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Thread: D800 resolution

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    D800 resolution

    I did a recent shoot to demo the resolution of the Nikon D800. I knew it was good already, but when I shot this pano along the Long Trail in Vt. It confirmed to me that the D800 really does compete with MFD for certain situations. I only used some minor contrast and exposure adjustments for demo purposes.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 24th February 2014 at 18:07.

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    Re: D800 resolution

    Really nice, what lens?

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Thanks, this was shot with the 85mm1.4G.

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    Member Oamkumar's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    I did a in studio test with D800e with new phase one IQ250, haselblad h4d-40, leaf aptus 80mp and 5d Mark III. And the lenses were normal lenses. Nikon D800E with 50mm 1.8d, hassleblad with 80mm lens, phaseone with 80mm sky leaf shutter lens, leaf with Carl zeiss 80mm lens and canon with 50mm 1.4 lens. It was not a detailed test. But in that nikon was not bad at all, but it was too good when I increased the saturation and a bit contrast. The real winner was the leaf, it was able to capture the color gradation more accurately. I will try to upload the files and and post the link. Right now I am travelling. Once I reach home I will do that.

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Oamkumar,

    I'd love to read your review. I did shoot this same scene with an H4D/40 with similar results, and I guess that's my point - the D800 was just as good. The D800 was easier and lighter to hike with too. I can carry a few more lenses, filters, etc. This photo is for me, observational evidence and not a scientific comparison of the formats. I do agree that Leaf does have wonderful gradations and are well known for their beautiful skin tones.
    Actually, for portraits I would love an Aptus 22 "fat back".

    Another good point is that the various upgrades and steep entry prices of MFD are not necessary for most. The price depreciation between the formats is worth noting too.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 23rd February 2014 at 05:43.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Detail at a certain point is related to lens used over the sensor pixel pitch -- in that, the D800 is at a sweet spot for sure. Stitch 4 frames and you have a 100+MP collage that looks great technically.

    Where MF still shines is color fidelity. CMOS is getting better -- to the point it is excellent -- but IMHO, CCD still rules the day when it comes to color; there's just a look to it that CMOS can't replicate. And to get enough CCD pixels to get extreme detail and the associated processing power to run them, you pretty much need an MF back.

    Now if you want to discuss relative value per pixel, then nothing comes close to the latest 36MP DSLR or mirrorless cams. Ease of use/convenience? Again DSLR/mirrorless. But flat out best color? It's MF CCD.
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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Jack,

    I certainly agree on the CCD color. My M9 photos were a great example of that right out of the camera, but this was just a simple resolution comparison because I've had this same scenic published before with the H4D. I loved my MFD, and I think for architecture and product photography where studio lighting and environment remain a constant, you can't beat MFD.

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    Member Oamkumar's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    I could upload the High res Jpegs. This is converted from the tiff file, created by C1 and D800E file from Capture NX and H4D -40 file from Phocus. I will upload the Raw files soon.
    I agree that the CCD sensor creates greater color, but I doubt, lenses also can play a role in that. for that I need more tests.
    here is the link.
    test_jpegs

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    Senior Member Antonio Chagin's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    For owners of the D800, If you are interested, few are saying that in C1 combined with the IQ250 profile, gets you better color.
    I'm using it and in addition add a selected colors layer for reducing red intensity and correcting the blue as well.

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    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Detail at a certain point is related to lens used over the sensor pixel pitch -- in that, the D800 is at a sweet spot for sure. Stitch 4 frames and you have a 100+MP collage that looks great technically.

    Where MF still shines is color fidelity. CMOS is getting better -- to the point it is excellent -- but IMHO, CCD still rules the day when it comes to color; there's just a look to it that CMOS can't replicate. And to get enough CCD pixels to get extreme detail and the associated processing power to run them, you pretty much need an MF back.

    Now if you want to discuss relative value per pixel, then nothing comes close to the latest 36MP DSLR or mirrorless cams. Ease of use/convenience? Again DSLR/mirrorless. But flat out best color? It's MF CCD.
    Jack,do you think the 16bits makes a difference,I have Leica S and H4d and the color is better than my D800e...

    I have wondered how much of this is CCD and how much might be due to the 16bits..

    Rob

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    The point of starting this thread was in fact, to show relative value per pixel. The D800, Sony A7/r's, DP Merrill's all perform beautifully. My MFD will be my back up camera.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Jack,do you think the 16bits makes a difference,I have Leica S and H4d and the color is better than my D800e...

    I have wondered how much of this is CCD and how much might be due to the 16bits..

    Rob
    It's more than bit depth. I think it's just the way the CCD reacts tonally.
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    It's more than bit depth. I think it's just the way the CCD reacts tonally.
    +1! Very much feel the same Jack. It's hard to separate out all the factors that go into and are responsible for the look of a RAW image, but each time I use one of the CCD based cameras, I feel they have a unique tonality that often can be blindly identified.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    CMOS is still evolving and at base ISO, will rival CCD. How many pro/consumer cameras are manufactured now with ccd technology? Again, the value per pixel is directly related to the cost of cmos vs ccd.

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    Re: D800 resolution

    I think those considerations should be put in a user's context.
    If you're a pro photographer for instance you will find great value for money & per pixel value in a D800 / Sony A7 system. Killer work efficiency.

    But for some landscape/architecture/portrait artists (or sunday artists) what's the point using a D800 + 85mm f1.4 and zeiss lenses f.i. if - for you - the resulting pictures are lacking natural look and presence ?
    This will destroy the interest of using such system.

    Of course there's many picture styles that do not require this special MF look.
    And - as this look is quite subtle - many won't bother about it or won't even see it (I'm convinced it needs trained eyes and some kind of 'left brain' sensitivity to truly see/enjoy it. At least this is my personal interpretation of the reason why there's endless discussion about the MF look myth...).
    It's a quest where personal sensitivity, tolerance to systems and financial wealth play roles.

