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Thread: Digital Nikon FM2

  1. #301
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    This comes close to the good looks of my favourite SLR, the FM3A (which I still own). It's a shame that it's so overweight, oversized and overpriced.
    Ummm, the FM3A is 142.5 × 90 × 58 mm and 570g. The Df is 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm and 765g. Not that oversized and overweight, particularly not if you add a few rolls of film to the FM3A. The $2,000 price difference will buy you 200 rolls of film and developing at best. I use film and enjoy it, but cheap, it isn't

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    But for those who don't want to shell out nearly $3,000 for a kitsch, retro styled Nikon, there's always this Stellar value, Limited Edition Hasselblad for just a fraction more at $3,175, zoom lens included!


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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I like the dedicated iso dial. Other than that it reminds me of an overdone Disney Eiffel Tower or Vegas Roman Colosseum. Too hard a try on retro and never a match for the real thing.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Never used an FM3 or an F3. Started out with an F and then an F2A. Loved the FM2.

    Dunno, this look like a kludge to me. I guess I will have to try it out in a store at some point to see how it behaves. It certainly isn't screaming drop $3000 to me (which is probably a good thing).

    Doug

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    The focusing screen is fixed according to dpr. That's a bummer
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Yes, the focusing screen is a big disappointment for manual focus with legacy glass. Bad Nikon!

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    On the off chance that $2750 seems a bit pricey just to get that flippable coupling lever, this seems an opportune time to remind people that John White still does AI conversions at $35 a crack, so you can use those oh-so-precious pre-AI lenses on any Nikon DSLR. Better yet, the low-end Nikons without screw-drive AF will accept them even without AI conversion, though with those cameras you're on your own for metering and are stuck with the APS-C crop.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    fixed screen? oh well, I don't care, i never figured out how to change it anyway. the camera looks too cool to pass up. think of all the people who will come up and ask where do you get film developed? i want a black one.
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Nikon isn't Leica so it makes more sense to design a camera that looks like a retro Nikon than like a new Leica.

    Now, Nikon probably isn't that interested in selling old AIS lenses - they are mostly an embarrassment compared to current lenses (with a few exceptions of course).
    I wasn't suggesting they make a retro Nikon that looks like a new Leica, but that they make a Nikon with the clean design of a Leica. A Nikon that is still a DSLR, which is of course, a market which Leica abandoned.

    Re selling old AIS lenses....why is it that Zeiss and Leica can produce and sell high quality manual focus lenses, but Nikon thinks it can't?

    I was hoping this new Nikon DSLR, devoted to "pure photography" and seemingly harking back to Nikon's roots (some might call it retro), would indeed be that camera...ie a camera without all the bells and whistles of every other Nikon DSLR (for those who want video, Nikon makes plenty of cameras to satisfy that need).

    This would be a Nikon that excels at the use of manual focus lenses (including the limited range of AIS lenses which Nikon still sells, plus the manual focus lenses offered by Zeiss). Maybe Nikon could even offer a few of their best new AF lenses, in a manual focus version.

    I'm sure there are a few others like me who would buy into it.

    Gary

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    ought to be priced according to specs


    The Nikon Df is basically a retro D610 with a D4 sensor at a D800 price

    Imagine a similar retro D610 with a D610 sensor at a D610 price
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Are there any technical reasons you can think of why Nikon couldn't have made a digital F3 with controls as simple and uncluttered as a Leica M9?

    Drop the video, put a great pentaprism on it and a decent screen for manual focusing. Keep it simple (or if they insist "pure"). They could have sold a lot of AIS Nikkors.

    This DF is just a big disappointment.....especially to those who still enjoy "pure photography".

    Gary
    Well my friend, with the M9 you have to access frequently used stuff via the side menus buttons and do it on the LCD screen ... so the camera is hardly a Leica M6 or MP film camera in simplicity of use.

    I kinda like all the controls as analog dials on this Df camera ... a bit much in silver, but it pulls together in black IMO.

    If I had Nikon stuff, this would be a contender. I even like 16 meg full frame for goofing around type of shooting ... big photo-sites do have their charms.

    - Marc
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I hope it sells well.

