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Thread: Lens Insight

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Lens Insight

    Was not really sure what to call this thread but its interesting years ago i shot Canon but all my glass was Zeiss or Leica. Today I am packing for a small road trip with my wife to get away and also get a poster image shot for her company. So I opened my camera safe this morning and pulled out all the glass and damn if I am not doing the same thing with Nikon and have different brands but this time it is far worse. I have 5 count them 5 brands of lenses. Be interesting to see what others have come up with after spending some good shooting time with the D800 and D800E.

    Now i have switched things up a couple times and nice thing about Nikon, Canon and Sony etc is the lenses are not 5k per copy. In reality its a lot easier to buy one try it, keep it, sell it or just hand it down to your kid. Speaking of that awhile back i bought my son for Christmas a Nikon 3200 and he wanted a canon when dad is sitting on a pile of Nikon mounts. Straightened him out quickly. LOL

    Anyway back to this dilemma if you call it but today I sit with a Samyang 14mm Manual focus lens which seriously maybe the best wide angle deal around. Than moving up the Zeiss 25mm F2 which i tried everything else out there and cant find anything better. Than i move to 35mm , yea i had the Nikon 1.4 and now just sold the Zeiss F2 and I'm literally sitting here waiting for USPS for the Sigma 35mm 1.4 that is getting killer reviews, no worries mates I am doing one too. LOL
    Now funny thing is I had (3) 50mm 1.8 lenses, yea Im freaking nuts sold them to buy other things but i ordered one from calumet in DECEMBER and still have yet to get it. Moral of that story screw calumet go somewhere else. So the other day i bought a Nikon 60mm 2.8 macro. Love it sharp as hell so forget the 50mm focal length, I hate it anyway. LOL
    Next I have the Nikon 85 1.4 and have yet to find anything better in that focal length so thats a keeper. Than i recently got the Nikon 70-200 F4 and still trying to find a reason which i cant come up with of buying the 2.8 version since this thing is pretty dang good. Now for PR work I have my 5th brand a Tamron 24-70 2.8 which i like quite a bit and cant find a reason to buy the more expensive Nikon version.

    Now I never had 5 different brands of lenses in one stinking kit. Not sure if i am crazy or not here. Than again each one does a really good job and finding it hard to replace any of them. I do want to add to the collection or else I will get thrown out of the glass whore club out on my butt but I'm after the new Zeiss 135mm F2 next.

    So all this begs the real question of the day are we jumping around brands to solve certain issues in each focal length or just being way over picky on lens quality. I know i lean to the best imaging machine i can get my hands on and not all Nikon glass is perfect either. I find myself kind of laughing at myself for having 5 different brands of glass. Obviously I'm not brand bias here. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Oh and I'm only taking 3 brands with me or else I will really feel like a name dropper. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Guy Wrote>>>"Speaking of that awhile back i bought my son for Christmas a Nikon 3200 and he wanted a canon when dad is sitting on a pile of Nikon mounts. Straightened him out quickly. LOL"<<<

    How you'd manage that? By making the "illusionary" promise that once he reaching adulthood, he's welcome to open your "lens vault" and help himself to using any of Dad's treasures to his heart's content? LOL! Where have I heard that one before (LOL...probably in my own household growing up and I'm sure others have too!).

    Guy, what's wrong with you. Some would say it's a sickness to have so many brands. I say nonsense...the only thing lacking is a "sixth" brand. So what's wrong....where are those Leica "R" lenses converted for Nikon use?

    Have to give your entire post some serious thought today prior to responding with my own thoughts...but in the meantime it will be interesting to read the responses you get from others. Let me just say the reason one has different brands in the same mount is simply that there are so many excellent choices of lenses to shoot with these days and the camera brand manufacturers no longer have a monopoly on the top tier of superb performing lenses or they are no longer price competitive in today's economically challenged marketplace.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Over promise and under deliver. At least to the kids. LOL

    Leica I want the Leica R 19mm second version already filed down and with the Leitax mount. Now that is a great lens.

    Kicker is i had one years ago.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Over promise and under deliver. At least to the kids. LOL

    Leica I want the Leica R 19mm second version already filed down and with the Leitax mount. Now that is a great lens.

    Kicker is i had one years ago.
    Great philosophy...Aa parent after my own heart! LOL!
    That Leica 19mm is supposed to be superb. A fellow GEtdpi member sent me some images taken with the one he had, and I was truly impressed with it optically.

    Wow, if you re-obtain the Leica 19mm...it will be up to "six" brands....now were talking! LOL!

