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D800/E and Leica R Lenses

robsteve

Subscriber
I tired a comparison on the two lenses at f2 and in regards to bokeh, there is very little difference. The Summicron may go out of focus a bit quicker near the subject, but in the big picture, they look similar.

There was a bit of wind that blew the leaves around and knocked the ball off between shots. I cropped the wider 85mm shot to be about the same scene as the 90mm. The camera was on manual and the Nikkor seemed to expose a bit lighter than the Summicron. I reduced the exposure on the 85mm by about 2/10ths of a stop to get similar exposure to the Summicron. Both shots were at the same white balance.


This is the Nikkor at f2.





The Summicron at f2.





Here are the crops. I focused on the surface of the ball. The Nikkor is clearly the better overall lens with the exception of colour rendering, which I prefer on the Summicron.


The Nikkor image crop at 100%.




The Summicron image crop at 100%.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
I tired a comparison on the two lenses at f2 and in regards to bokeh, there is very little difference. The Summicron may go out of focus a bit quicker near the subject, but in the big picture, they look similar.
....
In this sample I prefer the Nikon Bokeh and overall look ;)
 

Alon

Not Available
I like the dog.

The 85G is a very good lens for it's price range. It is a bit MickeyMousey and needs some PP help when compared with the render of Leica R.
But I do like the 85/1.8G a lot and the 85/1.4G is sitting in the cabinet for the moment.

It is interesting to look at the Dog+Ball pic but maybe not fair to the Cron 90 as the dog is running towards the camera and focus might be a bit off?

The Ball+Chair pics are a better test and I am curious to know if you used a tripod and/or live view or was it handheld and manual focus?

I am not a fan of the Cron 90 and prefer the 90AA which obviously beats the 85/1.8G and the 85/1.4G on all accounts minus speed of focusing and bokeh WO.

But this statement is not based on any test and only on looking at pics shot with the 85G's and the 90AA. Yeah maybe I should do a side by side test to be on the safe side.

A small question, your Exif shows 85mm for the Cron 90 while I tend to use the 86mm slot to differentiate another 85mm namely the CZJ 85/1.2.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Rob, The Summicron just does not go unsharp quickly, it just is unsharp (from your samples) overall compared to the Nikkor. Not a surprise at all to me. For an old simple double Gauss lens, the Summicron isn't bad and is perhaps a bit unfair to compare with the modern 85/1.8 G.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
Having owned the 90mm APO, I could say it would match or outperform the 85mm Nikkor, but at quite a price premium.

I put the R mount back on the Summicron and it is back in the cabinet with the old Leicaflex SL2 Mot, a camera more its vintage.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
I like the dog.

It is interesting to look at the Dog+Ball pic but maybe not fair to the Cron 90 as the dog is running towards the camera and focus might be a bit off?

The Ball+Chair pics are a better test and I am curious to know if you used a tripod and/or live view or was it handheld and manual focus?

A small question, your Exif shows 85mm for the Cron 90 while I tend to use the 86mm slot to differentiate another 85mm namely the CZJ 85/1.2.
I think the dog is in focus, but the shutter speed was too slow for the motion. There is a bit of blur, but it is a motion blur.

For the chair picture, the camera was live view focused on a tripod. The Summicron wide open is not as sharp as the Nikon at f2 and I confirmed this when testing using the apartment building shot earlier in the thread. I didn't test the 85mm @f1.8. if the 85mm is like the 50mm f1.8 G, it too would be a bit soft with CA wide open.

I changed it to 86mm in later shots. I assume Nikon never made a 90mm, so 90mm is not in the list.
 
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Rob thanks for the tests.
It's clear that the Nikon 85 1.8 is better performer.
I'm thinking of going for this prime or the 90mm APO Lanthar which report very good on Digilloids.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Antonio

Having used all three lens systems....consider that the Nikon lenses render differently from the Leica R . So if you are putting together a collection or a book ...the images will have a different aesthetic . Personally I don t much like the signature of the Nikon 1.8 primes ..much prefer the 85 1.4G which I think is as good as it gets in a Nikkor.

