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Thread: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Nikon Rumors reported that Nikon Japan has temporarily suspended production of the new Df to build inventory on a new Pro body (D4 Variation ) . The speculation is that it will launch before the Olympics on Feb6 . Makes sense and is consistent with past history ….my guess its a D4S and not the D4X .

    Makes me wonder if the Df doesn t have a variation of the original D4 sensor ..it seems to have better color …but who knows ..the new baby is always pretty.
    Roger Dunham
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Or maybe the reason why the Df got the D4 sensor is that the new camera has a completely new sensor?
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Hi Roger
    From what I've seen of the Df colour it's back to the bad old days of acid yellow.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Roger
    From what I've seen of the Df colour it's back to the bad old days of acid yellow.
    Jono, there is one Nikon, and one Nikon only. It's called D2Xs and it makes photographs with beautiful, cool colours. I will take photos with mine all weekend and I seriously consider buying one more, getting rid of the "acid" D300.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Any information (speculation) on the number of megapixels?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerett View Post
    Any information (speculation) on the number of megapixels?
    I am just reacting to the Nikon Rumors blog post . They have no detailed information beyond the obvious change in production at Nikon s main plant in Japan . Thom Hogan also reports that Nikon follows a pattern of introduction around the Olympics for their PRO bodies .

    It seems likely that they will either slightly improve the D4 with an D4S model or release a D4X with higher MP s . Maybe the D800E sensor in a Pro body . We hope for a break thru new 50+ MP sensor but I am getting used to a slower evolution of the sensor technologies .

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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Roger
    From what I've seen of the Df colour it's back to the bad old days of acid yellow.
    damn anyone ever notice how jono resembles Roman Opalka?
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Roger
    From what I've seen of the Df colour it's back to the bad old days of acid yellow.
    Cannot agree more!

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    I am just reacting to the Nikon Rumors blog post . They have no detailed information beyond the obvious change in production at Nikon s main plant in Japan . Thom Hogan also reports that Nikon follows a pattern of introduction around the Olympics for their PRO bodies .

    It seems likely that they will either slightly improve the D4 with an D4S model or release a D4X with higher MP s . Maybe the D800E sensor in a Pro body . We hope for a break thru new 50+ MP sensor but I am getting used to a slower evolution of the sensor technologies .
    Actually all the big boys are expected to release their new high end pro models before Olympics 2014 ....

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Cannot agree more!
    This is heavily dependent on the lenses used ,your approach to WB ,the raw conversion software and your efforts to profile your camera . Thats just to get a converted file ..then you factor in any presets used to establish your personal aesthetic .

    Prior to the newer G Nano coated lenses ..most Nikkors produce a warm (yellowish bias from the coating ) . I have had a devil of a time getting the yellow out with the 135DC for example . The G Nano coated lenses render neutral .

    My approach to WB (when I am being careful ) is to use an Expo Disc …this typically results in a cooler WB than Nikons AWB . This is a matter of taste as many Pro s used a fixed Cloudy WB (6500) .

    The conversion software makes a big difference in “straight out of the camera “ color with the D4 sensor . Capture NX2 ( not a user friendly software ) produces very nice neutral color …..LR5 ….can produce the “acid” Jono speaks too unless you tune it out . Look forward to hearing from the Capture One users as they take up the new Df .

    Finally the Camera calibration using a Passport Color Checker works well to further standardize and neutral set color in LR .

    Carry this further and use a Film Emulation preset and I think you can obtain an aesthetic free of any bias (other than what you intend ).

    Having used essentially all of the Nikon sensors over the past 3-4 years …I totally agree that they have a yellow -green bias . I shoot baseball,polo and surfing in the winter and grass can be difficult as well as keeping the water blue enough . Last year I calibrated my D800E bodies and cleaned up my workflow …was pretty happy with the color . We will see with the Df ?

    The D600 (with the Sony 24MP sensor ) is pretty great right out of the box in Aperture (which my wife uses) . I ve been surprised at the lack of take up in the D600/D610 as the prices have fallen to just above $1500 .
    Roger Dunham
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post

    The conversion software makes a big difference in “straight out of the camera “ color
    +1 -- and with EVERY camera IME.

    LR is most notably bad (IMHO) as re out of cam color and generally needs a Passport tweak if you're particular.

    C1 is exponentially better on out of box color than LR (again IMHO). But still, I generally use a preferred preset WB on import to get the overall balance I want. With C1 I can further tweak this by making a custom camera profile; this is a real icc profile made for C1 via the advanced color tool.