    As a guess, the senior citizens ( inc. me ) might want ( need ? ) one.

    The young huns..well, maybe to feel what it was like in grandpa's times.

    On a pension, a bit pricey for me; but then again I can survive on dates and camel's milk...

    Good luck Nikon.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: ought to be priced according to specs

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    The Nikon Df is basically a retro D610 with a D4 sensor at a D800 price

    Imagine a similar retro D610 with a D610 sensor at a D610 price
    Unfortunately, I think you are right about the basis for the Df being the D610. That probably also explains why it's not possible to change the focusing screen. Time to change to a Katzeye screen on my D700 maybe?

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    This camera is a sad compromise. It's a real shame Nikon didn't have the courage to do something unique.
    It's not simplistic, it's not truly retro, it's not beautiful, it's not groundbreaking, it's not smaller or sleeker than a normal DSLR…the only thing it really seems to be is expensive.

    No guts, no glory.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Well... this is just a toy, not a tool.

    Nikon gone hasselblad way lately. 3000 € !!!

    If ppl want "pure photography" experience in digital world better way to jump on a SIGMA DPmerril. The prices have been cut by $200 on all the line last week (maybe they will come with something new soon ).

    My D700 with his 12400 actuations stay in my eyes a far better tool than this bold DF marketing joke. He will stay my rugged companion until his mechanical death, with his killer AF module and good controls.

    Using a difficult manual lens on the D700, like the 50f1.2, is very easy even with conventional screen.

    Don't get me wrong, I love NIKON but I probably love what they were. The SONY A7 line look far more useful and fun to use.

    For me this is the milestone were SIGMA took a better reputation than a brand like NIKON. At least they don't betray themselves. SIGMA = true Bushido Spirit !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I love NIKON but I probably love what they were. The SONY A7 line look far more useful and fun to use.
    Hulyss,

    I fully agree with you. When a colleague yesterday sent me the link to the new Df, I wasn't that excited.

    Sure, it's nice, but where is the real innovation? The Fuji's did that three years ago, and I also fully agree with you that the A7 (esp. the A7R) ist definitely more appealling.

    The only company that still denies that there is a retro-trend is Canon
    And even funier, there are still people that think that Canon will deliver a 48 MPix-monster soon

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan ROX View Post
    And even funier, there are still people that think that Canon will deliver a 48 MPix-monster soon
    They will and so will Nikon. Next year it will all be 40-50MP FF cameras.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The focusing screen is fixed according to dpr. That's a bummer
    That is an inexplicable oversight on Nikon's part. The biggest appeal for this camera is for all manual use, and it's just not the same trying to manually focus AIS lenses without a split screen and microprism ring.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    They will and so will Nikon. Next year it will all be 40-50MP FF cameras.
    You won't see such a camera from Canon. I bet. They have serious sensor problems.

    Not that Nikon is all that error-free.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    A bet you will surely lose!

    Several years ago Canon demonstrated a 256 MP (something like that) FF body and they have also shown the highest sensitivity sensored camera. The tech capabilities are already there. The hiccup is in commercialization of those. They will overcome (they have to) the problems.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Maybe Nikon or someone could come out with an all mechanical "retro" camera that needs no batteries, has interchangeable focusing screens and some other means of capturing images besides these pesky noisy electronic sensors.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Just a question, I read a good hand full of the previews, and can't sort this out.

    I mount and AF-D lens, with an aperture ring, lock it to the highest FNumber, then change the aperture with a spinning knob that is mounted the wrong way round on the front of the camera??

    Can that possibly be right ...... PURE PHOTOGRAPHY still disables the aperture ring??

    Lets see, my Fuji X-Pro, change aperture on the lens, shutter speed/Comp on the body, and ISO in the quick menu .... to me a bit more pure.

    Dave

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by djonesii View Post
    Just a question, I read a good hand full of the previews, and can't sort this out.

    I mount and AF-D lens, with an aperture ring, lock it to the highest FNumber, then change the aperture with a spinning knob that is mounted the wrong way round on the front of the camera??

    Can that possibly be right ...... PURE PHOTOGRAPHY still disables the aperture ring??

