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Thread: Nikon to Leica S?

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    Nikon to Leica S?

    Morning!

    I have a good Nikon kit now but have been very tempted with a Leica S kit for a while and as life is for living, I'm seriously looking at options.

    Has anyone gone from a Nikon setup to the Leica? Any comments? I would be going from a couple of D800's, Zeiss 21 and 135, Nikkor 200 f2 plus a couple of cheaper lenses, a 50 and 85 1.8g. I'd need to sell all to help fund the Leica.

    What's holding me back at the moment is the Zeiss 135 f2 and the Nikkor 200 f2, both incredible lenses on the D800, I'm wondering if I will miss them too much! I'd like to slim down my kit to possibly a 120 for portraits and a wide.

    Any comments or real life experiences would be appreciated!

    Cheers

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Morning!

    I have a good Nikon kit now but have been very tempted with a Leica S kit for a while and as life is for living, I'm seriously looking at options.

    Has anyone gone from a Nikon setup to the Leica? Any comments? I would be going from a couple of D800's, Zeiss 21 and 135, Nikkor 200 f2 plus a couple of cheaper lenses, a 50 and 85 1.8g. I'd need to sell all to help fund the Leica.

    What's holding me back at the moment is the Zeiss 135 f2 and the Nikkor 200 f2, both incredible lenses on the D800, I'm wondering if I will miss them too much! I'd like to slim down my kit to possibly a 120 for portraits and a wide.

    Any comments or real life experiences would be appreciated!

    Cheers

    Mat
    Hi Matt

    I have both,the S is excellent,the IQ is superb and the glass is stunning,great from wide open,and with a huge bright viewfinder and AF which you dont have with your Zeiss glass.

    The color from the CCD is very good and to my eyes better than the D800e,I would consider the 180 over the 120 for portraits because the 120 AF is slow due to it being a macro.

    Rob

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Hi Matt,

    I've had both Nikon 800e and Leica S2.
    The quality of Nikon D800e with Nikon 200mm f/2 is very closed to Leica S2 and Leica 180mm but the 200mm is much heavier. The Leica S2 with the 120mm Micro is one of the best lenses in Leica series and I like it better than the 135 Zeiss which I've had in Sony mount.
    My lenses for the Nikon are mainly Zeiss lenses (15, 18, 21, 35mm). The quality of them are more than enough for the print size of 24" wide. I've rarely printed bigger than this size although thinking about it.
    Leica's lens quality is almost as good as tech camera which I've been using with the IQ260 and P25+. The color and sharpness is fantastic.
    The Leica lenses in 2nd hand market is cheaper than or equal to the new Zeiss 55mm (except the Leica S 24mm, 30mm and 30-90mm). The Leica 70mm is ~ $3, 300. What a surprise!
    I went to the DC last month and shot in a rain with Leica. It proved to me it is water resistance. My Nikon D800E died on me during the trip to Maine 2 years ago.
    My conclusion is that the Nikon D800E and Zeiss lenses are more than enough for photo quality but if you want the best and greatest pleasure to handle, Leica S cannot be beaten. It also has a good future as the lenses can handle more than the current MP. I believe the 50MP CMOS is on the corner although I am not very interested in and most likely will not upgrade to. I need only the lowest ISO as I can get, not the highest. I have tripods!
    Please email me for any questions. You and me are quite similar. We are "Landscape (only)" photographers. Your works's always inspired me.
    Agree with Rob!

    Best

    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 28th January 2014 at 05:21.

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Thanks for the info gents

    Rob, how do you find the viewfinder for manual focus? I manual focus all the lenses on the D800, I just prefer it that way and to be honest, for what I shoot I'm not that bothered with af. I saw that there are different screens available, that is appealing if any are optimised for mf.

    Pramote, thanks for the info, I was hoping you'd reply! You are right, the zeiss on the Nikon gives superb files and certainly good enough for the 24" print. I'm lucky enough to have migrated from pleasure only to actually having a few contracts this year and want the best files I can get, the S glass is what is really pulling me. I have watched the Leica become a mature system with a pretty good range of glass so it feels safe to get onboard with a view to it being something i stick with. I did say that about my Alpa and also about the Nikon, the Alpa has gone and the Nikon is on the edge!