    Guy, enjoy your upcoming excursion (road trip) with your wife...lord knows you both deserve it!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Thanks Dave, I need a really long break. Wish I could get the Leica for bargain pricing. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Oh, I neglected to mention another reason why the Sammy 14mm and other lower price lenses are now acceptable to many. It is partly due to the ability to alter certain image characteristics in post prcessing. In the analogue film only era, the excessive distortion characteristics of that Sammy 14mm would be unacceptable to most photographers expecting and/or needing a ultra wide angle with low distortion.

    Through the magic of digital, that lens for "somewhat" near stright-line rectilinear use, becomes quite acceptable, especially considering it's price point. That's another reason why many 3rd party lenses are becoming quite acceptable.....namely with regards to their attractive price point, the ability to work with and change some of their optical definciencies.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Welcome to the club.

    I use Nikkor - Leica R - ZeissZF2 - Coastal Opt - Meyer - CZJ and other vintage glass.
    I am afraid no Sigma or Tamron or Samyang.....yet!

    Gone are the days to stick with one brand.

    My attitude is glass first, then match a body!

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Lens Insight


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    (...) I opened my camera safe this morning and pulled out all the glass and damn if I am not doing the same thing with Nikon and have different brands but this time it is far worse. I have 5 count them 5 brands of lenses. (...)

    The good news is that this time your lenses are all F-mount despite whatever brand name, so no adapters adding new alignment problems

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    If you like the Samyang glass you can always get the same lens in multiple vendor versions. I'm partial to Rockinon myself but there's always the option of Bower.

    On a related note, whilst the fast Nikon glass is better corrected for general use the Rockinon/Samyang/Bower wides are cleaner for shooting things like stars due to less coma. Horses for courses so they say ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Lens Insight

    I am an old timer, and non professional, but with my D800E I have Nikon 14-24mm, Zeiss 18mm ZF.2, Zeiss 35mm f2 ZF, Voigtlander 90mm f3.5 Apo Lanthar manual focus, Nikon 50mm f1.8 (what a bargain!!), and two Tamrons: 24-70 VC and 70-300mm VC. For the few occasions I need really long stuff I have a manual focus Nikon 400mm f5.6. I also have from my old days MF Nikkor AI 28mm f3.5, 50mm f2, 135mm f2.8, and 55mm f3.5 micro, and 500mm Mirror. All fit and work well with the newer DSLRs.
    Dave in Nj

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post



    The good news is that this time your lenses are all F-mount despite whatever brand name, so no adapters adding new alignment problems
    Yes think Zeiss learned something from us old timers with our bolt on adapters.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Guy, I'm glad that you bought the 60mm Macro 2.8
    Excellent lens. So far the only lens that I own that is really up to the D800.
    ACH

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Hi Guy,
    I think you are used to such good IQ from all your MF-experience that you now are looking to constantly search the problem in the lenses and therefore replace one with another...
    You should just buy a Phase body with some nice lenses or even better a Leica S with some S-lenses. I swear you would not doubt if you should replace any of those S-lenses with something different.
    And the best thing - there is only a limited number of focal lenghts available. Once you have collected all of them you are all set and can spend your money for other things.

    But seriously - in my case the 24-70II Canon lens I use on the 5diii is so good that I try to not buy any primes in this range- except the 50/1.2L - which is my low light and shallow DOF lens.
    At the wide end I opted for a Zeis 21/2.8 because a) I like 21mm a lot, wide enough for me, and a good complement for the 24-70 and b) because the reviews were so good that I thought it just must be really good (and so far I really like it)
    All other lenses I had are Canon (85/1.8, 135/2.0 and 70-200/4.0, TC1,.4III)
    When I had Nikon I had much more lenses, but many of them I used very seldom. Today I feel to know much better which lenses I really want/need/use.

    I wonder if you mix lenses from too many brands, even if all are good, if they do not produce different look/color etc.?

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    With all my experience (I think at least I have for myself and my working style and working areas) I come again and again to the conclusion, that I will only use original lenses for one specific brand and not mix with any other brand. This gets even more clear as longer as I shoot with the D800E.

    Yes there are differences and some other brand may be better in certain respects as Nikon, but end of the day I bought this system to have a fast AF camera, which I can use for people, portraits and wildlife, where especially people and wildlife require reliable and fast AF. So actually my 1.4/35 ZF.2 stays most time in the bag, because I do not want to use it on a camera I bought for fast shooting.

