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Thread: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

  1. #51
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Theodporos...once again I can completely agree and identify with everything you expressed...virtually word for word! I personally need at least 24MP in a body as responsive as a D700/D3s preferably in a D800 sized body..with superb high ISO performance, Af sensor spread across most of the frame, 7FPS and more. The D600 comes slightly closer to my requirements than a D800, but neither is ideal for my needs. The D4 would be perfect if it had at least 24MP. 36MP is fine and preferable for landscape use but unless there is a very specific need, 24MP is close to ideal for wedding work, in my opinion.

    Nikon has a gap in DSLR's bodies in a number of key areas and hoefully they'll address them by the end of 2013.

    The D800/e should have had at least an option to shoot 24MP, Combined with a processor that responded more quickly with read/write times with this smaller (downsized) file size and also boosted the FPS in this lower 24MP resolution mode. The optional grip could have been partly involved with these requirments if it was necessary.

    Guess some of it will come in due time.

    Dave (D&A)
    I guess it all depends on how "heavy" crop is involved, personally I don't crop much, besides the difference between 16mp and 24 files is small... would of course prefer the 24mp sensor in D800 than the existing one (not for the E though), but I have to admit that the quality of the 16mp sensor has impressed me, it's not because of the pixel count, it's its high(er) Iso DR and the quality of noise (!!) that I find superb... I like sensors with narrower linear part in their DR (like film was) and higher compression in their HLs and LLs... I find they end up (after processing) with more usable (natural looking) DR... If you have a chance to try D4 you'll see what I mean, not that the difference is much, or that you can't work around things without it, but ...it suits me!
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Jason Muelver's Avatar
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Boy Dave, only being a partial smart ***, but a 5DMk3 sounds like just what you (and I guess I ) need?
    http://jasonedwardphoto.com http://jasonmuelver.tumblr.com
    Nikon FX, Leica M8, Mamiya 645, Canon F-1

  3. #53
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Muelver View Post
    Boy Dave, only being a partial smart ***, but a 5DMk3 sounds like just what you (and I guess I ) need?
    I thought we were talking about photos here Jason.... not video!!!!

  4. #54
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Muelver View Post
    Boy Dave, only being a partial smart ***, but a 5DMk3 sounds like just what you (and I guess I ) need?
    I know Jason but the last think I want to do is switch systems. Anyhow, years of watching this "digital game" has taught me (and I'm sure you and everyone else), that when either Nikon or Canon is ahead with a particular product...it's only a matter of time when the other company catches up and leapfrogs over the competition. This game is played endlessly....but unfortunately it's often a long waiting game.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    So I'm reviving this thread because I decided to do an experiment. I've rented a D3S for an occasion next month and that should allow me to get a feel for what good high ISO can do for me. Of course not being a regular Nikon user I thought I could ask some Nikon shooters what good set points I could use for available-light shooting in an indoor low-light environment. So what AF mode (spot, etc.) is best with this camera in that environment. I'm shooting a gathering of people that will include some moving targets. I'll be using a stabilized zoom lens with a maximum aperture of 2.8. All advice is welcome.

    regards,
    Joh n

  6. #56
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    I like this thread because it took an interesting derivation about some essential "things" of photography, in some ways. Guy screamed the first ^^

    I started my own business in January and actually build it slowly. I know some pros who gave me some great advices, like... renting what we need in the high end level. Like... MFDB ... I will never buy one, I do not like it, its to big, slow, expensive... as I will never buy a Nikon D800.

    I own a brand new D700 bought last year, some very nice lenses, a Nikon F65 who do the job very well to (lol), a DP3 Merrill (who is a pro tool in my world), a good screen a good computer, good Epson Pro Printers ... This is more than one can want in some areas. Then some ppl lend me sometime a Leica S2, D800 and some other things, I'm happy.

    Then come someone who offer me a wast amount of cash, to spend it in gear only (so sad, but I will not complain). So I did a "heart list" who will land on my table in some weeks.