    Thanks also for the complement, you are being very kind as some of the best shots I have seen on here have come from you.

    I think it's time to look in to the market for my lenses.

    Thanks again both.

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Thanks for the info gents

    Rob, how do you find the viewfinder for manual focus? I manual focus all the lenses on the D800, I just prefer it that way and to be honest, for what I shoot I'm not that bothered with af. I saw that there are different screens available, that is appealing if any are optimised for mf.

    Pramote, thanks for the info, I was hoping you'd reply! You are right, the zeiss on the Nikon gives superb files and certainly good enough for the 24" print. I'm lucky enough to have migrated from pleasure only to actually having a few contracts this year and want the best files I can get, the S glass is what is really pulling me. I have watched the Leica become a mature system with a pretty good range of glass so it feels safe to get onboard with a view to it being something i stick with. I did say that about my Alpa and also about the Nikon, the Alpa has gone and the Nikon is on the edge!

    Thanks also for the complement, you are being very kind as some of the best shots I have seen on here have come from you.

    I think it's time to look in to the market for my lenses.

    Thanks again both.

    Mat

    You've made my day Matt! The words from you mean a lot to me.
    I've had S2 with 35, 70, 120 and 180mm. I've also used the Hasselblad HC/HCD lenses to complement the S2 (28mm, 35-90mm, 50mm, 150, 210, 300mm). The Hasselblad lenses are cheap in a 2nd hand market compared to their quality. AF of the HC/HCD is exactly the same when you use them with either the S2 or the H4D/H3D.
    Therefore, the Leica S system may not be as expensive as you would think of.
    Oh, the viewfinder is the best among all cameras I've had with the split screen. Compared to the D800E? Black and white is all I can say. The viewfinder for MF in D800e is horrible.

    Pramote

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Thanks for the info gents

    Rob, how do you find the viewfinder for manual focus? I manual focus all the lenses on the D800, I just prefer it that way and to be honest, for what I shoot I'm not that bothered with af. I saw that there are different screens available, that is appealing if any are optimised for mf.

    Pramote, thanks for the info, I was hoping you'd reply! You are right, the zeiss on the Nikon gives superb files and certainly good enough for the 24" print. I'm lucky enough to have migrated from pleasure only to actually having a few contracts this year and want the best files I can get, the S glass is what is really pulling me. I have watched the Leica become a mature system with a pretty good range of glass so it feels safe to get onboard with a view to it being something i stick with. I did say that about my Alpa and also about the Nikon, the Alpa has gone and the Nikon is on the edge!

    Thanks also for the complement, you are being very kind as some of the best shots I have seen on here have come from you.

    I think it's time to look in to the market for my lenses.

    Thanks again both.

    Mat
    Matt the viewfinder is like live view,its really bright and I use it with the Gridded Focusing Screen which makes it pretty easy,

    The S24 is one lens you should try,when you get the focus precise its razor sharp over the entire inage and has excellent contrast and color,

    I also have a hasselblad,I find the HC lenses really good but the main difference between S glass and HC is that S glass is excellent from wide open and starts to show diffraction at f8,where as HC glass is strong at F8 and f11.They compliment each other well.

    Rob

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Excellent, thanks again guys.

    I need to look a little closer at the differences between the S2 and S, see what the real differences are as there are some "cheap" S2's around. Great news about the viewfinder, I don't find the D800 too bad to be honest but I can value a good viewfinder experience!

    Cheers

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Hi Mat,
    I dont have experience with d800 but had a D3x and a D700 and some nice Nikon lenses (14-24, 24/1.4, 105DC, 200/2.0VR 70-200VRII and some more) which I replaced with Canon (with some very nice lenses including the 21mm Zeiss, the 135L, 50L, 24-70II and now Sigma 35/1.4 and also additional have used S2 (now S) with several lenses.
    Some comments:
    1) be ready to have considerably slower but therefore very accurate AF; I have not had any need for focus calibration in any of my 5 S-lenses)
    2) be ready to be more limited regarding low light; ISO 800 is fine, ISO160 is ok but not great, and the fastest lens is f2.5, and no VR
    3) I find the images from the S stand out; Colors are better than anything else I have used, detail, micro detail is exceptional, and the images have very smooth transitions
    4) the viewfinder of the S is also very nice to use, even clearly larger than that of FF-DSLRs
    5) If you like 135 and 200 mm so much I would think the 180mm Leica S lens might suit you better than 120mm, because it is like a 150mm FF lens. So maybe 35,70,180.
    But then I would say the 120 S is more comparable to the smooth rendering of the Nikon 200VR.

