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Thread: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

  1. #51
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    So far I haven't seen anything I don't like about the D600. It will make an excellent companion to my D800 and will be a great tool for wedding photography.

    In some ways I can see myself using it more often than the D800 simply because of the weight advantage and also many of my clients simply don't need 36mp.

    Historically, I've avoided "pro-spec" cameras such as the F3 (in days of yore) preferring a FE2 or more recently a D800 instead of a D4 simply because I don't like heavy camera bags and like to work with smaller cameras (despite having huge hands!). So the D600 seems pretty good to me.

  2. #52
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Seems great as a companion to my D800E as well. Now price wise I could buy a used D800 for 2600 so really only a 500 difference . But I might be after a smaller size anyway . I woul feel better at 1900.00 instead of 2100.00 but hey no one gives a rats arch about my feelings anyway. LOL

    I'll get one after its out a couple weeks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Likewise I would like a mini D4 for half the cost ...and a 24MP that splits the difference between the d800 and the d4 would be ideal ....but it should be built on a solid chassis (pro build) and have the benefits of a smaller (D800 size) form and better ISO . Ok lower volume and its the same $3k as the D800. Price in this range is not relevant if it does the job. Its the capabilities of the camera thats disappointing but logical from a business standpoint .

    Great camera for a different set of users at a price that blows away the competition ..at least until next week.
    This mini D4 camera that splits the difference between the D4 and D800 is the camera I described in my posts above (and one in which many others have alluded to as desirable). Not in place of the entry level full frame D600 but in addition to it. I feel it's like the missing link and that's been expressed elsewheres. Both cameras have their place in the market, in my opinion.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 14th September 2012 at 22:56.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    I agree a little 18mpx small race horse would be nice. A D4 mini
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    This is cool. I like the idea you can see from your iPhone the view in your cam and shoot. Wonder how much the range really is.

    The D600 can be operated*remotely*with the new WU-1b wireless mobile adapter*($59.95)*exactly like the D3200 -*see this demo. The Android app is already available, the iPhone app just got released and can now be downloaded from iTunes:

    The Wireless Mobile Adapter Utility is used to establish two-way wireless connections between Nikon digital SLR cameras and iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch devices. Pictures taken with the digital SLR camera can be downloaded to the iOS device, and the camera can be controlled remotely, with the iOS device displaying the view through the camera lens. The file sharing feature makes it easy to upload pictures to social networking sites or attach them to e-mail messages.

    Features:

    When a wireless mobile adapter is connected to a compatible digital SLR camera, connections can easily be established with the iOS device.
    The camera clock can be synchronized with the iOS device.
    Pictures taken with digital SLR cameras can be downloaded to the iOS device camera roll.
    The iOS device can be used to view the pictures on the camera memory card and add them to the iOS device camera roll.
    The file-sharing features on the iOS device can be used to pass downloaded pictures to other apps for easy sharing.
    The view through the camera lens can be previewed on, and the shutter released from, the iOS device.
    Pictures taken remotely will automatically be downloaded from the digital SLR camera to the iOS device.
    Here are some screenshots of the new Nikon iPhone app:



    Read more on NikonRumors.com: Nikon Rumors
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  6. #56
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    I wonder if it could be used in LV mode.
    This would be a great focusing aide, especially on the newipod touch
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    I was expecting to be a buyer, but at the current UK pricing, the D800 makes more sense (150 difference). A shame, because I'd have quite liked the smaller body.

  8. #58
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    This mini D4 camera that splits the difference between the D4 and D800 is the camera I described in my posts above (and one in which many others have alluded to as desirable). Not in place of the entry level full frame D600 but in addition to it. I feel it's like the missing link and that's been expressed elsewheres. Both cameras have their place in the market, in my opinion.

    Dave (D&A)
    Maybe a comparison that references the D4 would be useful as not many have a D4 and a D800/E.