I went with the 80/1.4 SLX .....lower contrast and resolution wide open ..but at F5.6 has the classic Leica R balance of color,contrast,resolution and bokeh. If I was doing landscape I would get the 100APO . If I wanted more sharpness wide open I would get the 90APO ...but the character of the 80 SLX is well regarded .
 
Antonio

Having used all three lens systems....consider that the Nikon lenses render differently from the Leica R . So if you are putting together a collection or a book ...the images will have a different aesthetic . Personally I don t much like the signature of the Nikon 1.8 primes ..much prefer the 85 1.4G which I think is as good as it gets in a Nikkor.

I went with the 80/1.4 SLX .....lower contrast and resolution wide open ..but at F5.6 has the classic Leica R balance of color,contrast,resolution and bokeh. If I was doing landscape I would get the 100APO . If I wanted more sharpness wide open I would get the 90APO ...but the character of the 80 SLX is well regarded .
Roger, great info. I'm planning to use it for landscape and mostly urban details, The 100mm is bit long for my taste, the 80 to 85 would do better.
I still need to balance some of interests to be able to decide.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
I made some more lens tests this morning. I don't have the time to posts the results, but in this case the Leica was the superior lens. A Canadian retailer had the Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8 VR II on sale at about $350 off and I bought one last night. This morning I compared it to the Leica 105-280mm at the 200mm setting. The Leica is at its nest at f5.6, so I shot both at that aperture. The Leica was sharp out to the edges of the frame, the Nikon wasn't. Before getting worried about the Nikon, I looked up the MTF curves for it and the quality drops off at the 15mm area, probably as demonstrated in my test shot. The Leica doesn't drop off until a bit further out and is reflected in my test shot.

I shot hockey with the 70-200mm and its AF performance is excellent. Just downloading the files now. Why did I get a 36mp camera; it takes so long to download and sort the files.
The Leica MTF curves can be found here:

Leica Camera AG - Downloads

Ken Rockwell has the Nikon ones in his review. I couldn't find them on the Nikon Canada site.

Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR II
 

ShooterSteve

New member
Hi,

I've been using three Leica R's on my Canon's for years, (thanks to a guy named Guy Mancuso, who shared the secret of solving wide angle resolution on the latest hi-res cameras at that time).

Now that I took delivery of a D800 I've successfully adapted my 28 f2.8 and 35 f2, but could not get the 19mm 2.8 to work. the rear element penetrates the body too much to clear the mirror's path. All my lenses are the latest ROM versions. They are spectacular performers and i'm very disappointed in this problem with the 19. I've removed all the material I can from the rear of the lens without grinding the optics :D.

I'd love to know how others have gotten this lens to work? Maybe the D800E has a different mirror? I planned on getting the E also.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
Hi,

I've been using three Leica R's on my Canon's for years, (thanks to a guy named Guy Mancuso, who shared the secret of solving wide angle resolution on the latest hi-res cameras at that time).

Now that I took delivery of a D800 I've successfully adapted my 28 f2.8 and 35 f2, but could not get the 19mm 2.8 to work. the rear element penetrates the body too much to clear the mirror's path. All my lenses are the latest ROM versions. They are spectacular performers and i'm very disappointed in this problem with the 19. I've removed all the material I can from the rear of the lens without grinding the optics :D.

I'd love to know how others have gotten this lens to work? Maybe the D800E has a different mirror? I planned on getting the E also.
I haven't tried the 19mm yet, but with the 21-35mm, I can use live view and this puts up the mirror. Once the mirror is up, I zoom to the 21mm setting and frame and expose using live view.

I don't have my 19mm handy, but if the rear element moves, you may be able to activate live view with the lens at close focus.
 

ShooterSteve

New member
I haven't tried the 19mm yet, but with the 21-35mm, I can use live view and this puts up the mirror. Once the mirror is up, I zoom to the 21mm setting and frame and expose using live view.