    I think just from the "look" and IQ you would not miss the 135 and 200VR, but maybe from the speed point of view. I take images of my small kids with the S, but it is much slower camera than a Nikon or my 5DIII.
    Therefore you get an extra booster in IQ.
    I own 30,35 (plan to sell one of those 2), 70,120,180 - My most used lens is 70 (which is also the smallest lens) and 35mm. So in many case I just carry 35 and 70 or 30 and 70mm.
    By the way the Lowepro FastPack200 is my Fav bag and I can carry the S+2 lenses easily also for long hikes.
    The good thing is that I am sure you will realize than one doesnt really need so many lenses.

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Hi Paratom

    You've hit on a really important point there, I've always enjoyed a 1 or 2 lens setup, I now have loads and always appear to be changing lenses, there's a lot to be said for simplicity! When I had the Alpa I had 2 lenses and basically shot with just the 1 most of the time, so much more time to spend on composition, I prefer to frame with the viewfinder rather than with the lenses I have if that makes sense!

    I am a slow shooter anyway, looking through my D800 shots, nothing is over 400 ISO, very rarely anyway. The things I hope to gain from the move is colour and file quality which I believe I will get, I absolutely love the 200 for portraits so maybe I'll test the 180 as well as the 120, I have seen shots from the 120 that look stunning.

    Ultimately the D800 is easily good enough but desire is a good thing, if I can sell my kit then I think I'll go for it.

    Cheers!

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Mat,take a look at the 30-90 zoom as a one lens solution,it is by all accounts an superb lens,its not cheap nut may be the only lens you need.

    best

    Rob

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    30-90 may not be the best portrait optic if Mat likes longer lenses on his Nikon. May have to also get a 180mm … BTW, there is an Elpro filter made specifically for the S180 that allows for a closer focusing (head shots, etc.).

    The S2/S AF is faster than some may think. Not Pro Nikon/Canon fast, but I consistantely shoot wedding candids and family outings with kids & dogs, etc with excellent results. The trick is to assign AF to the thumb button, and use the shutter button for shooting. Much faster, but still accurate.

    One thing to consider is looking to the future … the S2/S substantially steps away from any 35mm DSLR if you also use the CS lens option with lighting. Portrait work takes on a whole new level of fun and creative options when you can sync any strobe lighting up to 1/1000. All the Hasselblad HC/HCD lenses also sync to 1/750 shutter. You may not use lighting now, but with a CS lens it remains an option … even with the SF58 speed light in the hot shoe for fill, you can shoot at 1/1000 and use a more open aperture, or control a over-exposed background that's back lighting the subject.

    One last thing, if you do B&Ws the S2/S will immediately become your best B&W camera. It is visably better up to ISO 640 than my Leica M Monochrome.

    I have the CS35, CS70, HC100/2.2, CS120, and CS180 (and have the Elpro on order). Since I shoot mostly people, I prefer the CS35mm to avoid distortion of people toward the sides of the frame (like when shooting multiple people, or environmental portraits with the subject off-center.

    Hope this helps,

    -Marc
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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Hey MJR,

    I use the leica a lot but I rent it. It is a real jewel and I agree you should go for it.

    Go for the S, not the S2. The S2 was a bit "cheap" in hands (plastics and all) but the S feel more serious.

    For the lenses I use for now only the 70 and the 120. Renter do not have other lenses.

    But the 180 ... mmmmm this lens sound perfect. If one day I can, I will buy it, sure.

    I recommend you going for the zoom and the 180. Very nice combo.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    I really liked the 30-90 lens. The 120 hunts like a dog, Sorry but not a quick lens. The 180 is very very nice
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    I was temted by the zoom but I use the faster f-stop of the primes quite often and couldnt justify both. i also find the 30-90 a bit on the heavy side. However for outside work in good light or tripod use it could replace 30,35 and 70.
    I still would want at least one faster lens in the 35-70 range if I had the zoom.
    Tom

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Thanks all, great advice!

    I think the zoom plus the 180 would be superb but bloody expensive that setup!

    Marc, lighting is top of my list so cs may be a necessity, what speed does the 30-90 sync at?

    Guy, I think you need a 200 f2 in your life again! Haha.

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Hey Hulyss

    That's interesting on the feel, I didn't know the bodies were different apart from the obvious changes with the S, I know that if I can raise the money I'd rather have S

    Cheers

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Hey Hulyss

    That's interesting on the feel, I didn't know the bodies were different apart from the obvious changes with the S, I know that if I can raise the money I'd rather have S

    Cheers

    Mat
    Ye go for the S. He is better build. I think the S2 and the S body are partially made by Panasonic but I might be wrong
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Thanks Hulyss.

    Not seen much of your work on here recently, you busy or not using the Nikon much?

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Thanks all, great advice!

    I think the zoom plus the 180 would be superb but bloody expensive that setup!

    Marc, lighting is top of my list so cs may be a necessity, what speed does the 30-90 sync at?

    Guy, I think you need a 200 f2 in your life again! Haha.

    Mat
    There is no CS version of the Zoom available and I think its limited to 1/125th sec flash sync..

    The same applies to the S24mm..

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Ah right, thanks Rob, less likely that I'd be using the zoom for studio/flash work but interesting to know what it is capable of. I don't have any zooms, I actually prefer primes but have read very good things on the quality of the 30-90.

    Cheers

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Ah right, thanks Rob, less likely that I'd be using the zoom for studio/flash work but interesting to know what it is capable of. I don't have any zooms, I actually prefer primes but have read very good things on the quality of the 30-90.

    Cheers

    Mat
    Mat,I'm also more of a prime user,and mine are all CS as I love using flash too,I guess the Zoom would be great to have when travelling with the intention of landscape,architecture etc and you dont have to worry about changing lenses and picking up dust,also keeps the bag light,its not that heavy at 1200grams,the hasselblad 35-90 is about 1450grams..

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Thanks Hulyss.

    Not seen much of your work on here recently, you busy or not using the Nikon much?

    Mat
    Very very busy

    I'll be back
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Hey MJR,

    ....Go for the S, not the S2. The S2 was a bit "cheap" in hands (plastics and all) but the S feel more serious....
    The price difference between the S and S2 is ~ $ 10, 000.
    To me...It is a luxurious camera compared to Nikon 800e and a little "more expensive" in hands compared to the Phase One DF+ and Hasselblad H.
    If you can have $10, 000 to spend, go for it! If I were you (I guess you will use it for landscape work) I will keep $10, 000 to buy a Leica lens (30-90mm) or a couple of Leica lenses.
    Or wait for Leica CMOS 50mp!
    Pramote
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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Pramote

    You are of course correct, the sensor is the same, better high ISO performance that I don't really need and $10k will buy some great trips to some stunning landscapes, which is after all the whole point!

    Cheers!

    Mat

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    The price difference between the S and S2 is ~ $ 10, 000.
    To me...It is a luxurious camera compared to Nikon 800e and a little "more expensive" in hands compared to the Phase One DF+ and Hasselblad H.
    If you can have $10, 000 to spend, go for it! If I were you (I guess you will use it for landscape work) I will keep $10, 000 to buy a Leica lens (30-90mm) or a couple of Leica lenses.
    Or wait for Leica CMOS 50mp!
    Pramote
    I did move from the S2 to the S mostly for the slightly better 1600 ISO. Also the "facelift" from S2 to S included many small improvements + the 3 years warranty. From what I hear reliability of the S is improved over the S2.

    Having said this I agree that you can buy 1-2 nice lenses if you get a good deal for a used S2 instead of buying the S.
    I don't share the impression that the S feels more solid in the hand than the S2.
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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Not an S user, but a Pentax 645d and D800E user. Some thoughts:

    Viewfinder is no comparison. D800 is small and dark and a pain with manual focus.