    I define myself as some kind of sunday artist (hope the french expression of 'artiste du dimanche' survives the translation) and find the per pixel value of my former D800 and my current A7r not good enough for enjoying the printed results as much as I would love to.
    In the contrary I sometimes feel some kind of childish jubilation for some shots made with my S2 & 120mm lens.
    This is a big, heavy, expensive system but its unique pleasure efficiency is priceless and beats everything I've been pleased to use so far.

    And believe me I would love to get rid of the cumbersome S2 and lenses, trade them for the best dslr lenses and get some good amount of extra cash in the wallet. This was one of the hopes I've had in the Sony A7r. Wishful thinking that was...
    Last edited by anGy; 20th March 2014 at 16:36.
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    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    That's a good point... I love your term "pleasure efficiency". You're right, the Leica S2 has generous amounts of that. The one I shot with was a first generation with a really crappy top LCD, but the CCD most certainly has a unique look to photographs, especially portraits. The size is too big for my needs though, and can't justify the cost of lenses. The A7/r will be a good alternative to the D800 for portability and unobtrusive candids, and with the same sensor (a7r) as the D800, it should compete.

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    Re: D800 resolution

    Where MF still shines is color fidelity. CMOS is getting better -- to the point it is excellent -- but IMHO, CCD still rules the day when it comes to color; there's just a look to it that CMOS can't replicate. And to get enough CCD pixels to get extreme detail and the associated processing power to run them, you pretty much need an MF back.

    Thanks Jack for this helpful comment.

    I just tried to photograph a twilight parade on the weekend with my Contax645/eMotion75 MFDB on a monopod and found it so tough that I have thought about investing in a D800 not least since the used price seems to be going down quite a bit. But I was not sure what difference if any apart from convenience and higher ISO would be the outcome, until I read this thread that convinces me it may be worth sticking with my MFDB system despite the inconveniences and scoring fewer keepers with the hope that those shots with the clumsier MFDB system that do turn out all right will be worth the hassle of working within its limitations.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    The D800 is a great cam, don't get me wrong -- I own 2 And if you factor in speed and convenience in use, it can beat most hand-held action or low-light MF solutions pretty handily. But for the best color fidelity and ultimate IQ, MF digital is still king, at least in my humble opinion...
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    Super Duper
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    Where MF still shines is color fidelity. CMOS is getting better -- to the point it is excellent -- but IMHO, CCD still rules the day when it comes to color; there's just a look to it that CMOS can't replicate. And to get enough CCD pixels to get extreme detail and the associated processing power to run them, you pretty much need an MF back.

    Thanks Jack for this helpful comment.

    I just tried to photograph a twilight parade on the weekend with my Contax645/eMotion75 MFDB on a monopod and found it so tough that I have thought about investing in a D800 not least since the used price seems to be going down quite a bit. But I was not sure what difference if any apart from convenience and higher ISO would be the outcome, until I read this thread that convinces me it may be worth sticking with my MFDB system despite the inconveniences and scoring fewer keepers with the hope that those shots with the clumsier MFDB system that do turn out all right will be worth the hassle of working within its limitations.
    I am firmly in the same camp.

    There are certain combinations that bring personal satisfaction or even pure pleasure beyond that which is rationally defensible against competitive, "on paper" comparisons.

    And yes, sometimes they present challenges or hassles which one has to over-come with skill and judgement, but even that old fashioned mastery is part of the personal attraction to certain favored tools.

    I understand your affinity for the Contax 645 and that Dalsa equipped back. I struggled/exhalted with a similar combination for years, but never doubted the possible end result which could be magical. "There's just something about it", as the saying goes.

    In recent years it has been my S system that provides me with that whole "love/hate/love it even more" relationship with my favorite tool of choice. I can rationally tout its optical excellence, versatility as a dual shutter camera with an array of leaf-shutter capable lenses, its relative speed of use, or relative portability for MFD but if it didn't deliver the magic it would all be a hollow defensive argument. It is the image in the end, and how we subjectively favor it that counts.

    I also am still a believer in "horses for courses" and still have my workhorse 35mm Sony SLT gear, and my "super convenient" A7R Mighty Mouse solution. They are fantastic things, but bring no real joy on that visceral level that certain special tools have brought me over the years.

    My first question is always "can I do this with the S? Have I mastered it well enough to make it happen without jeopardizing my vision? With each passing month the answer becomes increasingly yes.

    - Marc

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Where MF still shines is color fidelity. CMOS is getting better -- to the point it is excellent -- but IMHO, CCD still rules the day when it comes to color; there's just a look to it that CMOS can't replicate. And to get enough CCD pixels to get extreme detail and the associated processing power to run them, you pretty much need an MF back.


    Might want to take a look at the Credo 50 review with CMOS chip. CMOS in this size is pretty convincing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: D800 resolution

    "There's just something about it"

    +1 Yes! :-)

    My first question is always "can I do this with ... Have I mastered it well enough to make it happen

    +11 Ouch! :-(

    Might want to take a look at the Credo 50 review with CMOS chip. CMOS in this size is pretty convincing.

    Dial 111 (after checking the size of the price tag) :-o

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Lol

    More like the fire dept to put your wallet out.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: D800 resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lol

    More like the fire dept to put your wallet out.
    What wallet?

    Mine was incinerated long ago.

    I'll watch to see how the new Leica S(007) CMOS does, and have great hopes for it but $25K means risking a bank heist, or winning the lotto in the next 6 months or more likely, sudden death from blunt force trauma when the wife finds out.

    - Marc

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