Zeiss 55mm 1.4... this is going to cost me

[RVB]

I think you can only consider an S lens a bargain if you've spend the £16k needed to get a body to put it on! I'd really like to try an S but have resisted because I'd struggle to afford it. Some really nice glass on the D800 will suit me personally.

Good times!

Another option is a used S2 on ebay,they can be bought for about $8k which is a long way off 16k sterling and not much more than a 1DX new..

 

[mjr]

That is indeed true RVB, 2nd hand off ebay I'm sure it's possible to buy one for that, I would want an S though as you state, it's a better camera and they aren't quite at the $8k level, soon maybe!

 

[jduncan]

Apart from A.F (which is a big deal imho)the S system offers leaf shutters which is a great bonus over the 1/250th sec sync speed of Canikon..

If you do buy an S/S2 I think the S is worth the extra dough.. it's a better handling camera,although I still think that Leica should get with the program and add an 80mp sensor to the next version so we can really make the most of the glass..

I believe an 80mp sensor will not that good. The sensor on the S series is not that big (photosite size will be affected) . This leads to an other issue: Leica decided to use a custom size sensor. This sensor is a Kodak sensor, so we could say that Leica has the same issue that Hasselblad has: limited sensor options.

From the results of the D7100 we could anticipate 40-50mpixels for the next generation DSLR. I believe that Leica could try to match that, or move to CMOS (loosing part of the look, but gaming in other areas) and show superior dynamic range.

Leica is all about prestige, ethos and lenses.

Best regards,
J. Duncan

 

[AreBee]

RVB,

Apart from A.F (which is a big deal imho)the S system offers leaf shutters which is a great bonus over the 1/250th sec sync speed of Canikon..

The appeal of leaf shutters to me is the potential reduction in vibration...and it is well known that the S bodies utilise the focal plane shutter when engaging the leaf shutter. :loco:

If you do buy an S/S2 I think the S is worth the extra dough..

If I was purchasing new then I would. There is zero chance of me puchasing a body new. Lenses, yes, but not the body.

Another option is a used S2 on ebay,they can be bought for about $8k...

I know. I have been observing them slowly reduce in price. My problem is that I consider the body overpriced even at £8k.

 

[RVB]

RVB,



The appeal of leaf shutters to me is the potential reduction in vibration...and it is well known that the S bodies utilise the focal plane shutter when engaging the leaf shutter. :loco:



If I was purchasing new then I would. There is zero chance of me puchasing a body new. Lenses, yes, but not the body.



I know. I have been observing them slowly reduce in price. My problem is that I consider the body overpriced even at £8k.

For me it's the flash sync and ability to control ambient light..But I wonder if a firmware update could stop the focal shutter sequence when using CS mode..?

$8000 dollars is the lowest that I've seen the S2 at which I think is about 5K sterling...

Rob

 

[RVB]

I believe an 80mp sensor will not that good. The sensor on the S series is not that big (photosite size will be affected) . This leads to an other issue: Leica decided to use a custom size sensor. This sensor is a Kodak sensor, so we could say that Leica has the same issue that Hasselblad has: limited sensor options.

From the results of the D7100 we could anticipate 40-50mpixels for the next generation DSLR. I believe that Leica could try to match that, or move to CMOS (loosing part of the look, but gaming in other areas) and show superior dynamic range.

Leica is all about prestige, ethos and lenses.

Best regards,
J. Duncan

Duncan I think the next sensor will come from CMOSIS since they supplied the new M sensor.. just a guess but I wouldn't be surprised..

If they used 4.7micron pixels like the D800 then it would be about 60MP and if they used 3.1micron like the D7100 then I believe it would be about 120mp,I doubt the next S will use 6micron's again.. but I could be way off..

best

Rob

 

[craigrudlin]

The Leica S does seem to be overpriced, probably is in reality. But, the viewfinder is bright, clear, and allows manual focusing effortlessly. There is a certain pleasure in the camera's simplicity. It is critical to realize that its design, the demanding nature of its sensor and especially the lenses, definitely changes how (and to some extent what) you photograph, the images you create and the way you visualize your "art".

I will relate an incident that happened just minutes ago. A professional photographer and curator (who knows I use a S2) came to see a preview
of my exhibition on Iceland. He pauses in front of one image, takes off his glasses, looks again, then says, "that is what I am talking about... There is three dimensionality in this image. It is not just the resolution or "sharpness", it is the the 3-dimensional aspect
(he is pointing to one object in the image) . I cannot get that with either my Canon or my Nikon (D800), even with L lenses."

The question then becomes, how much is that character and draw
worth? How important is that to your artistic statement?

 

[RVB]

The Leica S does seem to be overpriced, probably is in reality. But, the viewfinder is bright, clear, and allows manual focusing effortlessly. There is a certain pleasure in the camera's simplicity. It is critical to realize that its design, the demanding nature of its sensor and especially the lenses, definitely changes how (and to some extent what) you photograph, the images you create and the way you visualize your "art".

I will relate an incident that happened just minutes ago. A professional photographer and curator (who knows I use a S2) came to see a preview
of my exhibition on Iceland. He pauses in front of one image, takes off his glasses, looks again, then says, "that is what I am talking about... There is three dimensionality in this image. It is not just the resolution or "sharpness", it is the the 3-dimensional aspect
(he is pointing to one object in the image) . I cannot get that with either my Canon or my Nikon (D800), even with L lenses."

The question then becomes, how much is that character and draw
worth? How important is that to your artistic statement?

I agree with everything here,it is a precision instrument that encourages the user to take a different approach to the creative process..regarding the price,for a large sensor CCD camera with dual shutters the price is not so bad,it's around the same price as the IQ140 and H5D-40..

Of course I wish it was cheaper.. ;-)

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I looked at some full resolution samples photos that Zeiss posted on flickr. I do find some of them rather impressive. Here's one:

All sizes | Otus 1.4/55 - High-contrast, Sample 02 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This lens is a strong argument for the D800 vs. medium format. If Zeiss comes up with more of the same quality, that will be very bad news for some MF manufacturers.

 

[RVB]

Jorgen,I think the lack of A.F will remain an obstacle for many shooters,but If Sigma can produce similar I.Q in their new Art lenses at a lower price that may make a bigger difference,the 35 1.4 is a great lens,

But the bigger sensor will always have the advantage providing the tech keeps up with 35mm

 

[Jeffg53]

I haven't used a Sigma lense in many years, and my memory isn't fond. Have they now started making lenses to match Zeiss and Leica? My recollection is that they always had a limitation of some sort. The only strong point was price.

 

[RVB]

I haven't used a Sigma lense in many years, and my memory isn't fond. Have they now started making lenses to match Zeiss and Leica? My recollection is that they always had a limitation of some sort. The only strong point was price.

If you can rent a 35mm 1.4 Art lens or try one at a dealer then you will be able to decide,it's very good and has great contrast at wide apertures ,better than canon or nikon's best 35.. Build quality is also excellent ,it's very different to previous Sigma's,take a look at the new 130-300 2,8 as well

 

[Jeffg53]

Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm pretty set with the D800E now with Leica R adapted and the Zeiss 55 and 135.

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

SIGMA is actually reworking his whole lens line. I think we should expect 2 to 4 years before having a new useful SIGMA lenses panoply. They also design new lenses such as the 18-35f1.8, wonderful lens.

For me, this is logic that they should work on a new 50f1.4 ART lens, justly to counter this self proclaimed "wunderbar" Zeiss Lens.

The actual 35f1.4 ART is a masterpiece, it is notorious. This is the best 35mm out there. It is a solid piece of metal/composite and glass. They have nothing to envies from Zeiss about that. Actually, I prefer the SIGMA over the Nikon big times in build construction. They also test and calculate it to resolve the last foveon chip, which is very hard to resolve. Also the 35mm feature a lot of elements too, this is not a simple optic.

SIGMA is on a new way and we will forget about the old design once new lenses will reach the market. Let say a 24mm, a 35mm, a 50mm, a 85mm and why not a 135mm...

There will be always a sort of apprehension from consumer PoV about buying a SIGMA lens over a NIkon or Canon lens but SIGMA will prove that it is wrong and stupid, at the end. The Price, the excellence of build quality and the excellence of optical performance. They do and can do it.

So, lets wait for the new 50f1.4 (why not a 55f1.4). Sure it will be awesome and very close (if not identical) to this zeiss in performances, + AF

Do not forget that the lenses are mostly telecentric now, in SIGMA world. They are obliged to resolve the corners of a chip who do not have micro-lenses, as far as I know.

I think SIGMA will overcome Zeiss in a not so far future, in term market/technical reality. I mean, Japan people do not joke... You might LoL at my assessment but I'm pretty serious !

 

[RVB]

Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 Lens Review on Vimeo

A quick review of the 18-35mm 1.8 Sigma.. Another of Sigma's latest generation..

 

[fotografz]

SIGMA is actually reworking his whole lens line. I think we should expect 2 to 4 years before having a new useful SIGMA lenses panoply. They also design new lenses such as the 18-35f1.8, wonderful lens.

For me, this is logic that they should work on a new 50f1.4 ART lens, justly to counter this self proclaimed "wunderbar" Zeiss Lens.