    Lets see, my Fuji X-Pro, change aperture on the lens, shutter speed/Comp on the body, and ISO in the quick menu .... to me a bit more pure.

    Dave
    Don't know. The D700 and the F6 use the aperture ring, at least with AIS lenses, no problem.

    Actually, the Canon 6D is in many ways more suitable for what I would use the Df for, without the switches and dials obviously. Except for the larger grip, it's exactly the same size and weight, it has exchangeable focusing screens and can mount any Nikkor lens... and Zeiss CY, Olympus OM, Pentax K etc. lenses. It's $1,000 cheaper too. Not as cool looking of course, with it's "whale design" and I'm sure I prefer the Nikon sensor, but, but, but...

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by djonesii View Post
    Just a question, I read a good hand full of the previews, and can't sort this out.

    I mount and AF-D lens, with an aperture ring, lock it to the highest FNumber, then change the aperture with a spinning knob that is mounted the wrong way round on the front of the camera??

    Can that possibly be right ...... PURE PHOTOGRAPHY still disables the aperture ring??
    Yes, any CPU lens would operate that way.

    It's even more convoluted for older non-AI lenses…enter the lens in the system, meter using using the dial, then turn the aperture ring on the lens to match.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Actually, the Canon 6D is in many ways more suitable for what I would use the Df for, without the switches and dials obviously. Except for the larger grip, it's exactly the same size and weight, it has exchangeable focusing screens and can mount any Nikkor lens... and Zeiss CY, Olympus OM, Pentax K etc. lenses. It's $1,000 cheaper too.
    The 6D can do that, as long as one doesn't mind all the fiddling and tweaking required to get accurate focus.

    For adapting purposes, nothing can touch the A7, tho.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The 6D can do that, as long as one doesn't mind all the fiddling and tweaking required to get accurate focus.

    For adapting purposes, nothing can touch the A7, tho.
    That is correct. I used the 6D example because that too is an SLR. Some of us prefer that sometimes.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Indeed. Sometimes nothing but a DSLR will do!

    But never again will I try adapting lenses to one…it's native or nothing!
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Now, this is sexy:

    Sorry, looks more like a hooker than sexy. What were they thinking? I think Nikon missed the mark on a good idea of making a simple and small retro DSLR. Olympus and Leica keep getting it right...

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    I am quite thankful for the DF- for saving my cash!
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am quite thankful for the DF- for saving my cash!
    Hm, the more I think about it the more I feel the same ....

    Shooting a D800e for purpose with some selected glass and soon the EM1 with nice m43 lens collection for flexibility and small weight/size I do not really see where I should fit the Df in for me.

    If I really like retro, then I should go for the M240 and finally start using my M glass. Adding a Df with some of the better Nikkors would be the same price as the M240 - but never be a Leica in the end.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    So as I understand it, the DF is a video-less 16mp camera that uses the same sensor as the D4 so it has nearly identical imaging capabilities (which isn't bad by the way...just slightly $2000 less in overall system adaptability) in a magnesium clad, weather-sealed body that's roughly the same size as a Canon 6D and weighing a scoshe less than a D7100.

    While the imaging is certainly going to be impressive, the DF is not exactly what I'd call svelte for 'purer' for photography as Nikon's teases were alluding--which is always a danger when you do advertising like that. When Nissan's Infinity was first introduced years ago the mysterious teaser ads they used made one wonder whether the thing even had wheels.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

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    back to pure nonsense


    Yes, advertising is usually pure nonsense

    Anyway, I like this retro D610 camera with all its mechanical dials, only not at the D800 price.

    Here's to hope for a competitively priced Df2 within the next couple of years.

    .
    Last edited by Steen; 5th November 2013 at 09:19.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    The 6D can do that, as long as one doesn't mind all the fiddling and tweaking required to get accurate focus.

    For adapting purposes, nothing can touch the A7, tho.
    Which is considerably cheaper than the DF.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Yes, the focusing screen is a big disappointment for manual focus with legacy glass. Bad Nikon!
    Well, I'm not going to judge the good or bad (I would have preferred a split-prism, but oh well). My question is this: what changed in the way they handled their internal focussing screens between the D700 (where you CAN get a Katzeye) and now (when you can't)?

    I just would like to understand the differences.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Hmm, Well, I wasn't really up for one anyway, but the fact that they're $2750 dollars in the states and £2749 in the UK would be quite enough to irritate me into not buying one.

    Still, like most of these things, if you were a D700 lover, then this will seem like a nice incremental upgrade I'd say.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Let's talk price..rather than hookers ( ) that are not sexy ( )

    For many belonging to this forum, price is relative..US$ 10,000.00 for a lens; US$ 8,000.00 for a camera and so on.

    If the Df price is the bother, then either the cam is not for you or wait till the price falls within your range.

    The D4 with the same sensor costs..how much? Granted one gets other things with it, but the sensor, I am told by professional users here is second to none.

    So the Df has the same sensor...' shines ' in low light, high iso.

    Besides the Leica Ms and the Sony A7/R, the Df is the lightest FF 35mm cam. In fact, I think it is the lightest 35mm FF DSLR.

    I am liking the dials..iso, aperture, speed..all set with dials. It is, imo, more of a street, portrait, wedding shooters cam more than for wildlife or sports.

    For me, I shall wait for some judicious reviews. And why not..you only live once.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    It is just like my old Nikon FM. The FM had exactly one dial, the shutter speed (the ISO was built into that). The FM did have an advance lever, a shutter release button, a lens release button, DOF preview button, a self timer, a multiple exposure button, and a rewind button, so in a sense it is just like the DF, except the DF does not have a rewind button. But it did have the little lens thingy you could get out of the way for non-AI lenses, just like the DF. But at least the faux leather on the prism housing is the same.

    So the DF is exactly like the old film cameras had they built film cameras like that.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    If the Df price is the bother, then either the cam is not for you or wait till the price falls within your range.
    Hi Ray
    It bothers me that it's 60% more expensive in the UK than it is in the US - that's a lot extra!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ray
    It bothers me that it's 60% more expensive in the UK than it is in the US - that's a lot extra!
    Jono, maybe you folks make 60% more in the Uk than my friends in the US.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Now, this is sexy:

    Not to my eyes......but this one certainly fits the bill.



    Photo courtesy of Fotografz several years ago.

    Gary

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    Digital Nikon FM2


    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Hi Ray
    It bothers me that it's 60% more expensive in the UK than it is in the US - that's a lot extra!

    + 1


    And quoting Thom Hogan on FF sensor prices, from the sixth paragraph in this article:

    "As a reminder, the most expensive part in a DSLR is the sensor.
    While full frame sensors have come down in price, every time they do, a crop sensor should come down in price by as much as a factor of eight.
    I've written before about sensor costs.
    Back at the start of full frame, it was pretty clear that a 36x24mm sensor was topping US$500.
    Last time I looked (around the time of the D600 intro), the best guess I could get out of my semiconductor friends was US$350.
    Today, I think the number may have stretched down to US$300.
    So large sensor prices have been coming down."


    You can read the full article here: The Full Frame Debate | byThom | Thom Hogan

    I honestly doubt the price differences between the D610 / D800 / D4 sensors are all that big since these sensors are the same area (24 x 36mm) and more or less the same generation.
    Anyway, I imagine we would also all have been fine with the excellent D610 sensor used in the Df camera for that matter, and basically the Df is a retro D610 camera with entry level FF specs.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Hmmm, where was that FM3a I saw FS

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    If they come out with an interchangeable lens full frame Foveon I'll be in heaven
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Well... this is just a toy, not a tool.

    Nikon gone hasselblad way lately. 3000 € !!!

    If ppl want "pure photography" experience in digital world better way to jump on a SIGMA DPmerril. The prices have been cut by $200 on all the line last week (maybe they will come with something new soon ).

    My D700 with his 12400 actuations stay in my eyes a far better tool than this bold DF marketing joke. He will stay my rugged companion until his mechanical death, with his killer AF module and good controls.

    Using a difficult manual lens on the D700, like the 50f1.2, is very easy even with conventional screen.

