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Thread: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    It's a subscription site so I won't blow his copyright but if anyone else here has joined up, take a look: he agrees with Jack about the differences between the d800 and the E.... And the details of his conclusion are intriguing...

  2. #2
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    You should know that Lloyd lives about 10 minutes away from me he and I have collaborated on gear and lens testing methodologies for about the last 10 years. While we did not specifically collaborate on the D800/E, we've shared many of our testing routines with each other over that period. Which is a long way around saying that basically Lloyd and I test gear in a very similar fashion so it is not surprising we'd reach the same conclusions here...

    I will reiterate the key point on why the D800 can achieve resolution results so close to the D800E: If the OLPF is perfectly designed to blur at or just below Nyquist for a given sensor, then proper deconvolution sharpening will remove essentially all of its effects. Because we can in fact achieve this result (or 99% of it) with D800 files, we conclude that the D800 OLPF is near perfect in its design.

    This in turn begs the question why would one buy the D800E? The answer is you might want it if you have a specialized application that can utilize it to max benefit (astro-photography is one such application that comes to mind). The downside is having to deal with doppler artifacts when the camera is used in normal situations.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member danielmoore's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    He does a good job of creating an accurate comparison. What I found interesting is that toggling between the D800/D800E 100% crops I was able to see a difference in 'presence' if you will. I suspect the accumulated D800E per pixel clarity bump creates a subtle but perceptible effect, which I'm content to call presence. For those who subscribe, try covering the labels and toggle the images, my guess is you'll like one better than the other, consistently, and it'll be the E. Note, I'm definitely not talking about sharpness here.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    The talk of added noise in the shadows with a little increase in sharpening on the D800 makes sense but given the noise floor is really good to begin with I would not give it to much thought unless maybe your in the high Iso ranges like 800. Personally I was not planning on the E version anyway and in a early post you need to remember Nikon designs for output out of camera with jpegs and the E will look sharper ( marketing ) but us raws shooters can achieve the same results in raw processing as both Jack and Lloyd have shown. Bottom line folks and I'll spell it out it's about marketing and extra revenue. But it's also well known raw shooters only are in a minority over jpeg shooters in 35mm format. That's always been the case. This is a totally diffrent design philosophy. Than MF where all the produce is RAW.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  5. #5
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Now... can I see some files that really "wow" me? I have a D800 sitting right here in front me (waiting on lenses to come in the mail... argg!) and I'm both excited and a bit unsure. Other than a few of Tim's 50 Cron shots, I've not seen much out of the camera that really wows me. Any of you guys have some more examples to post? I'll have my own examples to post in a few days.

    I've seen so many test shots... but I'm ready to start seeing some art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by danielmoore View Post
    He does a good job of creating an accurate comparison. What I found interesting is that toggling between the D800/D800E 100% crops I was able to see a difference in 'presence' if you will. I suspect the accumulated D800E per pixel clarity bump creates a subtle but perceptible effect, which I'm content to call presence. For those who subscribe, try covering the labels and toggle the images, my guess is you'll like one better than the other, consistently, and it'll be the E. Note, I'm definitely not talking about sharpness here.

    if Lloyd added a touch of clarity which it looks he did not you would see the mid contrast jump a little which will give you that look.

    Bottom line as a raw shooter and good raw processor you can do just about anything.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Now... can I see some files that really "wow" me? I have a D800 sitting right here in front me (waiting on lenses to come in the mail... argg!) and I'm both excited and a bit unsure. Other than a few of Tim's 50 Cron shots, I've not seen much out of the camera that really wows me. Any of you guys have some more examples to post? I'll have my own examples to post in a few days.

    I've seen so many test shots... but I'm ready to start seeing some art.
    I need to get out and shoot some Art myself. I'm a little tired of freaking test shooting. I'm loaded for bear now need ROAD TRIP
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Now... can I see some files that really "wow" me? I have a D800 sitting right here in front me (waiting on lenses to come in the mail... argg!) and I'm both excited and a bit unsure. Other than a few of Tim's 50 Cron shots, I've not seen much out of the camera that really wows me. Any of you guys have some more examples to post? I'll have my own examples to post in a few days.

    I've seen so many test shots... but I'm ready to start seeing some art.
    Me too...

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Agree. I did exactly what you did, blocking out which was which regarding camera and came to the same conclusion. But all my cameras I shoot with are without AA filters so I'm used to that "look". I have the 800e on backorder. Eleanor

    Quote Originally Posted by danielmoore View Post
    He does a good job of creating an accurate comparison. What I found interesting is that toggling between the D800/D800E 100% crops I was able to see a difference in 'presence' if you will. I suspect the accumulated D800E per pixel clarity bump creates a subtle but perceptible effect, which I'm content to call presence. For those who subscribe, try covering the labels and toggle the images, my guess is you'll like one better than the other, consistently, and it'll be the E. Note, I'm definitely not talking about sharpness here.

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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    It's a subscription site so I won't blow his copyright...
    To be fair, most TV, film, radio shows, books, magazines, technical manuals, website content etc. are copyrighted - whether they are freely available or paid-for - but it's not intended to stop discussion of the contents, rather the verbatim recycling of material for personal gain, be it financial or otherwise. Since that's not your, or anyone else's, intention here, I don't see any restraint on you discussing what Digilloyd has to say, or indeed what the author of any other article in a paid subscription website, magazine etc. has to say come to that.

    Of course, if Digilloyd had a clause in the 'sign-up' small print that says something along the lines of 'I can only discuss what you say with other subscribers oh supreme leader' then you may have a point. Might be unconstitutional though.

  11. #11
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    I think the point is that Tim wasn't going to do what some people do which is to literally quote Lloyd's content directly in a copy/paste.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Diglloyd tests back up Jack's conclusion...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Me too...

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Wonderful Tim, but....the dead pheasant?
    (waiting for the bw conversion)

    Sergio

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