    The color is better in the 645d. Whether this is a CCDS CMOS thing, I don't know. The S and 645d share the same CCDS technology. If the S gets a new CMOS, it will not be 50Mp, but something less because of aspect ratio. I don't think the difference in resolution is big.

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Thanks all, great advice!

    I think the zoom plus the 180 would be superb but bloody expensive that setup!

    Marc, lighting is top of my list so cs may be a necessity, what speed does the 30-90 sync at?

    Guy, I think you need a 200 f2 in your life again! Haha.

    Mat
    The 24mm, 30-90zoom and TS-APO 120/5.6 are not offered in CS versions and according to Leica will not be in future. So the top sync speed with strobes is 1/125 … which is why all my lenses are the CS versions, and why I don't have the zoom (can't afford that kind of redundancy).

    I think a nice "eventual" kit would be the CS30, CS45, CS70 (which sometimes can be secured more economically with a used S2 camera), and the CS180 for portraits. The CS120 is an amazing optic but slower handling due to the longer throw for precise macro focusing.

    The problem with CS lenses is that they were very late coming so not many used ones out there … where the focal plane versions have been around longer and there are a lot more of them, especially the 70 and 180 which were the first two lenses released. Leica had some nice deals on refurbished S lenses after they fulfilled the promise to early adopters to take them in trade for CS versions at the retail price difference. That is essentially how I got all my lenses upgraded to new CS ones after 3 years of owning the regular ones.

    BTW, I also do not agree that the build quality is substantively different between the two models. The new S has a better LCD cover (Gorilla Glass) than the regular S2, however the S2P has an even better LCD cover (if you can find one). Most of the teething issues with the S2 were worked out and any issues swiftly dealt with by Leica … so most S2s are now just fine.

    What the new S offers is a bit lower initial ISO @ 100, and a bit higher @ 1,600; a better buffer, supposedly slightly better AF (although few folks have been able to detect that in practical application), and a few other things as part of an evolutionary improvement … wasn't enough for me to upgrade at these prices.

    If Leica goes CMOS, which I suspect they will, I won't be getting that one either unless they can match the CCD color of the S2/S, especially skin tones.

    - Marc

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I really liked the 30-90 lens. The 120 hunts like a dog, Sorry but not a quick lens. The 180 is very very nice
    Exactly my impressions on using the 120 with both the S and S2 bodies on a number of occasions. It hunted constantly and often had difficulty locking focus with good indoor lighting including a couple modeling lights from strobes. It did better outdoors. Optically though a superb piece of glass as was the rest of Leica S optics I used.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    120mm macros are just in some magical optical sweet spot. I can't think of one that is less than stellar. I really like the 120mm as a short telephoto over the more common 150mm. The thing I like is there is no practical minimum focus distance for most photography like portraits. The 150mm lenses I have used have always had a minimum focus distance that is just a little too long.

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    I agree that the 120 takes longer for focusing but I would like to mention that I do not find this to be really bad. The long focus throw also helps for precise focusing when using manual focus. Also if you use the lens in light situations where it can hunt too much it is easy to manually focus due to the shallow DOF and the bright viewfinder (and f2.5).
    I also suggested the 180 for portrait but in the other side the 120 is more compact, faster, slightly smoother bokeh and has the advantage of close focusing distance. Yes-there is the Elpro for the 180 (which I own) but I find it a bit annoying to screw it on and off.
    Cheers, Tom

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I agree that the 120 takes longer for focusing but I would like to mention that I do not find this to be really bad. The long focus throw also helps for precise focusing when using manual focus. Also if you use the lens in light situations where it can hunt too much it is easy to manually focus due to the shallow DOF and the bright viewfinder (and f2.5).
    I also suggested the 180 for portrait but in the other side the 120 is more compact, faster, slightly smoother bokeh and has the advantage of close focusing distance. Yes-there is the Elpro for the 180 (which I own) but I find it a bit annoying to screw it on and off.
    Cheers, Tom
    Oh, do elaborate on the Elpro please! It isn't exactly an inexpensive accessory.

    I understand the minimum focusing distance gets closer, but what is the approx maximum distance to subject so I can evaluate the working range? I don't think I'd be put off by having to put it on as I'd be using it for a series of portraits at certain closer distances.

    Have you tried it on any other S lens? I know it is optimized for the 180, but can it be used on the 120 with "reasonable" success? It'd be great if I could get closer with the 120 than 1:2.

    Thanks in advance,

    - Marc

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I did move from the S2 to the S mostly for the slightly better 1600 ISO. Also the "facelift" from S2 to S included many small improvements + the 3 years warranty. From what I hear reliability of the S is improved over the S2.

    Having said this I agree that you can buy 1-2 nice lenses if you get a good deal for a used S2 instead of buying the S.
    I don't share the impression that the S feels more solid in the hand than the S2.
    When I first grabbed the S2 ... he was slightly used. The plastics was not that good, especially the shutter button I was " wow !!! this ??? at this price ..."

    I was not sure about the battery system too but it seems solid.

    When I got the S : "haaa !!! Better !!"

    There is some second S second hand around too.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Oh, do elaborate on the Elpro please! It isn't exactly an inexpensive accessory.

    I understand the minimum focusing distance gets closer, but what is the approx maximum distance to subject so I can evaluate the working range? I don't think I'd be put off by having to put it on as I'd be using it for a series of portraits at certain closer distances.

    Have you tried it on any other S lens? I know it is optimized for the 180, but can it be used on the 120 with "reasonable" success? It'd be great if I could get closer with the 120 than 1:2.

    Thanks in advance,

    - Marc
    The german S-Website says:
    LEICA ELPRO-S 180MM
    Die Nahlinse Leica Elpro-S 180 mm ist ausschließlich zur Verwendung am Leica APO-Elmar-S 1:3,5/180 mm vorgesehen und wird in das Filtergewinde des Objektivs geschraubt. Mit dem angesetztem Leica Elpro-S 180mm kann man im Bereich von 1,1 bis 2,7 m fokussieren und erreicht bei der Naheinstellgrenze einen Abbildungsmaßstab von 1:4,5.

    - distance 1,1-2,7 meter
    - it is exclusively thought to be used on the 180

    I just screwed it on the 120 and it seems to work, but I don't know yet how good the IQ will be.
    Overall haven't really used the Elpro so far so I can't tell you how good it is, but I have run to the short distance limit of the 180 some times before so I thought it is good to have the Elpro.
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    Re: Nikon to Leica S?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The 24mm, 30-90zoom and TS-APO 120/5.6 are not offered in CS versions and according to Leica will not be in future. So the top sync speed with strobes is 1/125 … which is why all my lenses are the CS versions, and why I don't have the zoom (can't afford that kind of redundancy).

    I think a nice "eventual" kit would be the CS30, CS45, CS70 (which sometimes can be secured more economically with a used S2 camera), and the CS180 for portraits. The CS120 is an amazing optic but slower handling due to the longer throw for precise macro focusing.

    The problem with CS lenses is that they were very late coming so not many used ones out there … where the focal plane versions have been around longer and there are a lot more of them, especially the 70 and 180 which were the first two lenses released. Leica had some nice deals on refurbished S lenses after they fulfilled the promise to early adopters to take them in trade for CS versions at the retail price difference. That is essentially how I got all my lenses upgraded to new CS ones after 3 years of owning the regular ones.

    BTW, I also do not agree that the build quality is substantively different between the two models. The new S has a better LCD cover (Gorilla Glass) than the regular S2, however the S2P has an even better LCD cover (if you can find one). Most of the teething issues with the S2 were worked out and any issues swiftly dealt with by Leica … so most S2s are now just fine.

    What the new S offers is a bit lower initial ISO @ 100, and a bit higher @ 1,600; a better buffer, supposedly slightly better AF (although few folks have been able to detect that in practical application), and a few other things as part of an evolutionary improvement … wasn't enough for me to upgrade at these prices.

    If Leica goes CMOS, which I suspect they will, I won't be getting that one either unless they can match the CCD color of the S2/S, especially skin tones.

    - Marc

    Totally agree that like the key point of medium format, colors.
    The good news is that if the CMOS sensor result in a revolution we may get used CCD based MF cameras on the cheep

    So one way or the other we won.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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