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Thread: Digital Nikon FM2

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Hmm yes - Monochrom with no LCD - that would certainly be 'pure photography'!
    No menus . . . . Definitely Different (but rather unlikely I'd say).

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am a bit confused. Is it clear that the DF would be monochrome?


    (shooting experience with the MM can not be easily challenged )
    Wishful thinking...and I doubt Nikon is up to it...corporate thinking...the HIVE and all.

    Do hope I am wrong...the F3HP was one of my all time favorite cameras...only because of the HP....

    Less than a week and we can all drown our collective disappointment!

    Lots of stuff to keep the ever changing ever evolving photo enthusiasts
    checking their card limits....

    Bu the way...I am and have been in the midst of this for 4 decades....and I have a few decent prints to show...serendipity reigns supreme....

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by NotXorc View Post
    So, does anyone think it so pure that it will not have an LCD screen? Now that would out-Leica the MM! The look would be utterly retro, as well as the shooting experience, IMO.
    That would be perfect for me, but I don't expect that any manufacturer will ever do that. I would prefer exactly the same controls as on the FM3A plus WB, spot metering and AF switch. No jpeg. But that's only me probably
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    While I haven't used a high eyepoint viewfinder, I've heard that many DSLR viewfinders are not up to the task of revealing peak sharpness, being optimized for slow, AF consumer zoom lenses. Since the viewfinder's optical path is different from the lens, the calibration also has to be correct. As writer Mike Johnston pointed out a while ago, good viewfinders are, "e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e."

    Just today, Mike posted again on his desire to see an entry-level monochrome camera. Since the rumor sites offer no evidence to the contrary that the DF will be a color sensor camera, I'll go ahead and flag this ∂ as .
    Yes, that's my grumpy face you see. Hope I'm wrong in four days.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    The website editor that most "serious" photographers love to hate, KR, wrote about the FM3A: "The FM3a is designed for the knowledgeable photographer, who today is the only one buying it. The Nikon FM3a is a total winner." He has a point there.

    I have many cameras that do an admirable job capturing the technically perfect image. Now, I want a camera that challenges me, like my old OM-1 did, and again: optimized for manual photography. Hopefully, it will be an alternative to Leica for those of us who prefer an SLR and those of us who can't afford a 35mm digital Leica anyway. I'm in both of those groups.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I say Nikon could make a gem here. What they need to do is the manual controls of old but make the camera *super responsive* to any mechanical interface changes.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hmm yes - Monochrom with no LCD - that would certainly be 'pure photography'!
    No menus . . . . Definitely Different (but rather unlikely I'd say).
    No menus? You know, you may be onto something here! If all the settings were available outside and never really need to dive in... or at worse a simple one page menu.

    Wow that sounds exciting already.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Nikon Df Pure Photography video teaser #5 | Nikon Rumors

    Looks more and more like a digital F3, but with most of the functionality from cameras like D300/700 intact. That, unfortunately, seems to include the thickness of the body, which is one of my major gripes with digital SLRs. In a way, I get a feeling of a camera that is a kind of D700/F3 mix. That must be good, mustn't it? Those are after all two of the most loved Nikon bodies.

    The remaining questions are what the viewfinder is like, particularly for manual focusing, and which sensor. For me, the viewfinder is the most critical. All Nikon FX sensors are good
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    My inside bet is D800 sensor, at least that's what I've been told by people in the know. Not convinced there will be no video at this price point. There would have to be some pretty good reasons not to include it beyond "purists don't need it". The technology is already paid for!

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    So, no rewinder crank and the rear LCD is there Is it color or monochrome?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    So, no rewinder crank and the rear LCD is there Is it color or monochrome?
    pish
    my flickr
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    A rewinder crank to rewind what??

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    The shutter. (Not a rewind crank for rewinding the film)

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    So, no rewinder crank and the rear LCD is there Is it color or monochrome?
    Sure it'll be colour - mind you, if it were me I'd make a colour one and a monochrome one (to keep everyone happy).

    I'm sure it'll have Auto Focus too.

    Looks like a retro body wrapped around a modern camera to me (a la OMD).

    Oh Well.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I like everything I've seen so far. Since going back to Nikon last spring (D800), I was looking for second body. D600 was a no, D4 was a no (after huge 1Ds, never again "pro size" body in my bag), so this one was a "god sent"... My only hope is that it is a "few megapixels more" then 16... Just around 24 (as I found that resolution ideal from using 5D MKII for years and M240 now). Love the retro!

    Popcorn anybody?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I just came across this on DPReview forums - which speculate that it may have OVF/EVF - hence the term hybrid:

    Nikon's hybrid OVF/EVF design: Nikon FX SLR (D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    The idea of having interchangeable VF's would be nice as well.

    I really like the F3 look.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    new video posted...stills here...

    Nikon Df Pure Photography video teaser #5 | Nikon Rumors

    IMHO, too many buttons for "pure", but still tasty. Also, it's gotten a bit thick for my tastes.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Thick and looks like plastic as well ( third pic ). Whatya think those markings are in front of the shutter dial?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    It looks depressingly like a standard dslr with a squarer retro looking prism to me, I hope there's more to it than that. The shutter speed dial looks nice but surely there's more!
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I really don't care how ugly it looks like (or even the sensor) or the number of buttons it has. All I want is the monochrome bit. If it does not offer that, I have no interest at all.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    Thick and looks like plastic as well ( third pic ). Whatya think those markings are in front of the shutter dial?
    Speculation is an ISO dial.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I really don't care how ugly it looks like (or even the sensor) or the number of buttons it has. All I want is the monochrome bit. If it does not offer that, I have no interest at all.
    I'm right there with you. But I shoot the D800e at a cheaper price so this would have to be very special at 3k. Monochrome would do it
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I'm really thinking this is a monochrome and if not . Nikons marketing research sucks.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm really thinking this is a monochrome and if not . Nikons marketing research sucks.
    LOL

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm really thinking this is a monochrome and if not . Nikons marketing research sucks.
    No no, they are geniuses. Think about it, a worst case scenario where this is just the 5 year old D700 in a slightly more compact and re-designed packaging and with a new sensor. Still, tens of thousands of photographers are waiting in anticipation. Compare that to the reactions around a certain "Moon Camera" a year or so ago. Photographers are indeed an interesting bunch

    I do think Nikon will present a more interesting concept though, and my guess is that there's a hybrid viewfinder. Full OVF and EVF functionality would tick a lot of boxes with this photographer. In that case, there's probably video as well. Which wouldn't totally rule out monochrome of course. B&W movie anybody? But that would be too good to be true, wouldn't it?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    It be nice but as someone PM'd me it maybe just to small a niche market for Nikon to do a monochrome. They are probably right too. Nikon swims in a bigger ocean than leica.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Still in anticipation... Don't ruin my party, please.

    No need for Monochrome here, I just want a second Nikon full frame that is not D800, D610 or monstrous D4...

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    It be nice but as someone PM'd me it maybe just to small a niche market for Nikon to do a monochrome. They are probably right too. Nikon swims in a bigger ocean than leica.
    I agree too, and the logical solution would obviously be to launch two models, the DF and the DFm. The question is: Do Nikon agree too, and do they agree enough to spend money on a monochrome sensor?

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    "If you donít cannibalize yourself, somebody else will."


    I

    Either Nikon can take the 16 Mp sensor from their high-end FX model (D4) and strip down the DF camera's features, like:
    - only 39 AF points in the center, and few of them being crosshair type
    - max shutter speed of 1/4000 instead of 1/8000 sec
    - the smallish EN-EL14 battery from D3200 and D5300, instead of EN-EL15 from D800 (and even from the tiny V1 for that matter).
    - etc. etc.
    I would regard such a camera as a deliberately crippled camera just to avoid cannibalizing the ultimate high-end FX model.
    That may very well make e.g. D800 look like a far better deal.


    II

    Or Nikon can take the 24 Mp sensor from their low-end FX model (D610) and enhance the rest of the low-end camera's features, like:
    - 51 AF points spread out as widely as possible, and many of them being crosshair type
    - max shutter speed raised to 1/8000 sec
    - the powerful EN-EL15 battery from D800 (and even from V1).
    - etc. etc.
    I would regard such a camera as a determinedly enhanced camera in order to justify a higher price point than the ultimate entry-level FX model (D610).


    - - - - -


    I would so much prefer that Nikon chose model II: the "enhanced camera" approach.
    But according to the rumors it looks like they went with model I: the "crippled camera" approach.

    Deliberately crippling a camera just to avoid cannibalizing another one of their own models is a loser strategy, in my opinion.
    Instead they should be entirely focused on the competition with their real competitors: the other companies in the camera industry, and simply try to make the best bang for the buck camera.

    "If you donít cannibalize yourself, somebody else will."

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Speculation is an ISO dial.
    To me they almost look like the symbols for self timer, mirror up, live view etc. But we shall find out soon

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I'd like to see a monochrome camera like others have mentioned, but this probably won't happen. A camera body with AF is okay as long as it is possible to shoot completely manual. But frankly 16 mp ain't gonna cut it. Yeah, I had a D700 for several years and it was terrific. The files up-rezzed great and the color was good and bw conversions were fine, also. But since Nikon is doing this retro bit I want at least as many mp as some of the less expensive bodies have now, ie 24. I'm like many of you and waiting for the announcement. I'm sure whatever Nikon introduces will generate considerable discussion. For me Nikon is going to have to have something special the other bodies don't have for me to give it the proper consideration. And it's going to have to be something which makes me want to leave the Leica's at home.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    There is a huge diffrence between a 16 mp monochrome and a higher mp Bayer output. I will even take a 12mp monochrome over 24 mp Bayer.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
    Thick and looks like plastic as well ( third pic ). Whatya think those markings are in front of the shutter dial?
    Guess: mode switch, similar to this on the Contax ST

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    The tragedy is that anticipation always leads to anti-climax, and anyway, reading this thread shows how different people's wants are.

    Hey Ho - I'm betting it's a modern digital camera dressed up in a nice old-fashioned box, with a shutter speed dial on the top.

    . . . . and we'll all buy one!

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    But frankly 16 mp ain't gonna cut it. Yeah, I had a D700 for several years and it was terrific. The files up-rezzed great and the color was good and bw conversions were fine, also.
    Why isn't 16MP going to cut it? The difference between 16 and 24MP is 22% linear size. It means being able to print 85 x 61 cm instead of 70 x 50 at the same resolution. Add to that the fact that the D4 sensor is considerably better than the D600 sensor at high ISO, even if the latter is downsized to 16MP. An improved 16MP sensor would probably fare even better, at least if the D4 sensor is used as basis, and enable larger prints from high ISO files than the D600 sensor. With the D800 sensor, this looks different.

    Yes, the 24MP sensor will enable you to print slightly larger at low ISO, but if the 16MP sensor is much better at high ISO, I know which one I would choose.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 1st November 2013 at 19:59.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . . and we'll all buy one!
    I know I'm planning to.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hey Ho - I'm betting it's a modern digital camera dressed up in a nice old-fashioned box, with a shutter speed dial on the top.
    I think you may be right about this Jono.

    . . . . and we'll all buy one!
    If you are right about the above....I for one, won't buy one.

    Gary
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    PC outlet on the side?

    That would fall out in about 3 seconds. Oh it comes with a roll of gaffers tape.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    If Nikon DID make a monochrome camera (retro or not)....I would buy one in a heart beat.

    Unfortunately, I don't expect they will do it.

    I think it's a niche product, which only a company like Leica and Phase One can produce.

    I hope I am wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

    Gary

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Some folks over at Nikonrumors (with far too much time on their hands) have managed to eke out the following info based on the videos:





    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    My wild *** guess:

    This has to be a Bayerless (CFA) monochrome camera, otherwise it just doesn't make sense!

    - 16MP would be equivalent to about 22-24MP (so can still run with the big boys)
    - The whole retro theme is good, but not sure it would be enough for yet another body
    - Build may be great, but size/weight still about the same, so no real compelling reason
    - While the monochrome market maybe niche, it is still big enough
    - Unlike Sony, but not quite like Leica, Nikon still has a loyal cult of following, and this would appeal to them.
    - 3K would easily be justified!
    - The whole "pure" whatever would make much more sense.

    It just does not add up for me, unless something super compelling like this being a CFA less body.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I tend to agree. I am confused at this point how a camera with this many buttons gives you the "pure" thing. If you ignore styling, what they seem to have done is added a shutter speed dial and perhaps and exposure comp dial to the top of a current Nikon DSLR.

    This is a far cry from a "digital F3" that was rumored. I wish they had dropped the following features and controls:
    AF
    Drive modes
    bracketing
    program modes
    exposure comp
    joystick control on back
    AE-L
    AF-L
    multiple metering modes

    I would still like this to be a color camera but monochrome would be great too - perhaps offer two cameras?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    It is kind of pointless in dropping features (and dropping an LDC is probably the most pointless ideas for a digital camera). It seems like Nikon went retro with the prism cover design and gave it a big shutter speed dial. It is not like they are going to start putting aperture rings on their lenses.

    The "pure" is of course pure advertising. The B&W sensor make no sense. It was not like I couldn't put color slide or color negative film in my FM. It is not like B&W is anymore "pure" than color, just like film is no more pure than digital. Besides, the Japanese market is too important to these manufactures and the Japanese do not get the B&W fixation. It will be a color camera, perhaps with a nice sepia mode (for purity).

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    If Nikon DID make a monochrome camera (retro or not)....I would buy one in a heart beat.

    Unfortunately, I don't expect they will do it.

    I think it's a niche product, which only a company like Leica and Phase One can produce.

    I hope I am wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

    Gary
    Gary, and what are you going to do with your 645D? (You need to join the fun with MF thread.)

  45. #195
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    It is kind of pointless in dropping features (and dropping an LDC is probably the most pointless ideas for a digital camera). It seems like Nikon went retro with the prism cover design and gave it a big shutter speed dial. It is not like they are going to start putting aperture rings on their lenses.

    The "pure" is of course pure advertising. The B&W sensor make no sense. It was not like I couldn't put color slide or color negative film in my FM. It is not like B&W is anymore "pure" than color, just like film is no more pure than digital. Besides, the Japanese market is too important to these manufactures and the Japanese do not get the B&W fixation. It will be a color camera, perhaps with a nice sepia mode (for purity).
    I don't get what is so bad about that retro and pure stuff. I like the shutter speed dial and I like some of the old Nikkors with aperture ring. Also like the new shape of the camera, at least a good starting point towards smaller DSLRs - and Oly and Sony are very successful in this area. But who knows, maybe they will even come with retro Nikkors, which will have an aperture ring again - I would be very happy about that.

    B&W also makes no sense for me (too small market). Hopefully they will show a simplified menu structure on this camera as well!

  46. #196
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    There is nothing wrong with "retro." (I did not say there was.) It is simply design that is based on nostalgia. Nothing wrong with shutter speed dials. There are lots of camera with shutter speed dials--some made with the shutter speeds, like the old FM and Leica M, and some not, like the RX-1, EP-1, and 645D. I am not sure why anyone would think this camera is or would be something else than a modern DSLR. The prism design and a shutter speed dial will not change that.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    There is nothing wrong with "retro." (I did not say there was.) It is simply design that is based on nostalgia. Nothing wrong with shutter speed dials. There are lots of camera with shutter speed dials--some made with the shutter speeds, like the old FM and Leica M, and some not, like the RX-1, EP-1, and 645D. I am not sure why anyone would think this camera is or would be something else than a modern DSLR. The prism design and a shutter speed dial will not change that.
    Actually I do hope that this camera is the most modern DSLR incarnation WRT electronics, processor and sensor Nikon has today - just in a small retro style package.

  48. #198
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Some folks over at Nikonrumors (with far too much time on their hands) have managed to eke out the following info based on the videos:





    Well, I would buy that camera, and then I'd have the digital equivalent of my 80's rig:


    Nikon F3 And Leica M4-P, May, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
    My Blog | Music | flickr
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Well, I would buy that camera, and then I'd have the digital equivalent of my 80's rig:
    That is the perfect rig in my eyes.

  50. #200
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by white.elephant View Post
    That is the perfect rig in my eyes.
    Same here!

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