    Also I found especially the IQ differences between several 1.4/50 lenses pretty marginal, at least if it comes to real work for me, so the 1.4/50G will do great for me!

    If I need another look or specific other exclusive features, well my M collection exactly fulfills that need.

    And finally - I absolutely do not find it fun by any means to always need to look around for better glass, this widely distracts from taking real images.

    Makes life much easier end of the day
    Life is an ever changing journey
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    well I really have two separate lens kits in a way. A AF for the PR work type stuff and manual for me. I'm a old dog and still like primes and manual focusing and believe me i can focus better manually than AF can just that I'm a bit slower at it. My motto never give in to automation. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    well I really have two separate lens kits in a way. A AF for the PR work type stuff and manual for me. I'm a old dog and still like primes and manual focusing and believe me i can focus better manually than AF can just that I'm a bit slower at it. My motto never give in to automation. ROTFLMAO
    But you can also put every AF Nikkor into manual mode only ....

    Plus I do agree, sometimes MF is really faster also for me. Just staying with the brand lenses makes all a bit easier and cheaper.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Still I find it makes absolutely sense to use the best lenses on a camera like the D800. Otherwise one doesnt need such a sensor.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Still I find it makes absolutely sense to use the best lenses on a camera like the D800. Otherwise one doesnt need such a sensor.
    Agree and that is part of the issue. Nikon does not have the best in all focal lengths
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    I wonder if you mix lenses from too many brands, even if all are good, if they do not produce different look/color etc.?Paratom-

    I do think that should be a consideration if one puts together a portfolio or gallery of images to be shown together.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Well, even if I have the very best sensor there are lenses I like for their particular look.
    For example, if there were a lens available for the D800 that produced results such as this Cooke Optics Limited : Products : PS945 Large Format
    it would be in my kit immediately.
    Very best is not always defined as sharpest over-all or most contrasty. It is nice to have several options as it adds to your possibilities.
    -bob

    p.s.
    The cooke portrait is my favorite lens of all time for portraits on 4x5

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    Re: Lens Insight

    is it possible to mount the old hasselblad V lenses on the D800 or are they not up to the standard of the D800?

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Bob, I never owned the Cooke, but from what I can tell the Vivitar Series 1 135/2.3 is close. I have one in M42 mount; of course it's not really usable on a Nikon body. The thing with these lenses is the rendition comes from the aberrations, and they severely limit resolving power - in absolute lp/mm, not as a percentage of frame size. So the only way to get "more image" (or more accurately, more entropy) with a lens like this is to go up in image size.

    This was shot some 7-8 years ago with the Vivitar on a Canon 1Ds2. My little guy passed on in January, at close to 17 so he had a good long run.

    But, basically, there's never going to be a true Cooke-look lens for 35mm. You could mount one of course, but it would be very long and not produce a whole lot of usable image...

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    I suppose that a lens could be designed with the right amount of aberrations to generate a cooke-like image on 35mm digital, but I am afraid that the "quest for perfection" will probably make it a non-starter in the market.
    One of the reasons I like the 105DC is not for its sharpness but for its look.
    Honestly you need a lens like that for some of the boudoir subjects I shoot.
    Maybe a sheet of crumpled cellophane of a double softar might help
    -bob

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    Re: Lens Insight

    When I had Nikon, I used Nikkors...
    When I had Canon, I used Canons...
    When I had Olympus, I used Olympus...
    When I had Pentax, I used Pentax...
    And once upon a time, when I had Leica, I use all Leica lenses.

    But today, I have a smattering of Nikkors to use on Olympus E-1, Ricoh GXR, and eventually Leica M bodies. I have a couple of odd-ball adaptations that only work on a Micro-FourThirds body. I have a couple of Olympus FourThirds SLR lenses for the Olympus E-1. I have a bunch of Voigtländer, M-Rokkor, and Leica lenses to use on the Ricoh GXR and Leica M bodies.

    What does it all mean? Nothing really. I've just found lenses that I liked and that fit the bodies I had. Or I bought an interesting lens and then hunted up a body to use with it. I usually don't carry more than two or three lenses at the same time, ever, so I'll never have five different brands in my bag at the same time. Half of the cameras I'm using today are fixed-lens anyway.

