jonoslack
Active member
:salute:
Help is at hand Carlos - just getting my act together
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D3x likely official next week
- Thread starter Lars
- Start date
Some interesting D3x samples - with new 50/1.4 AFS
http://www.studioimpressionsphotography.com/blog/2008/11/nikon-d3x-sample-images/
Naturally, the various forums have everyones knickers in full wedgie-mode 'debating' the obvious inherent superiority of X vs. Y vs. any camera or MFDB ever made, currently being made or even planning on being made by anyone; why Nikon didn't have a 2:1 sale on the D3x, etc., etc.
God, we humans are nothing if not (sadly) predictable in our ability,as a whole, to make idiots of ourselves at the drop of a hat.
http://www.studioimpressionsphotography.com/blog/2008/11/nikon-d3x-sample-images/
Naturally, the various forums have everyones knickers in full wedgie-mode 'debating' the obvious inherent superiority of X vs. Y vs. any camera or MFDB ever made, currently being made or even planning on being made by anyone; why Nikon didn't have a 2:1 sale on the D3x, etc., etc.
God, we humans are nothing if not (sadly) predictable in our ability,as a whole, to make idiots of ourselves at the drop of a hat.
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jonoslack
Active member
Ahh Rob - but it certainly makes for a little light entertainment between sorting out VAT anomolies for clients.
Come to think of it, perhaps YOU were speaking of Mr Alistair Darling too!
:ROTFL:
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
I would be very surprised if the D3x isn't a fantastic camera in most respects, and for work purposes, I would even prefer the integrated grip compared to a D700/A900 style body (more compact with grip mounted, more solid build). What Nikon is doing though, is gambling a bit with the price, putting it on Canon 1DsIII level. But this is a gamble they won with the D3, so they may pull it off again.
However, the market has changed a bit since then. Last year, there was no A900 around, and with the Zeiss lenses, it's a very compelling alternative. And for me at least, in-body IS would be a big advantage. Apart from the 200, Nikon has no VR-lenses faster than f/2.8. I would kill for that on an 85 and/or 135, which are focal lengths I use a lot under low-light conditions.
The D3x is more or less exactly what I expected Nikon to launch, although at a price I'm not comfortable with. The surprise to me is that it takes them so long time to come up with new primes. A fast WA would be obvious, particularly since the 28/1.4 is no more, and a 135/2.0 with AF-S and VR is long overdue as well. 300/4 with VR? How difficult can it be? Photographers are waiting in scores for that one.
However, the market has changed a bit since then. Last year, there was no A900 around, and with the Zeiss lenses, it's a very compelling alternative. And for me at least, in-body IS would be a big advantage. Apart from the 200, Nikon has no VR-lenses faster than f/2.8. I would kill for that on an 85 and/or 135, which are focal lengths I use a lot under low-light conditions.
The D3x is more or less exactly what I expected Nikon to launch, although at a price I'm not comfortable with. The surprise to me is that it takes them so long time to come up with new primes. A fast WA would be obvious, particularly since the 28/1.4 is no more, and a 135/2.0 with AF-S and VR is long overdue as well. 300/4 with VR? How difficult can it be? Photographers are waiting in scores for that one.
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V
Vivek
Guest
I think the prices will come down to below $5,000 in a few months.
Sony is becoming more and more attractive.
Sony is becoming more and more attractive.
I saw a list somewhere of possible rumoured lenses which included 135 f1.8VR and I think a 35 f1.4 but it was just a rumour thread, but so was the D3x.
I'm looking at getting a D700, as they are getting cheaper and cheaper. 12mp covers all my current work commitments, if I still have clients who have money to spend. New clients are getting a bit of a liability, a friend who has a largish commercial studio is finding it increasingly hard to get payments in.
There's a big Nikon do in London next week Solutions Expo at Olympia. I will go if I have a day to waste, but prefer NPS days.
David
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
Are headphones and handsfree set included, or do I have to buy those extra?
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Nice samples folks, a bit small to really judge anything.
BUT if I can judge something from these samples than it is that they are not better than the results coming from a 1DSM3 - sorry! So we had studio quality already since 2 years with the 1DSM3, plus there are really nice primes for studio work from Canon. Why does Nikon now run the advertising mill and cry out loud that they have reinvented studio photography with the D3X ?????
And why did it take Nikon 2 more years than Canon to come up to this same level (if it is the same level without the missing primes at all)?
And why did they NOT do their homework and make the D3X really suited for PRO needs - like missing senor clean?
And why - sorry to repeat again, but this is the most sucking in the whole Nikon story for me - do they still have no range of fast primes?
Come on Nikon - you could do really better and finally get your act together :grin:
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Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Nobody has questioned the abilities of the 1DsIII, and Canon is a leading sensor manufacturer still. The two cameras are priced at the same level, and will probably render photos of similar quality, everything else being equal.