    Since I enjoy shooting sports ..I went with a D4 (to compliment my D800Es) ...and its a much better camera for sports than a a D800 . (you don t have to do sports to appreciate the capabilities of a PRO body set up for higher ISO and maximum responsiveness). The build,handling and execution of all most every feature is better . Unnecessary for most applications but it sets the standard as it should at $6K . Its tuned for higher ISO with an 18MP sensor (and as we debated in the past ...at least a few EV better ISO performance ). After more testing this week ..I am tending to agree (with Dave) in some situations it can be 2+ EV .

    Speaking of high ISO performance is about more than just noise ..its also about DR and color saturation. I am finding that I enjoy the D800E a lot up to ISO 800 and that ISO1600 can be nearly as good (but avoid it if I can manage ) . Sports and action is the land of ISO800-6400 .

    So what are our expectations of a mini D4 ....whats required . Here are few of my tests of illumination requirements from NYC. Grand Central Terminal at rush hour .....you need ISO 3200 to maintain adequate DOF and stopping action . Same for Times Square . The D800E will not handle beyond ISO1600..consistently ....not saying that you can do great at ISO1600 ...but you will miss good opportunities .. So if your photography involves people and moments you need more .

    But with a D4 you give some quality at the lower ISO range ... the sharpness and color saturation can be brutal in bright light . Shot at ISO200 and you need softer light or to handle it in post . Its more than the pixel size ..the camera seems optimal at ISO400 and loses very little at ISO800.

    So what the heck could the D600 even hope to be? You can t give up the low end in a camera with mass appeal . So if base ISO is 200 ..then I would expect good performance up to 1600 ...and maybe 3200 would be OK ? (unlikely) . It has the AF system 39pts of the D7000 adequate but not if you are complaining about the D800 or think you might want to be focusing at f1.4. Quality control sufficient to use manual lenses ...is this a serious consideration ? A screen you can actually focus with in low light ?

    Nikon did a lot of this with the D700 ...same sensor as the D3 and near PRO standards in everything in a robust smaller form . But the entry price was $2800 when the D3 was $4995.

    The D600 is a D7000 body with the FF sensor ..which should be a great product but not a mini D4 at $2000. (sorry for rambling but not many have the D4 to compare with the D800 as a point of reference).

  9. #59
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Maybe a comparison that references the D4 would be useful as not many have a D4 and a D800/E.

    Since I enjoy shooting sports ..I went with a D4 (to compliment my D800Es) ...and its a much better camera for sports than a a D800 . (you don t have to do sports to appreciate the capabilities of a PRO body set up for higher ISO and maximum responsiveness). The build,handling and execution of all most every feature is better . Unnecessary for most applications but it sets the standard as it should at $6K . Its tuned for higher ISO with an 18MP sensor (and as we debated in the past ...at least a few EV better ISO performance ). After more testing this week ..I am tending to agree (with Dave) in some situations it can be 2+ EV .

    Speaking of high ISO performance is about more than just noise ..its also about DR and color saturation. I am finding that I enjoy the D800E a lot up to ISO 800 and that ISO1600 can be nearly as good (but avoid it if I can manage ) . Sports and action is the land of ISO800-6400 .

    So what are our expectations of a mini D4 ....whats required . Here are few of my tests of illumination requirements from NYC. Grand Central Terminal at rush hour .....you need ISO 3200 to maintain adequate DOF and stopping action . Same for Times Square . The D800E will not handle beyond ISO1600..consistently ....not saying that you can do great at ISO1600 ...but you will miss good opportunities .. So if your photography involves people and moments you need more .

    But with a D4 you give some quality at the lower ISO range ... the sharpness and color saturation can be brutal in bright light . Shot at ISO200 and you need softer light or to handle it in post . Its more than the pixel size ..the camera seems optimal at ISO400 and loses very little at ISO800.

