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Thread: D7100... wonderfully versatile

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Nikon D7100 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review

    I can't help being fascinated, impressed etc. The new D7100 that will probably sooner or later replace my D300 is so packed with features that it makes me wonder why other cameras are needed at all. Admittedly, the D800 offers a tiny bit more resolution, the D4 does everything a bit better (at 5 times the price and twice the weight) and the D5200 packs the same number of pixels in an even smaller package. Still, except for the lack of an articulated LCD, I can't see a single photographic application that cannot be done at to at least 90% perfection with this little wonder.

    I will still use m4/3 for many things (size and quality of lenses, better, more functional video). But the D7100 is destined to become a winner, and I question seriously if I will ever take the step up to 35mm digital. It would be nice, but not really necessary.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile


    and no blurring filter

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    I must say I am impressed.

    I was very tempted by the Pentax K5IIs as it was one of the first really compact DSLRs which did not have an AA filter on their 16MB sensor and produces exceptional images, but still with a very basic AF system and a somehow limited lens lineup.

    Now the D7100 with clearly NO AA filter and a stunning 51 point AF system, covering almost the complete image area, as well and all the other wonderfull improvements over the D7000 (which I owned for a while and only sold because the D800E became available with no AA filter) is really one of the best news - at least for me!

    I might over time abandon m43 not because its bad but just because the way APSC from Nikon is evolving especially with the D7100 (24MP, no AA, 100% OVF which after all usage of EVFs I still prefer) and the much wider range of lenses! Plus the much larger sensor allows for more freedom in sensor design, higher MP with higher ISO and I really wonder if m43 will ever come close towards 24MP. Plus so far I am not aware of any m43 (or 43) camera without AA filter. And I am slowly getting tired of further waiting .....

    The D7100 is somehow larger than the OMD, but hey - either I do photography seriously, then I can carry something still small, which is easy to hold and operable and not so tiny I start getting issues with operation, or I go for a really small advanced P&S - my favorite (system) here currently the Pentax Q. So m43 at least for me is becoming kind of not necessary.

    FF (D800E) on the other side I will continue using for really demanding high quality and high resolution, mainly instead of my Hasselblad (I know MFD can never be replaced, but simply too big for my purposes.

    So finally I am really happy with the direction Nikon is going lately! One wish I would have that they update some of their DX lenses to meet the requirements of a 24MP non AA filter sensor.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    So finally I am really happy with the direction Nikon is going lately! One wish I would have that they update some of their DX lenses to meet the requirements of a 24MP non AA filter sensor.
    A 15 or 16mm DX prime would be nice, thank you, but it will be interesting to see how the Tokina 11-16mm performs on this camera.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    But there's a catch: Max buffer size in RAW is 7 (lossless compressed) or 9 (compressed) frames. Unfortunately, that makes it a no go for me

    D400? Hello, Nikon??

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    With no AA filter this makes you wonder if the D600 is worth the extra cost in a way. As long as FF is not a big deal to you , I would buy this instead.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    But there's a catch: Max buffer size in RAW is 7 (lossless compressed) or 9 (compressed) frames. Unfortunately, that makes it a no go for me

    D400? Hello, Nikon??
    What are you looking for to shoot?

    And does the OMD better? If you manage to get the shot in C-AF with the OMD?

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    With no AA filter this makes you wonder if the D600 is worth the extra cost in a way. As long as FF is not a big deal to you , I would buy this instead.
    Hm ... I wonder why they did not make the D600 without AA filter ????

    I am looking for a really compact DSLR with high IQ, while the K5IIs would be nice, it means another system for me, plus Nikon offers definitely the more wide and versatile lens range.

    This makes the D7100 so interesting for me

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    The new stuff- "Spot white balance with liveview". I would be interested to see how that works.

    I hope the AA less sensor and such will come to a mirrorless cam (Sony or even Nikon). It is not worth the bother for me to be lugging a DSLR with an APS-C sensor. Been there, done that and won't do it again.

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    I don't shoot sports so the buffer does not bother me, the lack of AA filter and a comfortable 24MP is a plus. What worries me is QC as I bought the D600 early and have had to deal with a lot of crap on the sensor. Then the fact that 3 months after introduction they literally drop the price $500-600 by offering a kit for less than the $2100 I paid for the body.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    What are you looking for to shoot?

    And does the OMD better? If you manage to get the shot in C-AF with the OMD?
    Motor sports. EVF is out of the question, since the viewfinder only shows the shots I've taken until the buffer is empty. That makes pan shots very tricky, and pan shots are where the money is, preferably with the sponsor logo sharp and in focus.

    That leaves me with Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus. Pentax would be nice, but I'm not sure about their AF and they don't have a proper distributor here. Canon works fine, but the 7D isn't exactly great for low light work. The same can be said for the D300s. 35mm would be nice (D700) but paying the price (and carrying the weight) of 500mm reach on full frame would cut too much of my profit. That leaves me with Olympus and the E-5, a camera I have decided against more times than I care to think about. Interestingly, the E-5 is still selling for nearly as much as what it went for at launch

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Motor sports. EVF is out of the question, since the viewfinder only shows the shots I've taken until the buffer is empty. That makes pan shots very tricky, and pan shots are where the money is, preferably with the sponsor logo sharp and in focus.

    That leaves me with Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus. Pentax would be nice, but I'm not sure about their AF and they don't have a proper distributor here. Canon works fine, but the 7D isn't exactly great for low light work. The same can be said for the D300s. 35mm would be nice (D700) but paying the price (and carrying the weight) of 500mm reach on full frame would cut too much of my profit. That leaves me with Olympus and the E-5, a camera I have decided against more times than I care to think about. Interestingly, the E-5 is still selling for nearly as much as what it went for at launch
    Maybe this increases with the additional grip? For the D800E I think it does.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Maybe this increases with the additional grip? For the D800E I think it does.
    No it doesn't and it wouldn't have helped. It isn't the speed that is the problem, it's the small buffer.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No it doesn't and it wouldn't have helped. It isn't the speed that is the problem, it's the small buffer.
    For the D800/D800E the battery grip increases speed from 4 to t FPS according to Nikon Website:

    "Attach the MB-D12 to the camera body to extend battery stamina. The pack accommodates a variety of batteries (see specifications) and utilizes the same integral magnesium alloy construction and weather sealing as the D800/D800E body itself. You also get approx. 6 fps continuous shooting speed* in DX format. The MB-D12 has its own dedicated shutter-release button and command dials for vertical composition shooting."

    I know that does not help for buffer size but just wanted to clarify.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D7100 ... wonderfully versatile


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    (...) Max buffer size in RAW is 7 (lossless compressed) or 9 (compressed) frames (...)

    I believe that detail strongly indicates that there will actually be something like a D400 in the very near future.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100 ... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post



    I believe that detail strongly indicates that there will actually be something like a D400 in the very near future.
    That would be nice

    I do also consider buying another D2X(s). I'm very happy with that camera and it works excellently for motor racing in daylight.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100 ... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    That would be nice

    I do also consider buying another D2X(s). I'm very happy with that camera and it works excellently for motor racing in daylight.
    But it is not really pocketable

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100 ... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    But it is not really pocketable
    At the races, having a big, heavy camera is a great help when shoveling amateurs with plastic cameras off the edge of the press photo platform. Having two is twice as efficient
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: D7100 ... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    At the races, having a big, heavy camera is a great help when shoveling amateurs with plastic cameras off the edge of the press photo platform. Having two is twice as efficient
    I see, using them as a hammer kind of ....

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    When the D7000 came out I bought one for our family ready camera . Carolyn my wife uses it daily as its always at the ready on a table in our family room . When I received the camera ...I tested it with both the well regraded DX primes and the Zeiss ZF lenses I was using . The files had more bite,edge sharpness than we had on the D3S,D3x on the screen and with small enlargements ..the files were really quite good up to about 1600 .

    The sensor that Nikon used on the D800/E is the FX equivalent(of the D7000 sensor) ..at the pixel level they were similar . I realize that its more than the sensor thats at work ....but the look at the pixel level was a good preview of the D800/E.

    One of the big advantages of the DX format was DOF and for family photographs and club events ...thats important . This should be a great all around camera if you don t expect to need large enlargements . I am happy that Nikon is stressing high IQ in a camera at less than $1200. 51AF points and no AA filter caught my eye .

    It could also provide a preview into a 50+ MP FX sensor . . Personally I don t need that much 40MP is the sweet spot for me and I know that the 23MP on the new M will be quite enough . But I expect that a 50+MP sensor targeted at IQ at base ISO would be quite attractive in a D4X body .

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    For me the D7100 will make a great backup camera to my D800e. I've been using a Sony NEX7 for that now, but Nikon optics will be a big plus. It will extend the reach of the 70-200 2.8 vr2. The Sigma 8-16 will be one of the lenses that I would add just for the new body. Very exciting stuff considering it's probably going to be under $1000 fairly soon.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    After a bit of studying, I've found that the D800(E) might work as a D300 replacement. It does 6fps in DX mode with the grip and the buffer holds 30 RAW DX files. They are available for less than $2,500 and the bonus is of course that it's a 36MP camera too. That or a used D3X.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    You don t want a D3X for action ...you have to shoot at 12bit to get 5fps...at 14bit you get 1 fps . I don t remember the buffer but the camera was too slow for tennis and I don t shoot continuous .

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    You don t want a D3X for action ...you have to shoot at 12bit to get 5fps...at 14bit you get 1 fps . I don t remember the buffer but the camera was too slow for tennis and I don t shoot continuous .
    The D800 is probably a better solution anyway, particularly the E, but I can live with 12 bit for motor sports. This also shows what a versatile camera the D800 is. Although not perfect for action, it will easily follow the D300s in DX mode, and that camera is really the only current alternative south of $5,000.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D7100... wonderfully versatile


    Jorgen, for your racing car purpose I suspect you'd be better off waiting for the coming D400 unless you want a high resolution FX camera for other purposes.