The Canon, which was launched on 20 August 2007, doesn't have sensor cleaning either as far as I know, even though the technology had been known for many years. Expecting the D3x to be revolutionary better 15 months later would be a bit optimistic.
I think we can agree on the missing primes, but that doesn't make the D3x any better or worse. Each system has its limitations, and good photographers learn to live with them.
Lars
Active member
My guess is that Nikon is testing the waters with the pricing on the D3x. Tooling costs have already been recovered in the D3 production run, and while it's expensive to set up a sensor chip manufacturing run it certainly doesn't carry $3K of cost to retail. The margin must be huge.
Of course, this goes for Canon as well. For that reason I think we'll see some price competition between Nikon and Canon over the next six months, once initial demand has been saturated.
I'd venture a guess that the price gap between D3 and D3X will come down to $1K before end of Q2. Add to that some additional price pressure on the D3 to keep it below $4K and you are looking at a D3x price under $5K next summer.
Oh yeah - we'll see a D3s in the spring, carrying over improvements made in D3x.
Pure speculation on my part - any counterpoints?
Of course, this goes for Canon as well. For that reason I think we'll see some price competition between Nikon and Canon over the next six months, once initial demand has been saturated.
I'd venture a guess that the price gap between D3 and D3X will come down to $1K before end of Q2. Add to that some additional price pressure on the D3 to keep it below $4K and you are looking at a D3x price under $5K next summer.
Oh yeah - we'll see a D3s in the spring, carrying over improvements made in D3x.
Pure speculation on my part - any counterpoints?
Lars
Active member
In the video interview I linked to above, the Swedish Nikon rep commented on the lack of sensor cleaning in D3x - his view was that with the tolerances required for adjusting position of such a high-resolution sensor, shaking it around is not a good idea if you want long-term reliability, and it would be interesting to see how much service A900 and 5DII will require over time.
David, I think it's a 35/1.8 not 1.4... and I saw no mention of the 135/1.8 being VR.
As to the Rich man's Nikon @ $8,000. lots of luck on that one. Isn't that the same sensor as the A900 with Nikon's take on it? Duh, let me think about it ... $8,000. verses $3,000. No, wait, I already made that decision The 24.5 meg Sony+flash and 3 Zeiss lens sytem is about the same price as the D3X body alone ... and all the lenses are "VR" so to speak :thumbup:
If the rumor mill presses the idea that the D3X will drop thousands in price in pretty short order, then it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy because no one will buy the camera @ $8,000.
As to the Rich man's Nikon @ $8,000. lots of luck on that one. Isn't that the same sensor as the A900 with Nikon's take on it? Duh, let me think about it ... $8,000. verses $3,000. No, wait, I already made that decision
The 24.5 meg Sony+flash and 3 Zeiss lens sytem is about the same price as the D3X body alone ... and all the lenses are "VR" so to speak :thumbup:If the rumor mill presses the idea that the D3X will drop thousands in price in pretty short order, then it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy because no one will buy the camera @ $8,000.
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
Lars,
It's not the sensor that shakes, but the filter in front of it. For in-body IS, the sensor obviously has to move.
Ben Rubinstein
Active member
Tell that to Sony who put a bleeding VR system on the same resolution and sized chip!
Reminds me of the canon exec who said that they didn't need a new focusing system in the 5D as there had been no complaints about the old one.
Lars
Active member
Hmm did I mix up IS and VR?
jonoslack
Active member
C'mon Jurgen - this is Sony, even if it doesn't look like it!
Mind you, the handsfree set is worth the extra few quid.
Jorgen Udvang
Subscriber Member
Possibly. I had that worry before I bought the E-1, but was assured that the sensor didn't move. That has changed on later models of course.
It was argued until recently that in-body IS wasn't possible with an FF sensor, but Sony has proven that to be a myth as well. Now, I'm just waiting for them to prove that an MP3-player and SIM-card slot are obvious features on pro cameras.
Actually, I'm only halfway joking. With 3G speed, continuous uploading of photos to remote servers would be possible. That would mean that pj's could operate more independently but still stay online with editorial staff at home. From what I've heard, 2Mb/s will be available on the mobile net next year, even in this remote part of the universe.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
What I am trying to say is very simple:
Nikon is slow in development and even the long time they take to come up with somehow decent products does not help to really improve over the competition. And BTW - you really should look into Canon documents, then you would know that the 1DSM3 has sensor cleaning. And this since over a year already!
I shoot with a D3 myself and while this camera was a real milestone, I expected the D3X to bring at least similar improvements after this year of development. But obviously Nikon is hitting the wall with their digital technology again. Canon is already far ahead.
Take it as you like - I am no longer convinced of Nikon becoming the leader again.
V
Vivek
Guest
Leader in what? Small format digital cameras? There is so much diversity and so many choices.
No one is a "leader". If one is stuck with one brand of camera/system they are the ones lagging behind.
If you have money invested in Nikon/Canon/Mamiya stocks then the problem is even more serious! :shocked: