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Thread: Nikon D4s

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    Nikon D4s

    Hi ,

    Nikon just "announced" the future announcement of the D4s

    Nikon | News | To be exhibited at 2014 International CES A next-generation flagship model offering specifications that respond more completely to the needs of professional photographers Digital SLR camera Nikon D4S

    The good: they will address the autofocus system, that, as I say before, is one generation back from Canon's to say the less.

    People that shot the 1DX for action normally have difficulties with the D4 autofocusing speed. Also not having a current generation autofocus force Nikon to cripple products like the D610.

    The worrisome: The bit about the image quality what can be read from it? are they using the same sensor with new logic? We already know that the Df does better but Nikon needs more to continue to be an alternative to Canon.

    The Funny: Why this pre-announcement are they aware that something big is coming or they know that pros are moving to Canon (autofocus) for the olympics and they want to control the migration?


    For me, that I don't shoot sports for living the good part is the important one.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    First its great that the sports photographers and competition with Canon is pushing Nikon to make available the very best technology . The photographers for the Olympics have already made their decisions and have their equipment but it is a showcase for both Canon and Nikon …so they want to have their best available .

    From a practical standpoint …the D4 has an AF system that is well beyond most photographers . I shoot polo and it will continuously track players coming directly at me behind the goal …and keep the ball sharp all the way in .

    These appear to be incremental improvements (well received but not game changers ) . Its not easy to improve on a camera that is so well designed for its intended use .

    Still waiting for a 56MP D4X .
    Roger Dunham
    http://rogerdunham.com/
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    +1 Roger. No doubt there will be small yet nevertheless valuable incremental improvements and maybe a surprise or two that raises eyebrows but unless there is something so unexpected out of left field, I get the feeling it's more of a refresh as most of the "s" models generally are, than a groundbreaking new camera in terms of functionality.

    On the occasions I've used one, I was suitably impressed with very low light tracking of extremely fast moving targets that who's movements were often in random directions.

    As for improvements in image quality, yes, many feel there is some degree of noticeable improvement seen in the Nikon Df vs the D4 but these differences aren't so dramatic that in everyday shooting, they'll make or break an image.

    It's all additive so that over time one would hope some of the technology like its Af modeule, makes its way down to other models in Nikon's line-up.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    While I second the wish/need for a faster and more accurate AF system which equals or better tops the current one of the Camon 1DX, I do not understand the aim for 50+ MP.

    IMHO it would be far better to build a really good and fast sensor with 28 to 32 MP and forget everything higher resolution in a FF camera. Say 28MP with the same sensor performance as the current 16MP D4 sensor would be a dream!

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    +1 Roger. No doubt there will be small yet nevertheless valuable incremental improvements and maybe a surprise or two that raises eyebrows but unless there is something so unexpected out of left field, I get the feeling it's more of a refresh as most of the "s" models generally are, than a groundbreaking new camera in terms of functionality.

    On the occasions I've used one, I was suitably impressed with very low light tracking of extremely fast moving targets that who's movements were often in random directions.

    As for improvements in image quality, yes, many feel there is some degree of noticeable improvement seen in the Nikon Df vs the D4 but these differences aren't so dramatic that in everyday shooting, they'll make or break an image.

    It's all additive so that over time one would hope some of the technology like its Af modeule, makes its way down to other models in Nikon's line-up.

    Dave (D&A)
    In general I agree. Have you use the Canon 1Dx in a sports situation with good light? Is so, can you share your experience ?

    In mine, and from most people that I know or read , is like night and day (vs the D4).

    This (removing the color on the back) match my findings :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNFOPrIKmQ

    The more pleasing part when they pull from the shadows is due to the extra dynamic range on the Nikon. You can match the Canon look with the Nikon by adjusting the black point (trimming dynamic range) , you can't get the dynamic range from the Canon file. So, at this moment and for me, the Nikon system is better. In particular I also want/need the high resolution.

    About the political note at the end please disregard. (I agree in principe but I don't believe that paying an adult model is akin to trafficking).

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Maybe they will implement small-RAW in the D4s?

    I love my D4 and I am continually amazed by the autofocus system. It's as if it has some kind of artificial intelligence - it just knows where to focus. I never experienced that in my Canon cameras.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    J.Duncan and Brad,

    J. Duncan, I have not used the Canon 1Dx, so it's hard for me to compared it against the D4 in terms of Af tracking. Some say the Canon is leagues better, some say maybe not so much. I have no idea where the truth lies.

    Brad, I agree it would nice to implement small-RAW output in the upcoming D4s, but as we previous discussed this topic, it even makes more sense in doing so in the 36MP D800. If Canon can do it, why shouldn't Nikon?

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    As far as AF speed goes, it seems to depend on test conditions. In very low light, the 1DX is, apparently, leagues behind the D4.

    I've also read reviews that tout both cameras as having superior AF so I don't believe the real winner is as universal as some would think.

    Of course, better AF is always welcome regardless of what other cameras can or cannot do. Unfortunately, I expect that a really big jump in AF performance may require the purchase of new lenses. Just a guess.

    I expect the IQ is also slightly better since Nikon has certainly learned something in the past few years.

    I'm not sure that will be enough to get me to upgrade from the D4 though.

    On the other hand, a 50+ MP Nikon body would get my immediate, serious attention.

    As would a 50+ MP Sony body.

    -Bill
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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    50+MP sounds good, but not for sports. The workflow would be monstrous.
    Brad Husick

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    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    As far as AF speed goes, it seems to depend on test conditions. In very low light, the 1DX is, apparently, leagues behind the D4.

    I've also read reviews that tout both cameras as having superior AF so I don't believe the real winner is as universal as some would think.

    Of course, better AF is always welcome regardless of what other cameras can or cannot do. Unfortunately, I expect that a really big jump in AF performance may require the purchase of new lenses. Just a guess.

    I expect the IQ is also slightly better since Nikon has certainly learned something in the past few years.

    I'm not sure that will be enough to get me to upgrade from the D4 though.

    On the other hand, a 50+ MP Nikon body would get my immediate, serious attention.

    As would a 50+ MP Sony body.

    -Bill
    I've owned both the D4 and 1DX in the last year.. the D4 is indeed better in low light,but the 1DX is faster most of the time..

    Rob

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I've owned both the D4 and 1DX in the last year.. the D4 is indeed better in low light,but the 1DX is faster most of the time..

    Rob
    That sounds quite plausible.

    If there is a big improvement in AF speed it will be tempting.

    -Bill

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    50+MP sounds good, but not for sports. The workflow would be monstrous.
    LOL

    Oh yes, it would really, really stink.

    -Bill

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    As a D800E user, I'm hoping they build something that's a step forward in more than just better AF. The first thing that came to mind is 4K video output that saves to the CF Card in a minimally compressed format. That would be a major step forward. Canon is killing them on the video side of things even though Nikon seems to have better sensors.
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    50MP would demand even more of the same lenses which are found wanting on 36MP, so I'm not sure much will be gained until the general standard of lenses is improved.

    I'm thrilled that Canon has forced Nikon to speed up the focus of the D4 in nornmal light and in the reviews I have seen (not low light I might add) the Canon was miles faster to focus and fire.

    I now hope Canon will get their heads out their derriers when it comes to dynamic range.

    ...Canon and Nikon need each other and while we are at it, Sony have given them both a few lessons in innnovation so all in all, everyone wins!

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterSteve View Post
    As a D800E user, I'm hoping they build something that's a step forward in more than just better AF. The first thing that came to mind is 4K video output that saves to the CF Card in a minimally compressed format. That would be a major step forward. Canon is killing them on the video side of things even though Nikon seems to have better sensors.

    Agree with you that Canon is killing them on video. But at this moment they are too far ahead to point in that direction with the Olympics at hand.

    There are few things that are kilingl Nikon, from my point of view (not taking my needs as the center of the analysis):

    1. Bad quality control. The D800 was a killer product and the D600 other whose market performance was hurt by bad quality. The D4 has the green cast issue.

    2. Old days approach to controlling issues. Just trow it under the carpet and hope nobody notice. That don't work on the internet age. They mishandle all the issues on point 1 from a communication perspective.

    3. The autofocus issue in good light. This has a dual effect: Not only the D4 lacks the autofocus speed of the 1DX in good light, but more important you are forced to put old generation autofocus systems on machines like the D600. Canon is doing the same, so this is not letal but is problematic.

    4. Lenses. Nikon is marketing is base on big megapixel counts etc, in general image quality. Most of Nikon lenses are subpar. Sigma, Tamron and Canon are improving fast. They need better glass.

    That's my perspective. Nikon is tinny compared to Canon. They need to focus. They make a substantial video push with the D800 generation. We can get "clean video" from the new Nikons, that should handle quality at this moment and give us long clips. Note that Nikon PR is failing to offer this option and that they have not produce or publish the inter-company partnerships to exploit this strength or promote this option.

    4K should be next, plus low compression options as you stated. But for now AF seams the proper focus (no pun intended).

    Best regards,

    J. Duncan

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Nikon is not even up to 36MP demands with most of their lens lineup. Especially lenses such as the 1.4/85G which is highly praised in so many threads and fora, suffers fro bad quality control and Nikon service could not even repair mine - said it is within tolerances. Since then I almost never used it anymore on my D800E!

    Under these circumstances I do actually pray for not getting any camera with even higher MP count than 36MP, as the Nikkor lenses are simply NOT up to these demands!

    There is also big lack in bringing the AF modules in their high end offerings up to date (on par with Canon from 1DX and 5D3) - come on Nikon, 2 years after the introduction from new Canon AF you are still not able to offer a similar solution????

    And finally (but this is unfortunately also true for Canon) they do still not have a decent mirror less offering - at least APSC based. So the future seems not too bright IMHO for them.

    Just trying to build the big irons like D4 (or maybe D4s) without support of the rest will finally not pay the bills!

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post

    Under these circumstances I do actually pray for not getting any camera with even higher MP count than 36MP, as the Nikkor lenses are simply NOT up to these demands!
    +1 Nikkor needs to reverse engineer a few Zeiss lenses, but that would teach them nothing about AF.

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Some say the Canon is leagues better, some say maybe not so much. I have no idea where the truth lies.
    //
    In mine, and from most people that I know or read , is like night and day (vs the D4).
    Given how fast earlier models were (1D4, D3(s)),
    I did not think that there could be "leagues" in which
    to make a difference! --as in, how much of a potential
    3 nanoseconds (whatever) can one perceive?!

    -d.
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    This is an interesting thread. As for the OP and his speculation about migration to Canon during the Olympics - that is way off base, as we say in the states.

    I believe the reason Nikon announced the D4s is because some Nikon shooters will be using the new camera and corporate wasted to get ahead of the curve. Better for the company to make an announcement that a bunch of questions at the Olympics when folks see the new camera.
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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Hi ,

    For the D4 shutters, will you prefer that Nikon drops XQD and adopted Cfast or dual CF?

    Please notice that Sony did not use the XQD for the A7 not for the DSLR line. Only Nikon adopted it on the still camera space.

    Lexar Announces Sample Availability of the World

    lexar XQD | B&H Photo Video


    Please notice that Lexar have stated that they remain committed to XQD
    Best regards,

    J. Duncan

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    This is at least a marginally interesting topic for me. I have used both the D4 and the D1X professionally for the past year, and I don't see a lot of difference in most situations other than low light. In low light the D4 is significantly better.

    I've had situations even in good light where the D1x has missed focus, and that has been very frustrating to me, especially when I thought I had the shot, but found out too late that I didn't! The D1X has worked better for me in situations where I have an erratically moving subject, and may have things come between me and my subject. In those cases it has held focus better than the D4. Fortunately, I don't shoot a lot of those types of situations, so for me it's pretty much a toss up. I will say, however, that the D1X, paired with the new, second generation Canon 500mm IS lens, is a dream come true!

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    Re: Nikon D4s

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    This is at least a marginally interesting topic for me. I have used both the D4 and the D1X professionally for the past year, and I don't see a lot of difference in most situations other than low light. In low light the D4 is significantly better.

    I've had situations even in good light where the D1x has missed focus, and that has been very frustrating to me, especially when I thought I had the shot, but found out too late that I didn't! The D1X has worked better for me in situations where I have an erratically moving subject, and may have things come between me and my subject. In those cases it has held focus better than the D4. Fortunately, I don't shoot a lot of those types of situations, so for me it's pretty much a toss up. I will say, however, that the D1X, paired with the new, second generation Canon 500mm IS lens, is a dream come true!

    Really? this thing Nikon D1x Review: Digital Photography Review focus better in good light than Nikon finest (the D4)??

    No wonder Nikon is not doing well :-)

    Jokes aside ( I know is the 1DX) that mirror my findings. Let see how the D4s does.

    I was hopping for an updated chip like the D3-> D3s but it's plain that this is not the case.

    Best regards,

    J. Duncan

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