    So what the heck could the D600 even hope to be? You can t give up the low end in a camera with mass appeal . So if base ISO is 200 ..then I would expect good performance up to 1600 ...and maybe 3200 would be OK ? (unlikely) . It has the AF system 39pts of the D7000 adequate but not if you are complaining about the D800 or think you might want to be focusing at f1.4. Quality control sufficient to use manual lenses ...is this a serious consideration ? A screen you can actually focus with in low light ?

    Nikon did a lot of this with the D700 ...same sensor as the D3 and near PRO standards in everything in a robust smaller form . But the entry price was $2800 when the D3 was $4995.

    The D600 is a D7000 body with the FF sensor ..which should be a great product but not a mini D4 at $2000. (sorry for rambling but not many have the D4 to compare with the D800 as a point of reference).
    I thought I remembered paying 2350.00 new for my D700, it's been over a year ago, so maybe I forgot. I don't think the D7000 is a good comparison to the D600. I think you need to go down a model or two, to the D5100 or something like that. The way I see it, is if the D600 had a crop sensor, it would probably be in the 500-600 dollar range, so is the full frame sensor worth twice as much, which would be around 1000.00?. Or, is it worth three times as much, which would be 1500.00? Or, would it be worth four times as much at 2000.00$ Nikon is asking 2200.00$, which is more than four times as much. I guess another way to look at it, is if a D300 was 1400.00, would you pay 1200.00 for a entry level camera, if you could get the pro for a couple hundred more?

    Don't get me wrong, I've been an advocate for a smaller, lighter full frame, from the beginning (think digital FM2), but I think Nikon is sort of giving us a sucker punch with this deal. Just my opinion.

  10. #60
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Clay

    In the context of the thread ....really about understanding the capabilities of the D600 and where it might fit in as a 2nd body to a D800...

    My wife shoots with a D7000 and I have used it on occasion. Found it to be a fantastic camera with the Zeiss lenses and capable of very strong IQ . At the pixel level this sensor is first rate . A good value at $1000. The D600 specification maps right into this camera except its a full frame sensor . Debating whether the camera should cost $1800 or $2100 seems of limited further flagging . Relevant in some context not so much in others .

    But as you move into the D800 and up range of equipment ..things like AF accuracy, viewfinder brightness, battery life , etc etc start to matter . This is where the D600 will have limitations as a PRO solution . Look at a D7000 and assume it FF and you have the closest match .

    The D700 is closer to what many hoped for ...that was the FM2 digital . Now give me a 24MP sensor with high ISO performance in a D700 like body and thats not far off the mini D4 analogy (except maybe the viewfinder ). I think this would cost too much for the target audience and Nikon took the correct approach.

  11. #61
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Roger Wrote>>>"The D700 is closer to what many hoped for ...that was the FM2 digital . Now give me a 24MP sensor with high ISO performance in a D700 like body and thats not far off the mini D4 analogy (except maybe the viewfinder )"<<<

    This is the camera many current and previous D700 users were hoping for. A 18-24mp body with high ISO performanceof at least one stop better than the D800 and frame rate of approx 6FPS in a robust D700 type body. It doesn't have to match the D4 for ultimate high ISO perfornace or itsmax frame rate but something thats as much as a standout in capabilities regarding its strengths as was the D800 with regards to resolution and build quality.

    There would still be room for a D600 too but aparently the need for this mini D4 is something thats often mentioned.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    Curiously, the d800 and the d600 cost the same per pixel.
    (about .008)
    Last edited by paulraphael; 17th September 2012 at 09:43.
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    Re: Nikon D600 may not be so "budget" after all

    from my perch in the Leica world (with M8 and M6), this sure is budget. i really like how Nikon is making FF DSLRs smaller and smaller (while Leica seems intent on making FF DRFs larger and larger) ... hmmm ... i should probably give this camera a try to see how life is back with a DSLR. i shoot mostly street photography and simply have never really done that with an SLR/DSLR ... that's my only point of hesitation (even though i know some folks do great street work with DSLRs) ...

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