    And I'll always have lenses that I know and understand what to expect from ... which is, to me, the important part. :-)

    G

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I suppose that a lens could be designed with the right amount of aberrations to generate a cooke-like image on 35mm digital, but I am afraid that the "quest for perfection" will probably make it a non-starter in the market.
    One of the reasons I like the 105DC is not for its sharpness but for its look.
    Honestly you need a lens like that for some of the boudoir subjects I shoot.
    Maybe a sheet of crumpled cellophane of a double softar might help
    -bob
    Bob, after reading the 1st of your two sentences above (and prior to getting to your 2nd sentence), the 105 & 135DC lenses popped into my head. It's lenses like these and some other similar ones that I could think of...that often are far superior for certain applications than the best performing, sharpest lensesof simi
    At focal lengths. That's also the reason that for some, the Leica rangefinder system is so strong....for the variety of lenses that have a distinct signature in the way they draw an image. They too don't always fair well in bench test measurements.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post

    Jan, it's images like the one you posted and what it represents, that transcends the performance or any characteristic of the lens used to take the shot. Lovely portrait regardless what lens or camera was used. Sometimes our angst in lens selection is justified, but there are those times when it truly doesn't matter so much. This is one of those cases...what a sweet looking dog!!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 27th February 2013 at 21:44.
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    Re: Lens Insight

    D&A: Took the words right out of my mouth.
    Dave in NJ

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    After some movement in my lineup here is where I sit today but I have been really waiting for the Zeiss 135

    So lineup
    Samyang 14
    Zeiss 25 F2
    Nikon 24-70
    Sigma 35 1.4
    Nikon 60 macro
    Nikon 85 1.8
    Nikon 70-200 f4

    But dont be surprised if the Zeiss 25 turns into a 21. I really want to compare theNikon at 24 and the Zeiss 25 and see what the difference is . Also dont be surprised if the 70-200 and 60 macro turns into a Zeiss 135 F2. Ill go back to the renting idea for the 70-200. I wanted that Zeiss 135 all along just had to wait for it. Im sick in the bloody head
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    You and I have a very similar lineup!
    Sammy 14
    Zeiss 21
    Nikon PC-E 24
    Nikon 28 F1.8
    Sigma 35 1.4
    Leica R Cron 50mm
    Nikon 85 F1.8
    Nikon 24-70G
    Nikon 70-200 F4
    Nikon TC IIIE converter

    Of those, the 'cold dead hands' lenses are the Leica, the Sammy and the Nikon 85. The mistake was the 24mm PC.

    I just swapped out of the 24-120 into the 24-70 and I must say, it is a very very weird lens. It's field of focus at 24mm is utterly bizarre and it has pretty much no character other than a lot of aberration and distortion at some parts of the range. I am sure it will grow on me, it is so widely and highly respected, but my first day of shooting with it was a total WTF and I think I prefer the Tamron 24-70VR I had for a while...
    Last edited by tashley; 28th February 2013 at 02:31.

  31. #31
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    I recently rented the Nikon 24mm f/1.4G (LensRentals) to see if AF capability and resolution would outweigh the micro contrast of the manual ZF.2 21mm. I shot two identical images and found the center resolution of the 24mmG to be excellent and micro contrast can be tweaked to a degree, but not quite the same as the ZF.2. The extreme edges were where the difference showed. The 21mm Zf.2 were really good and any wave or distortion was tweeked nicely. Branches on trees miles away maintained excellent acuity.
    For an all around excellent lens the Nikon 24mm1.4 G is fantastic, but if i'm going to use AF it will probably be in the 35-50mm range for the wide action photos.

  32. #32
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Exactly why I got the Sigma 35mm 1.4
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Unless Tim, or anyone else, can convince me there's a way to critically focus the Leica M240 on an off-centre subject then it looks increasingly like I'll be picking up a D800E together with a 14-24/f2.8 and a 85/f1.8G in the very near future.

    As an aside, can anyone point me towards an image comparison between the 14-24 and the ZF.2 21mm on a D800 or D800E?

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    Re: Lens Insight

    How hard is it to get a Sammy 14 that performs?

  35. #35
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    How hard is it to get a Sammy 14 that performs?
    I got lucky first time and as anyone who knows me well will tell you, that almost never happens! Most people seem to get a good one first or second attempt as far as I hear.

  36. #36
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Unless Tim, or anyone else, can convince me there's a way to critically focus the Leica M240 on an off-centre subject then it looks increasingly like I'll be picking up a D800E together with a 14-24/f2.8 and a 85/f1.8G in the very near future.

    As an aside, can anyone point me towards an image comparison between the 14-24 and the ZF.2 21mm on a D800 or D800E?
    Keith, I will be looking into the new M in depth very very soon ;-)

    In the meantime: if what you mean is 'critically' as in 'perfectly then obviously it depends on two things: the particular lens and the Live View.

