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Thread: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    If it had an f1.8 - f2.8 lens (or at least a constant f2.8) I would be all over this camera:

    Just Posted: Nikon Coolpix A preview - hands on with the DX compact: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    If it had an f1.8 - f2.8 lens (or at least a constant f2.8) I would be all over this camera:

    Just Posted: Nikon Coolpix A preview - hands on with the DX compact: Digital Photography Review
    Well it has a constant 2.8/28 equivalent, so what is the point?

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    Senior Member Rawfa's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Doh! Ive just realized they also updated their smaller compact so I ended up mixing the info. Ive only now realized that it has a fixed 28mm.

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Anyway, I am absolutely disappointed with the battery life - just around 250 shots - and that without any EVF.

    Why could they not take the battery of the V1/D7000/D800 and just make the camera a tiny bit bigger and give it 800 shots? Why do we have today a stupid competition in making cameras even smaller than they need to be and sacrificing practical things by that?

    Or why not at least make it 2/28 ???? Or why not have that ring around the lens assigned as f-stop ring????

    I am mildly disappointed at least - just another me too expensive P&S
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Or why not look to the success that Fuji has with the X100, at the same price, a faster lens (that doesn't retract because it doesn't need to) and a viewfinder, a hybrid one at that. But I guess it will sell to those who think that there's only Nikon and Canon and nothing else.

    Oh well... small digital cameras were never Nikon's strong side.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Or why not look to the success that Fuji has with the X100, at the same price, a faster lens (that doesn't retract because it doesn't need to) and a viewfinder, a hybrid one at that. But I guess it will sell to those who think that there's only Nikon and Canon and nothing else.

    Oh well... small digital cameras were never Nikon's strong side.
    Indeed I would have long ago went Fuji, if there would have been decent RAW support. As this was not the case (and I think still is problematic) Fuji is just dead for me and I keep no longer looking!

    I think my solution will be the new Leica M with my 2/35 or 2/28 and I am done and have a very compact and light weight camera too.

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    The XE-1 is a bargain!

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Anyway, I am absolutely disappointed with the battery life - just around 250 shots - and that without any EVF.

    Why could they not take the battery of the V1/D7000/D800 and just make the camera a tiny bit bigger and give it 800 shots?
    you have to be kidding, I used to get around with an OM4 or Contax T2 with a 36 roll in the camera and one spare in my pocket, 72 frames all up. Clearly one design criteria is that this is compact and some things HAVE to be sacrificed to make a camera small, in this case power is a design choice they made. However personally I find 250 images over 72 no sacrifice. If anyone thinks its easy, why not engineer your own camera and lets see your 800 shot wonder.

    Personally I don't see the X100 as any "competitor" to this camera, different focal length and a big physical size difference. This Nikon could possibly fit in a shirt pocket the X100 barely goes in a large coat pocket

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I think my solution will be the new Leica M with my 2/35 or 2/28 and I am done and have a very compact and light weight camera too.
    That's of course in a completely different price bracket.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    you have to be kidding, I used to get around with an OM4 or Contax T2 with a 36 roll in the camera and one spare in my pocket, 72 frames all up. Clearly one design criteria is that this is compact and some things HAVE to be sacrificed to make a camera small, in this case power is a design choice they made. However personally I find 250 images over 72 no sacrifice. If anyone thinks its easy, why not engineer your own camera and lets see your 800 shot wonder.

    Personally I don't see the X100 as any "competitor" to this camera, different focal length and a big physical size difference. This Nikon could possibly fit in a shirt pocket the X100 barely goes in a large coat pocket
    But we are no longer in OM4 / T2 times. BTW I shot OM2 and OM4, while OM2 battery life was great (maybe 2 years and many thousand shots) OM4 just sucked as it did even consume power if camera was in quiet mode and there was no power off as on OM2 - finally made me sell it pretty quick).

    You are right, 250 shots is quite ok in terms of old world shooting, but they claim the A behaves like a DSLR with 4fps and continuous shooting - so if you start using like that then you can do the math yourself how fast you need to recharge or a second battery. Plus usually 250 shots are much less also in normal operation, as there is LCD viewing, changing settings etc etc. - most times for me results in 150-200 shots.

    Even Leica X2 can do better than this and I consider the A as direct competitor to X2 for example.

    Plus a bit more size (thickness) I would at least have liked much better. I am done with too small cameras. If I need really small I take my iPhone, which BTW I do carry always with me.

    Times are changing ....

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    But we are no longer in OM4 / T2 times. BTW I shot OM2 and OM4, while OM2 battery life was great (maybe 2 years and many thousand shots) OM4 just sucked as it did even consume power if camera was in quiet mode and there was no power off as on OM2 - finally made me sell it pretty quick).

    You are right, 250 shots is quite ok in terms of old world shooting, but they claim the A behaves like a DSLR with 4fps and continuous shooting - so if you start using like that then you can do the math yourself how fast you need to recharge or a second battery. Plus usually 250 shots are much less also in normal operation, as there is LCD viewing, changing settings etc etc. - most times for me results in 150-200 shots.

    Even Leica X2 can do better than this and I consider the A as direct competitor to X2 for example.

    Plus a bit more size (thickness) I would at least have liked much better. I am done with too small cameras. If I need really small I take my iPhone, which BTW I do carry always with me.

    Times are changing ....
    Its still 7 times more frames than the OM4 (film) days. So I think the times HAVE already changed enough. Its easy to sit and demand more when you don't have to design it and make it work. I am sure Nikon would have done more if it was that easy - the design criteria for this camera was to keep it small, you can't have it all. Anyway, I often read of users carrying spare batteries even though I don't need to. Problem solved.

    You don't want a thicker camera but the iPhone which is probably 1/3 as thick as this camera is ok? huh?

    I don't compare it to the X2? Different focal lengths.

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Are you getting one, Tim?

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Are you getting one, Tim?
    Likely I'm not getting a Nikon A but I would not rule it out. At this point I am waiting to see if these Internet rumors of an APS-C Ricoh GRD is true. I would tend to stay with the Ricoh as I have had all 4 models of GRD and know them better.

    If no GRD V ever surfaced the Nikon would be high on my list. I'd like to see if issues like shutter lag and IQ are good first.

    I just believe designing a small device like this must be tough and if I sound defensive of it is because I believe these cameras are often design compromises. I think we are lucky to have manufacturers make them. Many have wanted such designs for years.
    Last edited by Tim; 5th March 2013 at 15:44.

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Ok, ok... I have to admit that it's smaller than I imagined. Much smaller. With the low light capabilities of a DX sensor, I wouldn't worry too much about f/2.8. A larger aperture would obviously have made it larger. If they make a trio, like Sigma has done, it could actually be an interesting travel orchestra. Actually, I would do nicely with just two, a 28 and an 85mm eqv.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Its still 7 times more frames than the OM4 (film) days. So I think the times HAVE already changed enough. Its easy to sit and demand more when you don't have to design it and make it work. I am sure Nikon would have done more if it was that easy - the design criteria for this camera was to keep it small, you can't have it all. Anyway, I often read of users carrying spare batteries even though I don't need to. Problem solved.

    You don't want a thicker camera but the iPhone which is probably 1/3 as thick as this camera is ok? huh?

    I don't compare it to the X2? Different focal lengths.
    Well, your opinion versus mine, be it - I could not care less!

    Wish you good luck in finding the right camera for your needs, maybe Coolpix A

    Best regards

    Peter

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    You are right, 250 shots is quite ok in terms of old world shooting, but they claim the A behaves like a DSLR with 4fps and continuous shooting - so if you start using like that then you can do the math yourself how fast you need to recharge or a second battery. Plus usually 250 shots are much less also in normal operation, as there is LCD viewing, changing settings etc etc. - most times for me results in 150-200 shots....
    Is someone really going to go out and machine gun 250 shots with a small 28mm compact?

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    I think it might have a market, however the spec are a bit "me too (too little, too late)" compared to what is its real competition (meaning, compact, fixed focal around 28-35mm, large sensor, around $1.000 US):

    - Fuji X100s, faster lens (though a bit longer) and a viewfinder;
    - Sigma DP1 Merrill, Foveon sensor (whether you like to deal with its limitations or not, the detail it produces are incredible)
    - Leica X2, longer but not faster lens, quite a bit more expensive;
    - Sony RX-1, larger sensor, faster lens (though a bit longer), however in a completely different price league (3x);

    I was interested to see what Landscape / Fine Art photography applications there might be for such new, high-spec'd compact cameras - to see if there are viable alternative to lugging tons of equipment around - and I ended up writing an article on my blog (see it HERE if interested). My conclusions are that there is hope - even if we are not yet exactly there, Sigma DPx Merrills and the Sony RX-1 are very interesting propositions. If you shoot street, the Fuji X100s and the Leica are appealing as well, while for Landscape / Fine Art they are a bit under spec'd on some spec or the other.

    By the way, what for me are the most interesting of the bunch for my application, the Sigmas, have an abysmally low battery life and yet I find them very usable (though carrying 5-6 extra batteries! )
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    I think it might have a market, however the spec are a bit "me too (too little, too late)" compared to what is its real competition (meaning, compact, fixed focal around 28-35mm, large sensor, around $1.000 US):

    - Fuji X100s, faster lens (though a bit longer) and a viewfinder;
    - Sigma DP1 Merrill, Foveon sensor (whether you like to deal with its limitations or not, the detail it produces are incredible)
    - Leica X2, longer but not faster lens, quite a bit more expensive;
    - Sony RX-1, larger sensor, faster lens (though a bit longer), however in a completely different price league (3x);
    The Nikon is smaller than all of those and that is its strong point. This Nikon will sell for $800 or so in a few months. Also, all of the otheres (besides the Sigma) are more expensive. The bottom line with a Coolpix A is you either value its small size or you won't get it.
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    The Nikon is smaller than all of those and that is its strong point. This Nikon will sell for $800 or so in a few months. Also, all of the otheres (besides the Sigma) are more expensive. The bottom line with a Coolpix A is you either value its small size or you won't get it.
    True, in the end it will all boil down (as always) to user requirements / priorities. Users who value size the most will make different decisions than users who value image detail, or a viewfinder, and so on. I.e. if you value battery life or video, the Sigmas are out before even starting
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    The Nikon Coolpix A has 2 things I do not like:

    1) it is too small again

    2) it has no EVF built in

    1) could have easily been solved with 2)
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    The Nikon Coolpix A has 2 things I do not like:

    1) it is too small again

    2) it has no EVF built in

    1) could have easily been solved with 2)
    Then it is simply not for you... right?

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    Then it is simply not for you... right?
    How you know?

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    This review reports that the Nikon A can manage more images per charge than 250, so no disappointment there.

    "I found battery life to be surprisingly good; 500-600 images per charge was routinely achievable"
    Review: The Nikon Coolpix A

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    IQ looks very good.

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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    The Nikon Coolpix A has 2 things I do not like:

    1) it is too small again

    2) it has no EVF built in

    1) could have easily been solved with 2)
    For those who like a little bigger camera and and EVF I would just buy an OMD with a 12/2.0 lens.

    For my part I find the Nikon A attractive BECAUSE it is small. (but still it seems easy to hold and operate for my hands)

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    Nikon has it backwards....

    They should have put the sensor from this camera in the 1 series and series 1 sensor in this camera...
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    Re: APS-C sensor compact by Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    - Fuji X100s, faster lens (though a bit longer) and a viewfinder;
    - Sigma DP1 Merrill, Foveon sensor (whether you like to deal with its limitations or not, the detail it produces are incredible)
    - Leica X2, longer but not faster lens, quite a bit more expensive;
    - Sony RX-1, larger sensor, faster lens (though a bit longer), however in a completely different price league (3x)
    Very eager to see how the new Ricoh GR fits into this list. Fixed focus 28mm equal, APS-C sensor @ $800.

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