    Don't get me wrong, I love NIKON but I probably love what they were. The SONY A7 line look far more useful and fun to use.

    For me this is the milestone were SIGMA took a better reputation than a brand like NIKON. At least they don't betray themselves. SIGMA = true Bushido Spirit !

  44. #344
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ray
    It bothers me that it's 60% more expensive in the UK than it is in the US - that's a lot extra!
    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Jono, maybe you folks make 60% more in the Uk than my friends in the US.
    What a priceless remark Ray - presumably they will also be selling them for a tiny fraction of the US price in countries less well off?

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan ROX View Post
    Hulyss,

    I fully agree with you. When a colleague yesterday sent me the link to the new Df, I wasn't that excited.

    Sure, it's nice, but where is the real innovation? The Fuji's did that three years ago, and I also fully agree with you that the A7 (esp. the A7R) ist definitely more appealling.

    The only company that still denies that there is a retro-trend is Canon
    And even funier, there are still people that think that Canon will deliver a 48 MPix-monster soon
    There are even still people who believe the latest and greatest specs are more important than a good user interface, complete system and some guys even believe pure resolution and DR are the only and main factors for good IQ.
    Some even think any camera older than 2 years is so called "aged technology".
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    some guys even believe pure resolution and DR are the only and main factors for good IQ.
    Why would anyone think that!

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    What a priceless remark Ray - presumably they will also be selling them for a tiny fraction of the US price in countries less well off?
    You know they successfully launched a probe to Mars.
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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterSteve View Post
    Sorry, looks more like a hooker than sexy. What were they thinking? I think Nikon missed the mark on a good idea of making a simple and small retro DSLR. Olympus and Leica keep getting it right...
    Disagree I believe is beautiful. The only issue I have is that they did not optimized for manual focus, as I say before, to link it with the new Optus lenses. Now it will make more sense if they have used a 24Mpixels sensor (for high resolution lenses).

    The 16 will be better for street, but most of the film people never shoot about iso 1600.

    So there is the controversy about the sensor, people will be divided about that, but I really believe that the error was the manual focus issue.

    I just saw an opinion that match mine on this sense (manual focus ):

    Nikon Df - Digital Fusion - PREVIEW - YouTube

    It could have been a great opportunity.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    What a priceless remark Ray - presumably they will also be selling them for a tiny fraction of the US price in countries less well off?
    unfortunately, not the case in most cases Jono.

    The exceptions where your contention holds is limited to very few and very specific items..life saving medication and life sustaining food. And that too limited in time and to specific countries.

    A Nikon Df would be considered a ' luxury ' item in places that require special pricing for medication and nutrition.

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    Re: Digital Nikon FM2

    Disappointed to say the least.

    The lack of a katz eye or split prism focus option ends the discussion for
    me. I like the draw of zeiss and leica lenses, and was looking forward to
    using the optus or other such lenses. But, unfortunately, the Df does not
    make it any easier to use these than my D800E.

    Then there is the 16 MP. I typically print 20x30 and often 40x60 which
    of course is why I have a D800E. BUT, like many, a smaller, lighter
    alternative WITH A BETTER VIEWFINDER OPTIMIZED FOR MANUAL FOCUS
    would have been great. I would have compromised on 24 MP, but 16 is
    just too small.

    I like the idea of dedicated controls, although Thom Hogan does point
    out that this design may have an issue in dim light or at night.

    Finally, the price seems arrogant to me. Nikon is charging far too much
    for the "retro" look and not giving sufficient capabilities. Reminds me
    of Leica's "special editions" or the Hassleblad ones recently released.
    Only, Nikon does not have Leica lenses or "cache."

    And the "special edition" 50 mm being combined doesn't even equal
    the standards of Nikon's newest 50ish lens. Might be "adequate" for
    16 MP, but still a disappointment.

    This release makes the Sony A7r more interesting, but also perhaps
    having the patience to wait for a used M240 (and learning how to use
    a rangefinder or not if you use live view or EVF).

    Nikon has missed a tremendous opportunity. I had my VISA card out
    and finger poised over the buy button until I saw the details. Now,
    I will look elsewhere for a smaller companion to the D800E.
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