I don't have my 19mm handy, but if the rear element moves, you may be able to activate live view with the lens at close focus.
Yes, I've done that on some of my old Canon bodies. On my 1DsMk3 it works perfectly as is. On my 5D Mk3 I have to focus just a bit closer than infinity an it works fine. But with on the D800 I'm going to have to grind the shroud down past the spot where the rear element rests at infinity for that to work. I may give it a try later today. It's a work around but also a real pain do to that on a job while trying to shoot quickly. My alternative is to just keep it for my Canon bodies, and buy a Zeiss 18 for the Nikon. Maybe the next generation bodies will work better with it.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
Here is the 400mm APO on the D800E. I was shooting through dirty plexi glass so the images will not be as sharp.

 
Hi,

I've been using three Leica R's on my Canon's for years, (thanks to a guy named Guy Mancuso, who shared the secret of solving wide angle resolution on the latest hi-res cameras at that time).

Now that I took delivery of a D800 I've successfully adapted my 28 f2.8 and 35 f2, but could not get the 19mm 2.8 to work. the rear element penetrates the body too much to clear the mirror's path. All my lenses are the latest ROM versions. They are spectacular performers and i'm very disappointed in this problem with the 19. I've removed all the material I can from the rear of the lens without grinding the optics :D.

I'd love to know how others have gotten this lens to work? Maybe the D800E has a different mirror? I planned on getting the E also.
Steve, see post 26 in this thread, instructions on leitax site, or search for elmarit r 19 modification: there are a lot of suggestions.
If you don't want to grind more material from the lens or the mirror of the camera, you can still use the 19 in live view, as suggested by Rob, or activating live view and putting the lens on the camera after that.(but you shouldn't have any problem with the grinding)
Sergio
 

ShooterSteve

New member
Steve, see post 26 in this thread, instructions on leitax site, or search for elmarit r 19 modification: there are a lot of suggestions.
If you don't want to grind more material from the lens or the mirror of the camera, you can still use the 19 in live view, as suggested by Rob, or activating live view and putting the lens on the camera after that.(but you shouldn't have any problem with the grinding)
Sergio
Yes, It looks like I already removed more material than that photo shows,but maybe the angle wasn't the same. I'm also wondering if the E has a different mirror box? I'll give it another go and see what happens. Thanks for the feedback.
 

ShooterSteve

New member
The shroud must be partially filed. I did the operation without difficulty.


_DSC1262 by sergio lovisolo, on Flickr

Lens can be protected with a circle of plastic material and paper tape used to avoid that metal dust penetrate in the lens.
I think this is the best wide angle for the 18-21 range ever made. Distortion
is identical to that of the Zeiss 21 2,8 ZF2, profiles available on PS:
Sergio
Hi Sergio, if you get a chance can you take a better photo of the rear of your 19 2.8? I have the same lens and am so far, unable to remove enough of the rear of the lens to clear the mirror on my D800. I have the latest ROM version. Is that what yours is?

Thanks for any help.

Steve
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Sergio

Your tests are the best ! This is exactly what I love about the 80/1.4 . The ability to use the aperture to change the aesthetic of the rendering .

Yes its difficult to focus accurately wide open at closer distances and the 85/1.4G is much easier to get right ..but often you only need one photograph out of many captures.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Yes, I've done that on some of my old Canon bodies. On my 1DsMk3 it works perfectly as is. On my 5D Mk3 I have to focus just a bit closer than infinity an it works fine. But with on the D800 I'm going to have to grind the shroud down past the spot where the rear element rests at infinity for that to work. I may give it a try later today. It's a work around but also a real pain do to that on a job while trying to shoot quickly. My alternative is to just keep it for my Canon bodies, and buy a Zeiss 18 for the Nikon. Maybe the next generation bodies will work better with it.
This a bit discouraging . With the Canon bodies it used be that the mirrors had a wide variance (tolerance) ..some worked and others would not . Sergio posted some examples using his 19 . Anyone else using a 19 and been through the shaving process. I would hate to buy one and shave it to fine it would not focus to infinity without hitting the mirror .
 
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