    Over the D800, I will take a D600 as a companion of my D700, because I think, from my experience of photography, that it is a great tool at the end. I do not care about the toughness and AF, I care about the sensor output with my lenses and the D600 is class leading actually, isn't he ? At a sensor level ? So, why the hell I will buy a 36 MP camera ? For what ? to buy the lastes Zeiss lenses ? of AFS-G lenses ?? C'mon !! If I need rez, I go rez, not pussy rez.

    So what do I ordered too ?? Now way I will ask someone to pay me an MFDB system. If my clients want something out of it, I rent it. I took what seems logic in my mind (and I'm 34 years old, I do have I hope a lot of road to do ^^):

    A brand new Mamyia 7ii with the 80 and the 150, a vast repro bench, light tables and load of films to fill out the fridge, negatives and reversibles, a good expo/flashmeter and here we go baby.

    Some asked me via mail my new scanning method of 6x7 films... some might now guess is I will do a review about it. I will scan by stitching with the DP3merrill on a repro bench. My guesstimate is it will go FAR beyond what can do a V750 and very close what can do a drum scan (and might surpass it in some ways). Marrying foveon and film should be spectacular but I might be wrong. Since I have the gear, why not trying it ??


    So, D4... D800, ISO, Mpx ... why asking ?? They are not the same tool and both very expensive. One cost a lot but have very good and flexible files, the other cost a lot too and need class leading optics to come close to a simple DP3 Merrill... + the investment in storage ... well, you get it.

    The D3s, if very unused, is a very very good choice even today, of course !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  7. #57
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Of course, If you have another advice for me I'll be happy to listen !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    So I used the rented D3S last week with a Tamron 24-70 F2.8 with VC. My guesstimate is that the D3S has about a 2 to 2-1/2 stop advantage over my Sony A-850. But what turned out to be almost as important is the Auto ISO settings that the D3S has that my Sony doesn't. In aperture mode, the camera will use a maximum exposure duration (e.g. 1/200 sec) after which it will bump up the ISO to a maximum (e.g. 6400) and after that is reached will then use longer exposure times as a strategy for shooting in low light. This was a fantastic option for me. I feel that this optimized the shots I got in an environment where lighting varied a lot and motion blur was a big factor. Do all the high end Nikons (D800, D4, D600) have this option?

    Regards,
    John

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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Yes, they all have auto ISO. The auto exposure is good enough IMO to make auto ISO very useful, especially combined with a little ADL to protect the highlights. I use it whenever the D800E is off the tripod. You'll want to enable the ADL with auto ISO because dynamic range (and hence exposure headroom) drops with an increase in ISO and the exposure system appears to "expose to the center". ADL makes it operate more ETTR.

    The A850 is a fine camera, too - I still have mine. With a type M screen it's a nice companion for my somewhat random, adapted lens collection. (Which frankly doesn't see much use, but none of it is valuable enough to bother selling.)

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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    The A850 is a fine camera, too - I still have mine. With a type M screen it's a nice companion for my somewhat random, adapted lens collection. (Which frankly doesn't see much use, but none of it is valuable enough to bother selling.)
    Jan:
    Thanks for the Nikon info. It's good to get help with a new system from someone familiar with it. As for the A850, I agree with you. It is a fine camera for everything but high ISO use. I love using it for everything in good light. I do wish it had live view though. That would improve usability for macro and landscape uses.

    Regards,
    John

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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Auto ISO is a killer feature. When I got my d800, I didn't care about low light performance or automatic anything. But it lulled me into a project that required working quickly in low light. Auto iso made a technically complex situation almost effortless. I had control over the aperture for DOF, and the shutter speed for stopping motion, and let the camera worry about exposure.

  12. #62
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    Re: D3S vs D800 on low light High ISO noise

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post
    Auto ISO is a killer feature. When I got my d800, I didn't care about low light performance or automatic anything. But it lulled me into a project that required working quickly in low light. Auto iso made a technically complex situation almost effortless. I had control over the aperture for DOF, and the shutter speed for stopping motion, and let the camera worry about exposure.
    Yes it does decrease the potential of missing a shot when the light levels fluctuate greatly. I was shooting an occasion that went from outdoor broad daylight to indoor variable light (windows and tungsten and fluorescent lights). It was excellent to have an eye watching my light levels from shot to shot.

    Regards,
    John

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