    Flatter field lenses on a really well-adjusted rangefinder can do this by very careful F&R but I suspect you mean more critical than that (or more reliably so) in which case it'll depend on the exact part of the FOV through which you can Live View focus at full magnification, and how clear the screen is. But if you think the D800 will certainly be easier, you might be wrong. I don't, these days, ever trust focus points on the D800 other than the central cross hair ones. F&R isn't usually good enough due to the fact that so many of the lenses have curved fields of focus. And the magnified Live View is good in that you can place it anywhere in the frame but bad in that it really is quite unclear.

    WRT the comparison you need, Lloyd Chambers has a lot of that stuff but the exact comparison you need, on a D800E, isn't there AFAIK.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    I have acquired a D800E (it arrived today), along with Sigma 85mm f1.4 and Nkkor 24mm PC-E D3.5D, Like Guy, I come from / still have medium format digital and expect - unrealistically I suspect - similar lens quality in 35mm format. The Sigma delivers, the 24mm PC-E the jury is still out on. I am now looking for a medium standard zoom and wonder if the Tamron 24-70 F2.8 VR is up to the job. I have already seen a number of my test shots are showing signs of camera shake, and VR looks a good bet and that lens looks to match the equivalent Nikon.

    However, what really matters now is quality, quality, quality. I see no reason not to expect edge to edge to performance, and if its out there, I want it, preferebaly from Nikon but otherwise another manufacturer. Would the Tamron be a mistake? Should I stick to primes? There is a lot of choice....

    I have always been a fan of Nikon, used to use an F100 and latterly a D700 for a while. I expect near-Hassy performance but with better high ISO.

    Quentin
    Quentin Bargate
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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Keith, I will be looking into the new M in depth very very soon ;-)

    In the meantime: if what you mean is 'critically' as in 'perfectly then obviously it depends on two things: the particular lens and the Live View.

    Flatter field lenses on a really well-adjusted rangefinder can do this by very careful F&R but I suspect you mean more critical than that (or more reliably so) in which case it'll depend on the exact part of the FOV through which you can Live View focus at full magnification, and how clear the screen is. But if you think the D800 will certainly be easier, you might be wrong. I don't, these days, ever trust focus points on the D800 other than the central cross hair ones. F&R isn't usually good enough due to the fact that so many of the lenses have curved fields of focus. And the magnified Live View is good in that you can place it anywhere in the frame but bad in that it really is quite unclear.
    Tim, critically as in reliably so.

    My understanding is that M240 magnified liveview is limited to the centre of the screen. Great if this coincides with the subject but useless if it doesn't. Hoorah for the introduction, boo for the implementation. I'd love to know if this limitation was known to Leica from the outset or if it snuck up on them and bit them on their bum. Leica have progressed from centre point rangefinder to centre point magnified liveview.

    I'm certainly not expecting the D800's liveview to be anything like perfect or to be anything like as good as Canon's, but at least it gives you a chance by allowing you to place focus within the frame. AF, micro adjust and a reasonable viewfinder add to those chances.

    Should add, I'm looking forward to your test.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Unless Tim, or anyone else, can convince me there's a way to critically focus the Leica M240 on an off-centre subject ...
    I don't know that I can convince you. And I don't understand Tashley's ambivalence.

    But the ability to critically, precisely focus using Live View on off-center subjects is precisely why I prefer to use a Live View camera for any macro and tabletop work, basically any subject matter that requires the camera be locked in position carefully. It does this job as well as or better than using a 4x5 inch ground glass with magnifier, IMO, and far far better than any kind of AF system I've ever used.

    The new M uses the same EVF that I have for the X2 and Olympus Micro-FourThirds cameras. It's a very good EVF with excellent sharpness, very easy to focus manually with, even on the X2 which has a relatively clumsy focus by wire control on manual focus. And I bet the new M's LCD is quite up to the task as well.

    G

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I don't know that I can convince you. And I don't understand Tashley's ambivalence.

    But the ability to critically, precisely focus using Live View on off-center subjects is precisely why I prefer to use a Live View camera for any macro and tabletop work, basically any subject matter that requires the camera be locked in position carefully.
    G
    Ah, good old focus and recompose

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    ... My understanding is that M240 magnified liveview is limited to the centre of the screen. Great if this coincides with the subject but useless if it doesn't. Hoorah for the introduction, boo for the implementation. ...
    If true, that's a serious negative. It's not a restriction with the X2 or GXR, or any of the Micro-FourThirds cameras, and hasn't been with any of the other Live View cameras I've used. First I've seen it ... I checked and it was in Ming Thein's review comments on the new M, but that's the only placed I was able to find the reference.

