today and mine looks like a terrible copy. I only had time to fire off about ten handheld and AF frames at F2.8 and 5.6 to compare them and they are really disastrous: not very sharp at all on centre and even at f5.6, smeary and nasty at edges and corners with, get this, ORANGE fringing where you'd normally expect purple.

    I'm going to run it through some tests tomorrow possibly on the D800 as well as the E just in case there's a difference (seems very unlikely) and using Live View to focus but so far, though I like the FOV and though I can imagine some interesting creative uses for the smeariness, it seems that this one is a pup.

    But Jack knows his glass... so I assume I just have a bad copy or it needs fine tuning.

    Anyone else got one?

    Tim

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Tim, This is not going to really add much to your question and observations, but I have used various copies on and off for last decade. Some were borrowed copies and I had a couple of my own. On various DSLR's, it was a one of those lenses that at times was just "OK" , to something a bit more. None of the copies I shot with were "dogs", but neither did any blow my socks off. Simply compentent is the best was I can describe what I observed. I know two pros that always have one in the bag and really like it, and some other shooters that have found it "meh". So I can't say much about your particular copy, but getting a hold of at least one more, will confirm if there are issues with yours. I'm sure others can chime in on their experiences.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    "Competent" is a great description of my 20. For right now I like it because there's nothing better in AF at that size. Plus it's a decent performer -- excellent centrally but corners on the D800 never get what you'd call "crisp." Fortunately for my uses, the corners in really wide shots are not all that important. Another aspect I like about it is its resistance to flare.

    Tim, it sounds like you got a real dog. I'd return it and try another one.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I rented the 20/2.8 AF-d from lens rental, it was not to bad, but I shot it at F8
    I may purchase one, still not sure yet, though for my use I would only use it when shooting vertical and for sure use the 5:4 crop mode because I don't like 3:2 for vertical images and would crop of the marginal corners.
    Curious on why the older AIS version is more expensive and what I have read is that the af-d version is the same optical formula.

    Steven
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I've had various copies of all of Nikon's 20's. The best, one copy of the 52mm f/3.5 was only 'OK'. The 2.8's, both mf and af, didn't quite reach that. During that time, I've always had Leica 21's and the difference has always been huge.

    Henning

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Thanks everyone, very useful to hear the feedback. I have tested mine more extensively today and as a walk around it seems fine: it has pretty accurate AF and is nicely sharp on centre, acceptable, especially at 50% zoom, on the left hand edge and oddly, sometimes acceptable on the right but most often soft until F11, which is less than ideal.

    Some frames, however, with more or less planar subjects, have acceptable right hand edges. I think this is an interaction between a spherical issue, DOF and a mild decentering which, taken together, make it behave apparently inconsistently. It's going back but if I can get a replacement that behaves more evenly, I'll keep it because it is so light and because I quite like its sleazy edges and sharp centre wide open. Quite dreamy-like.

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Tested one years ago, but sent it back for the reason you exposed. (could not
    afford being dreamy, on the plane..)
    Elmarit 19 type II ? Waiting the d800 for conclusion, but seems to be a strong
    personality. (visible distortion corrected in ACR with Zeiss 18 profile)
    Sergio

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Trouble is, I have some manual focus lenses for the 800s and I really want something AF which is wide, fast and small and doesn't render like the bottom of a coke bottle!

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Hi there
    No I just got it on yesterday on my just unpacked D800E.
    20/2.8 D iso 200, 1/200, f. 5.6. Opened with and tried to do it in C1.
    Just an amateur, sorry.
    Best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    100% crop
    Thorkil

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Tim,

    THis is a flare test shot I did with the 20 when I first got it. It isn't the greatest test image for resolution, but if you look at the grasses in the foreground, I think it gives you a basic idea of how it performs -- it does exhibit curvature toward the corners which IMHO is a benefit with wide angles. Note that corners do go notably soft at 100%, but not enough they detract from a typical print. I would say net/net, it is pretty comparable to my 24-120 at 24 if that helps.

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Thanks Jack,

    I did like the flare resistance of my copy but I'm afraid that though I could live with it being very very fuzzy at the edges wide open (could even have used it creatively, it looks quite nice) the edges did not sharpen up by f5.6 and the right was softer than the left. I would LOVE a good copy of this lens if a good copy is sharp to the edges at mid apertures.