The actual 35f1.4 ART is a masterpiece, it is notorious. This is the best 35mm out there. It is a solid piece of metal/composite and glass. They have nothing to envies from Zeiss about that. Actually, I prefer the SIGMA over the Nikon big times in build construction. They also test and calculate it to resolve the last foveon chip, which is very hard to resolve. Also the 35mm feature a lot of elements too, this is not a simple optic.

SIGMA is on a new way and we will forget about the old design once new lenses will reach the market. Let say a 24mm, a 35mm, a 50mm, a 85mm and why not a 135mm...

There will be always a sort of apprehension from consumer PoV about buying a SIGMA lens over a NIkon or Canon lens but SIGMA will prove that it is wrong and stupid, at the end. The Price, the excellence of build quality and the excellence of optical performance. They do and can do it.

So, lets wait for the new 50f1.4 (why not a 55f1.4). Sure it will be awesome and very close (if not identical) to this zeiss in performances, + AF

Do not forget that the lenses are mostly telecentric now, in SIGMA world. They are obliged to resolve the corners of a chip who do not have micro-lenses, as far as I know.

I think SIGMA will overcome Zeiss in a not so far future, in term market/technical reality. I mean, Japan people do not joke... You might LoL at my assessment but I'm pretty serious !

Sounds good on paper!

I've been waiting forever for Zeiss to offer a ZA 35/1.4 for the A mount Sony 35mm DSLR cameras I use for professional paying work. I need AF so adapting the excellent Leica R to Sony A mount was not an option ... (if it can even be adapted).

So when this 35/1.4 Sigma Art lens became available I did some homework. While it was universally touted as a step in the right direction for Sigma, and a truly good and well made lens, I ran into too many comments by credible users that delayed my purchase.

Low light AF was one issue ... despite the f/1.4 max aperture, it was deemed by many as slower to focus than the Zeiss lenses ... citing lenses like the ZA 24-70 workhorse zoom as faster/surer ... even slower than some camera driven AF Tokina f/2.8 and older Minolta AF lenses in dim conditions (exactly where one uses a fast aperture optic).

Plus, many stated that the Bokeh was nice, but showed more abrupt tonal transitions than the fast aperture Zeiss ZA lenses. I'm after reasonable consistency from one focal length to the next, and stuff like that is what I look for in a lens system ... which Leica and Zeiss are very good at delivering. The new ZA50/1.4 delivers better optical performance than the older ZA85/1.4, like much less CA if any at all, while retaining the color, contrast, and superb tonal roll off I expect of Zeiss.

Lastly, one user mentioned the need to micro adjust his Sigma 35/1.4 copy to -7 for accurate f/1.4 images ... in contrast, my new Zeiss ZA50/1.4 required none.

Cudos to Sigma for stepping up their game ... but I'll wait a bit longer to see if Zeiss ever delivers a ZA35/1.4 ... in the meantime make do with the new ZA 50/1.4 ASPH.

- Marc

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

I think you should test it to make your own judgement Rent it and try it. Better having an AF, even if slow in low light (that also depend of the user behind the camera...).

For example, the 85f1.4G is also slow in low light in some situations... I mean, it can't focus at all !! On the D700/D800 I had some problems, less on the D4. Same goes for the 85f1.8G, but better results at the end.

The Sigma can be manually focused if needed so I don't really see any problems after all. Just test the f1.2 canon line in dim conditions

 

[RVB]

Marc raised some valid point's but the Bokeh issue is less relevant to landscape or cityscape shooters,another point is that this lens is less than half the price of the Nikon 35 and a hell of a lot cheaper than the Zeiss 55

 

[Jeffg53]

Point is that I don't give a rat's about the price as long as I can afford it. I will always buy the best that I can possibly afford. I've always worked on the basis of wanting my tools to be better than my ability. That's why I used Hasseblad for many years. I didn't buy into the D800E because it was better than the H, rather I'm getting too old to lug it around.

 

[RVB]

Point is that I don't give a rat's about the price as long as I can afford it. I will always buy the best that I can possibly afford. I've always worked on the basis of wanting my tools to be better than my ability. That's why I used Hasseblad for many years. I didn't buy into the D800E because it was better than the H, rather I'm getting too old to lug it around.

I understand,you just want quality,but Sigma's price is a strong selling point of the lens,a lot of people like a bargain..

here is an interview with Dr Hubert Nasse discussing this Zeiss 55Dr. Hubert Nasse Explains The New Zeiss 55mm f1.4 Lens Design. « Wide Open Camera

The weight of this lens makes even a d800 kit pretty much as heavy as a Leica S with 70mm...