    So far, I have not seen "acid yellow" but admittedly have only worked a few hundred Df files so far, so will reserve further comment until I have personally experienced issues. Or not.

    As re lenses. I have heard the 135DC is overly yellow from several shooters. I have the 105DC and it is slightly more yellow than my G lenses, but nothing that bothers in me; and in fact I feel it gives the lens part of it's "older rendering" character. That said, it is my most yellow rendering lens out of all my non-G glass, including the 28/1.4 and 50/1.2.
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    My 200/4 Micro tends towards yellow as well. Kinda reminiscent of Kodak film actually.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    As expressed by Roger Jack and others, the older non G lens Nikons, both Af and MF, generally produce a warm somewhat yellowish image that biases the reproduction of greens and blues, not to mention skin tones. The 135mm f2 DC lens is notorious for this as well as the 105DC to a lesser extent. The 200 f4 micro as Jan pointed out as well a large # of manual focus Nikkors are prime candidates. A good many older Sigma lenses (especially some of their older wide angle zooms) were big offenders.

    Although some Nikon DSLR's can be implicated (since use of some neutral non Nikkor lenses produced warm images with certain Nikon bodies but not when mounted on Canon's, some of the non G lenses were often the greater offending candidate as compared to use of certain Nikon DSLR models.

    Interestingly as Roger noted, out of camera D600 files are particulary more neutral that a great many other recent and past Nikon DSLR's (most of which I've used fairly extensively). Again as pointed out, conversion software, camera calibration and particularly use of the original Expo Disk can easily tame this bias towards warmth. Use of the Expo disk in WB I've found balances out exceptionally well, the bias towards yellow when used with offending optics since use of the original Expo disk (as opposed to their portrait model), renders an exceptionally cool temp. file when used with neutral lenses such as the G lenses.

    With that said, I often like the end of day light rendition of outdoor portraits taken with the 105 and 135 DC lenses on their own, especially in what is obviously cool rendering winter scenes.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 22nd December 2013 at 08:27.
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    The bias toward yellow and green is most problematic in anything that has large areas of green grass. A baseball field for example will almost “glow” from yellow luminosity …so its more than WB. This unfortunately requires a good camera profile to obtain a decent starting point in LR . If you use NX2 you can avoid this almost entirely .

    But for most everything else I have not been bothered much by the sensor bias.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    I find the colour pretty decent on the D800E, though I use Capture One rather than Lightroom for the conversions. I haven't tuned the colour in Lightroom, but the stock Lightroom conversions are a bit garish.

    Speaking of new pro level cameras, I have found the file sizes of the D800E are killing my work flow when shooting sports. I spend hours editing because the previews take to long in order to check focus. Setting the D800E to 1.2x crop helps with the file sizes but you loose a bit on the wide end.

    I was starting to think one of the Pro Nikons with a lower file size might suit me better for sports. If a new D4 equivalent comes out, it might make the older D4 a bit more affordable.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    When I shoot my D4 for pro sports when the photos are for online use only, I dial it down to 8 megapixel JPEGs. I shoot about 1000 frames per game, so this makes a big difference in processing time. I do love the D4 - it must have artificial intelligence in the focusing system. I have never used a camera that is better at AF than this.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    When I shoot my D4 for pro sports when the photos are for online use only, I dial it down to 8 megapixel JPEGs. I shoot about 1000 frames per game, so this makes a big difference in processing time. I do love the D4 - it must have artificial intelligence in the focusing system. I have never used a camera that is better at AF than this.
    I am not familiar with the D4. Can you dial down the to 8 mega pixels and still shoot NEF? I am shooting my kids, so I shoot raw so I have more room for exposure and colour balance error if I happen to get the perfect shot.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Nope, RAW is RAW. JPEG lets you dial down.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Nope, RAW is RAW. JPEG lets you dial down.
    No RAW crop mode on the D4?

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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Nikon D4 is no longer listed for sale at NPS Japan…… according to NR.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Nope, RAW is RAW. JPEG lets you dial down.
    I don't know much about Canon DSLR's so please correct me if I'm wrong...but I thought some Canon models let you set "in camera" smaller sized Raw files, reduced from it's native resolution capture.

    What I don't understand is why Nikon doesn't implement the same thing. The D800 would greatly benefit being able to shoot 24 or 16MP or smaller Raw files "in camera" without the need to import 36MP files to one's computer and then set a PS action to reduce them.

    This would save at the very least having to import 500-100 RAW full sized files from a given shoot if that size file is not needed...especially if one is on the road with a small laptop. Except for possibly the need for a larger/faster in-camera processor, I can't see why its not done or offered as an in-camera option.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    Nikon D4 is no longer listed for sale at NPS Japan…… according to NR.

    If this is indeed the case, the new Pro Body most likely will be a D4s and not a D4x - The latter is what I am hoping for !

    Lets see !


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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    The JPEG output of the D4 is so good that the reduced size images are really useful for online sports photos. I have never "needed" a RAW version of an image for this purpose after doing a game.

    Looking forward to seeing whatever comes out.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    The JPEG output of the D4 is so good that the reduced size images are really useful for online sports photos. I have never "needed" a RAW version of an image for this purpose after doing a game.

    Looking forward to seeing whatever comes out.
    Brad...In many of the indoor venues I shoot in, nor only is the color temp of the stage lighting changing moment to moment, but exposure values can swing to either side by up to 3 or more f stops every few seconds. Shooting Raw is mandatory to save the integrity of the files but often with the number of files shot, something much smaller that a full 36 mp is both needed and desirable. These are some of the reasons a reduced sized raw file is highly desirable. Many others have also requested this ability from the D800. If Canon could do it, I don't see why Nikon can't.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 26th December 2013 at 19:03.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Brad...In many of the indoor venues I shoot in, nor only is the color temp of the stage lighting changing moment to moment, but exposure values can swing to either side by up to 3 or more f stops every few seconds. Shooting Raw is mandatory to save the integrity of the files but often with the number of files shot, something much smaller that a full 30pm is both needed and desirable. The a e are the reasons amount some others that a reduced sized raw file is highly desirable. Many others have also requested this ability from the D800 if Canon could do it, I don't see why Nikon can't.

    Dave (D&A)
    +1 to all of this

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Wow, sorry for all the grammatical mistakes in my posting above. I've now corrected it so that it makes more sense.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    sounds like a good feature, why not.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    sounds like a good feature, why not.
    Agree Brad and yet at the same time when full rez 36 mp files are needed, the same camera can be used. All that's being asked is for a reduced raw file size option when it's advantageous to have somewhat smaller raw files when shooting 500 of more files during a shoot and the full rez files aren't needed.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 26th December 2013 at 19:28.

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Morning

    Isn't that what the D4 is for? Smaller RAW, faster shutter rate, it's the camera for sports I would have thought. As Nikon is a business that needs to make money in order to keep going, they are providing people what they are asking for, our part of the deal is to buy the cameras!

    Mat

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    These are some of the reasons a reduced sized raw file is highly desirable. Many others have also requested this ability from the D800. If Canon could do it, I don't see why Nikon can't.

    Dave (D&A)
    wait, wait, I thought you could use the d800 at 24mp raw and smaller if desired...is that not true?...

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    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by momo View Post
    wait, wait, I thought you could use the d800 at 24mp raw and smaller if desired...is that not true?...
    It's a crop as opposed to Canon's sRaw format which would remain full frame..

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Morning

    Isn't that what the D4 is for? Smaller RAW, faster shutter rate, it's the camera for sports I would have thought. As Nikon is a business that needs to make money in order to keep going, they are providing people what they are asking for, our part of the deal is to buy the cameras!

    Mat
    Matt, completely agree that's what the D4 is for....but I think it's a bit unusual for a company to think or say to a D800 user, if you want a smaller full sized Raw file out of your D800, simply go out and spent $6,000 . I do though get the point you were trying to say.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: New Nikon Pro Body Coming Soon ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerett View Post
    Any information (speculation) on the number of megapixels?
    .

    I believe, that more Nikon have 3 main issues to address :

    1. Old generation autofocusing system compared to Canon.

    2. Abysmal quality control with bad handling (3 killer products {D600 spots, D800 lateral autofocus, D4 autofocus and green cast} compromised by issues that Nikon did not properly address).

    3. Seems that Nikon is the only company that does not understand that to create glass capable of showing off the D800e and the ones to come you need "exotic glass" even sigma used it on the 120-300 f2.8 and optical quality is competitive with Primes and with the 200-400mm. Just trowing nano Crystal and doubling the price is not working any more.

    I hope they address that. For my kind of photography the autofocus works, but it not all about my needs.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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