    Quoting Thom Hogan "Feb 21, 2013, The New Camera with the Old Name"

    Aside: "(...) the DX crop turns out to be a good compromise for wildlife shooting: at equal overall pixel counts you get more pixel density on distant animals with DX than you do with FX (...)"


    I guess that goes for motor sports as well ?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The D800 is probably a better solution anyway, particularly the E, but I can live with 12 bit for motor sports. This also shows what a versatile camera the D800 is. Although not perfect for action, it will easily follow the D300s in DX mode, and that camera is really the only current alternative south of $5,000.
    I haven t shot motor sports but in the winter I shot Polo in Florida . Polo has been my testing environment for my Nikon s and long lenses . Others uses Surfing ,Tennis etc aren t nearly as demanding .

    For Polo the lens to have is the 600/4 ..a beast but on a Monopod its very easy to balance . Fortunately I can drive to within 100Ft of where I might shoot . This isn t a carry all day situation . Panning with a 600 is a bit much and here a 300/2.8 is a better choice .

    I have used the D3,D3s,D3x and the D800E . This is a situation where when the horses charge the goal ..you lock on the ball and shoot 8-12 captures . By far the best alternative has been the D3S (haven t used the D4 yet ) . The responsiveness of the D3S is just better and the IQ is excellent . The color much improved over the D3 ..not as good as the D3x or the D800E .

    The advantage of the D800E has been the great files ...so if you intend to work the images ..you have plenty of room for processing . With the D3S ..you want the file to be pretty great right out of the camera ...not much room to crop for example .

    I ve shot with the guys that shoot for Sports Illustrated and I noticed that some of them edit constantly in the camera . The review each series and lock the keepers then delete everything else . This cuts down considerably the edit time when you shot in series . They assume the file is done when they turn in the card .

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Glen,
    Thank you for your writeup. I've been looking at the D3 and found at that might be a good solution in combo with my D2Xs. The latter for reach in good light and the D3 for everything else. I might even consider the D700, but they are surprisingly expensive still. I actually shot a Polo match a few weeks ago and found it very different from motor sports. Harder on the AF and more need for long lenses. The 600/4 is way beyond my budget, but I've seen some impressive racing photos taken with the Sigma 150-500 and 50-500. They are f/6.8 at the long end I believe, but I can live with that... maybe.

    Steen,
    The reason why I might not be able to wait for a possible D400 is that my D300 is dying. Today, I was informed that there's another 3 months till the racing season starts, except for a couple of endurance races, so I have more time than I thought.

    If there is a D400, I suppose it will be a real killer camera, and I'll of course regret any other camera I buy in the meantime, but that's life

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Glen,
    I might even consider the D700, but they are surprisingly expensive still.
    Jorgen,
    the D700 is certainly worth considering. I use it to shoot charreadas (Mexican rodeos) including the precision riding competition, and so far it hasn't let me down. I can't compare it to the D3(x/s), but I haven't missed any obvious shots due to camera shortcomings (with a 70-200 lens mostly at 2.8/4).
    Martin Ranger - Seattle, WA
    www.martinrangerimages.com

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    With no AA filter this makes you wonder if the D600 is worth the extra cost in a way. As long as FF is not a big deal to you , I would buy this instead.
    Yes it seems to be. I believe Nikon was to conservative with the D600. Some examples are max 1/4000 shutter speed (I know is the same that iso 200 and 1/8000 on the D700), No aperture change on video, and more than nothing the focussing system. They probably did it to protect the D800 / D800e.

    About the lack of AA filter I am convinced that with a sensor denser than the D800, the D7100 will find even less moiré.

    We need to wait for image quality tests before fully writing down the D600, in particular High ISO files (for me it's a main concern because I shoot a lot of dance), but for most users I fully agree.

    Best regards,

    J. Duncan

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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    I do not think that the majour reason pro or contra D600 will be high ISO noise. There are plenty software out there to improve this.

    For me the main reason pro or contra fullframe vs. APS-C is DOF. Do I need less DOF than it is possible with APS-C?

    The great thing about the D7100 is, that we have now next to the Pentax K5IIs finally an alternative within APS-C without AA filter in a small body with 100% Viewfinder and weather resistant.

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    New Member Walter K's Avatar
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    Re: D7100... wonderfully versatile

    I wanted buy the D600 in January because of a 150EUR bonus here in austria, but forgot to do so... Now happy because this D7100"E" is the better partner for a D800E. Already bought now a used DX2.8/17-55mm especially for the new D7100 - as my everyday camera...

    I prefer the look of photos without AA filter... (second best + working solution after Sigma Foveon...)

    Second bonus seems to be (if same sensor as D5200) terrific video quality...

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