    Of course we don't have access to the new M instruction manual yet which would be the definitive source.

    G

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If true, that's a serious negative. It's not a restriction with the X2 or GXR, or any of the Micro-FourThirds cameras, and hasn't been with any of the other Live View cameras I've used. First I've seen it ... I checked and it was in Ming Thein's review comments on the new M, but that's the only placed I was able to find the reference.

    Of course we don't have access to the new M instruction manual yet which would be the definitive source.

    G
    Well I do not see what else should be in LV if it is magnified? But I must say I almost never use magnified LV on my OMD, so I was not really disturbed about that.

    But I could see using mainly focus peaking with LV or EVF on the M anyway. So it would not be an issue for me I think.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Ah, good old focus and recompose
    Well, the point is that with any of my Live View cameras I could compose and set up the scene, then focus critically. Your comment was the first time I'd heard that the "targeting zoom" facility that's in every other Live View camera I've had since 2004 wasn't enabled on the new M.

    I've used this capability on the Ricoh GXR and Panasonic G1 countless times to set focus on an off-center subject element.

    G

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If true, that's a serious negative. It's not a restriction with the X2 or GXR, or any of the Micro-FourThirds cameras, and hasn't been with any of the other Live View cameras I've used. First I've seen it ... I checked and it was in Ming Thein's review comments on the new M, but that's the only placed I was able to find the reference.

    Of course we don't have access to the new M instruction manual yet which would be the definitive source.

    G
    Godfrey, central magnified liveview only has been confirmed by several beta testers. Apparently it cannot be rectified by firmware as it is a limitation of the sensor.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Well I do not see what else should be in LV if it is magnified? But I must say I almost never use magnified LV on my OMD, so I was not really disturbed about that.

    But I could see using mainly focus peaking with LV or EVF on the M anyway. So it would not be an issue for me I think.
    I find that focus peaking is great for getting the focus in the ballpark, but for critical focusing accuracy I want a 4x to 10x magnification (depending upon focal length) without peaking turned on (just like I used to do with an optical ground glass and a magnifier). Being able to target the center of the zoom area has been a major boon for static work that requires critical focus, for me anyway.

    G

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Focus peaking is a non starter for *critical* focus.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Godfrey, central magnified liveview only has been confirmed by several beta testers. Apparently it cannot be rectified by firmware as it is a limitation of the sensor.
    Again, if true that is a major disadvantage to the implementation.

    I can't believe it's a limitation of the sensor itself ... how could that be? ... the sensor just collects intensity information and transfers that data to a set of fast storage registers through an A->D converter. If it's a hardware limitation, it means that the design of the video system which takes that data and relays it, after conversion to RGB, etc, does not allow for windowing the sampled sensor data ... it has a fixed window on the center of the data field which it uses for magnification overlays.

    Feh, that's an annoyance.

    G

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Again, if true that is a major disadvantage to the implementation.

    I can't believe it's a limitation of the sensor itself ... how could that be? ...
    It's come from the horse's mouth via beta testers, Jono, Chris and Ming.

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    It's come from the horse's mouth via beta testers, Jono, Chris and Ming.
    Um, with all due respect to the beta testers, they can only state what they've been told or inferred from what they've been told about technical implementation details like this. I don't recall that Jono said anything about it (I'll re-read his report...), Ming sounded as if he was relaying what someone told him a little bit casually, and I'm not sure who Chris is ... :-)

    Ah well, another feature request for type 241. :-)

    G

    addendum: Just read through Jono's review. He doesn't mention this limitation at all that I could find. Ming does. Who is Chris ...? ;-)

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    Re: Lens Insight

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I can't believe it's a limitation of the sensor itself ... how could that be?
    The hardware can't run full resolution at video frame rates. The sensor can't be read at those rates, and ADC can't sample it, and the DSP can't process it.

    So there are a few possibilities:
    1. The sensor allows capturing video from a center crop area.
    2. The sensor allows capturing video from an arbitrary window.
    3. The firmware switches from video to a simulation by continuously capturing stills and displaying a crop area. This would run at the max frame rate of the camera's still mode.

    It sounds like Leica does #1 and the hardware can't do #2. They COULD do #3, if they can get up to 6-8 fps. At 3 fps it's too choppy probably. #3 requires shutterless capture as well (unless you don't mind the shutter rattling, and the wear and tear would be bad).

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