    What do you think of this: full sized copy here. Shot at F5.6 and focus on the door handles in LV. I applied lens corrections but not CA corrections, so as to show the very odd orange fringing around the pipework left. I also applied standard D800E sharpening in LR4 of 80/0.7/60/20






    and this one shows how at F5.6 it was pretty useless for landscapes at the edges...

    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v46/p148599425.jpg

    So I guess I'm asking, does a good copy do a lot better than this?
    Last edited by tashley; 25th May 2012 at 13:36.

  13. #13
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Tim,

    My copy looks just about identical to your copy on the right edge, but my left edge equals the right where yours goes pretty bad/sucky. You definitely need a different copy, that one is decentered.

    Hope that helps,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    not sure if this plays into this thread, but I was reading over at at Stephen Gandy Cameraquest website and he says that actually the nikon AI lenses and not the AI-S lenses are preferred. AI lens were manufactured better.
    Trying to find a good copy of a Nikon 20 can be quite a task.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Orror, Tim.
    Disclaimer: I have no interests in, and no connection with Wetzlar...

    Elmarit r 19 examples at 5,6 (but 2,8 is just slightly worst on corners). Exterior and interior taken with D700, but the lens generates lots of moire on selected repetitive pattern particulars also on the 54 MP equivalent nex 7. (full size jpg
    on Flickr)


    DSC_6253 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr


    DSC_6212 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    In my very limited experience, even the 17-35 2,8 was much better than the 20, and i seem to remember that Hogan confirmed my impression.

    The lens has a few quirks (must be slightly modified to clear the mirror on Nikons)but I think
    that the words that you used to describe the rendering of the summicron would be adeguated in this case also.

    Ciao.
    Sergio

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Thanks everyone!
    @Jack, that copy has gone back... And I'm going to try the 28 1.8 as my fast light wide... But if I ever see a copy of the 20 2.8 second hand in a shop I'll try it for size because I loved th FOV.

    @ Sergio, that does look really nice but I need an AF lens for this use... :-(

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    In my very limited experience, even the 17-35 2,8 was much better than the 20, and i seem to remember that Hogan confirmed my impression.

    Ciao.
    Sergio
    Agreed...good samples of the 17-35 f2.8 often outperformed the 20mm f2.8 Af-D at 20mm. Both wide open, the edges/corners were somewhat better with the 17-35, but upon stopping down to f5.6, the zoom was generally superior. Yet the 17-35 is really no substitute for the 20mm as a small take along lens...just look at the size difference

    I too have been curious about the new 28mm f1.8. So far I've heard mixed things about the look of the images from this lens. Guess time will tell.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Re the 28/1.8, just got notified my local dealer has one on hold for me. I am going to go look at it today. I am on the fence because I already have the 35/1.4 and like it. The 28/1.8 is relatively inexpensive though at $699 retail.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Look out for that slightly fuzzy zone on the thirds that I have noticed from to different sets of samples I've seen posted. I have one on order anyway but would love to hear how you feel about it...

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio lovisolo View Post
    Orror, Tim.
    Disclaimer: I have no interests in, and no connection with Wetzlar...

    Elmarit r 19 examples at 5,6 (but 2,8 is just slightly worst on corners). Exterior and interior taken with D700, but the lens generates lots of moire on selected repetitive pattern particulars also on the 54 MP equivalent nex 7.

    DSC_6212 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

    Ciao.
    Sergio
    Hi Sergio
    I'm afraid, but on a D800/E it would be impossible to take such a pictures and achieve an acceptable DOF. Then one should use f.11 or 16 and diffractions will spoil it....hmm..and in that area the 700 would turn out to be a better choise.
    But apart from that, do you know who will do such machinering at the buttom of a R 19mm? If one should come acros one. Did you buy it that way?
    Must say, it just look splendid.
    Best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Hi Sergio
    I'm afraid, but on a D800/E it would be impossible to take such a pictures and achieve an acceptable DOF. Then one should use f.11 or 16 and diffractions will spoil it....hmm..and in that area the 700 would turn out to be a better choise.
    But apart from that, do you know who will do such machinering at the buttom of a R 19mm? If one should come acros one. Did you buy it that way?
    Must say, it just look splendid.
    Best
    Thorkil
    Hi Thorkil,
    I use the lens also with the nex7, and aside from the fact that corner and side borders are out of focus (a nex7 fault)at f8 it out resolves the approx. virtual
    50 Mp of the sensor (moire notwistanding the AA filter on the nex).
    I modified the lens with a small flat file and a small vacuum cleaner, following leitax example:

    http://www.leitax.com/conversion/lei...ent/index.html

    But it can be also professionally modified

    Adriano Lolli

    Hope this helps.
    Regards.
    Sergio
    Last edited by sergio lovisolo; 2nd June 2012 at 22:15.

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Hi Sergio
    Thank you very much. Thats sound interesting. Perhaps it will be safe enough to do it myself (if I get one)and will just remind me of old times where I did some motorcycles-work.
    Your pictures with that lens just looks splendid. But they are rather expensive in the market, the R19. But of course when they are that good.
    But I will go with my 14-24G for a while even though its too huge and heavy.
    I have given the Nikkor 20/2.8D a try, but it just istn't good enough I think.
    (Looking forward to go to our house in San Zeno di Montagna i July with the 800E)
    Best
    Thorkil

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I should have a ZF.2 18/3.5 arrive this week... Will take it for a spin and post some shots when it gets here.
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    looking forward to that, and here is something about the Zeiss 21 meanwhile

    My Lenses Review: Carl Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 ZF Review
    (and
    http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews...-t-21mm-f28-zf

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Just got the camera this afternoon, took about 20 photos with the 20mm lens. Mind you, I have not AF tuned yet. However at 2.8 I think its unusable, although night pictures might be ok..? Much much sharper at F4, and a bit better again at 5.6. Well, heres one, 320th @5.6 ISO 400... straight from camera, resized only.


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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    It still looks a bit dark in the corners at f/5.6... or you have something in front that vignettes, like a hood.

    My feel of the ZF.2 18 is that it's a good lens around center at all apertures, but vignettes strongly wide open. The vignetting clears up as it's stopped down and as far as I can tell is gone at f/6.7. (I use half stops.) Corners and extreme edges (like the last 5%) never get super crisp, but are fine - just slightly soft even at the lens' best. It's hard to tell what they are like until stopped down a bit though since they're dark wide open. Beyond f/6.7 I see no improvement and all that changes up to f/13 is DoF. At f/16 there's an ever so slight loss of contrast due to diffraction. There is some chromatic aberration at all apertures, which is easily removed in post. Color is excellent, making for lovely results if you shoot in the right light. It can take a Lee filter holder (using an 82mm lens ring), but not a shade as well. It can use a wide Lee shade w/o a filter holder. (I don't have a WA shade with a slot; something I really need to correct at some point.)

    Basically, for me and my uses it's a keeper...

    It's nowhere near as good as the 21.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I am very happy with the ZF.2 18 and if straight lines are important found that PTLens seems to be about the best alternative I have tried. For me it is an f/8 lens and very nice at that.
    I did this as part of my arca-mostly kitchen shoot recently with touch-up by PTLens and CS6 lens correction for some keystone after tweaking with PTLens

    Hand held kitchen shot
    Attachment 60175

    In a walk-about amongst some brick walls (what else)

    Overview
    Attachment 60176

    Center crop
    Attachment 60177

    Corner crop
    Attachment 60178

    Nothing formal just some tests to see if I like the lens, and yes I do!
    -bob

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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    I have a D 800, waiting for a D800 E, but I must say the Zeiss 18mm looks like a real winner for the the kind of work I do. WOW!! 20"x30" at 240 dpi right out of the camera.
    Best of luck all!
    Dave
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    Re: Anyone got the 20mm F2.8 on D800?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    It still looks a bit dark in the corners at f/5.6... or you have something in front that vignettes, like a hood.
    Yes there is a lens hood attached in that picture.

    While on this subject of ultra-wides, I noticed Photo Video International, Christchurch NZ posted on their facebook page they got their first batch of Zeiss 15mm 2.8 ZF.2 on 14th June... Its not for me at the moment though...

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