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Thread: Nikon 1 V3

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    There are still no fast zooms. Fail.
    Brad Husick

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    There are still no fast zooms. Fail.
    Well, what are fast zooms? IMHO these need to be at least 2.8 to 3.5 over the complete range. Which kind of contradicts with the compactness of the Nikon 1 system.

    And if you compare with mirror less APSC and FF the fast zooms are most starting from 3.5 so what is the point here?

    For what the 1 system promises it seems to get mature. We need to see how good the new 18MP sensor finally is WRT IQ of course. But AF wise, especially C-AF and AF tracking it should smoke all the other mirror less offerings - also needs to be proven.

    But if that works (which I hope) then it would really set new standards.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I tried shooting the V1 for indoor sports and even at ISO 3200 the shutter speeds were so slow that all I got was motion blur in the players.

    That's what I mean when I ask for fast zooms. I need shutter speeds of 1/640 sec or faster indoors with the lens wide open and ISO 3200 or 6400.
    Brad Husick
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    I tried shooting the V1 for indoor sports and even at ISO 3200 the shutter speeds were so slow that all I got was motion blur in the players.

    That's what I mean when I ask for fast zooms. I need shutter speeds of 1/640 sec or faster indoors with the lens wide open and ISO 3200 or 6400.
    I fully agree on this!

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Where is the built in eye level viewfinder ?? I was very much looking forward to this camera but no finder means no go for me. Adding a glob on top does not count.
    I think the phone camera folks can shoot at arms length but a person interested in changing lenses etc. wants an eye level finder - at least his one does.
    Sorry Nikon.
    Robert

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    Member cmcmillan's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I agree with that too. Without the right shutter speed, the shots wont look right at all.

    I was debating one of these and the FT-1 Adapter with the 70-200 or 24-70mm FX Lenses on it for some indoor sports work I had coming up in late spring.

    I would need to get a hold of one to test with. Would be nice to have a more compact kit. to take out.

    If it somehow ended up being cheaper than just buying a D7100 to potentially burn up shooting 60-100,000 frames this spring, I may go for it. I want to keep my two D700 bodies chugging along happily for when they're really needed. The D300 can kind of cut it when there is good light, but I don't like shooting her in jpeg above 1600.

    I'd already enjoyed the low res 400fps video on the earlier generation 1 cameras. I would love to be able to play with 720p 120fps shooting instead of upresing the 640x240 400fps video.

    Hopefully there are some body only options soon. Or maybe some early adopters who don't enjoy the camera on release selling off their copies?

    Chris
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I'd very much like to see the camera succeed. I've got a couple of the V1 and a couple of lenses and was hoping to add more.
    I wish they had taken the two level approach to this camera as they did on the
    version 1 , a V1 with viewfinder and a J1 without.
    Oh well.
    Robert
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Nikon makes me cry.

    This could be the camera system I could use for my street life day or night dreams, and it is indeed packed with some technologies the right way. But the usability has been horrible, and now that they come out with a camera closer to the ideal there's still issues including the absurd price.

    On zooms- the zooms don't need to be super fast- to keep t hem small but they are as they are slow.

    Primes- where are the nice fast small primes? They do have TWO good primes and ... that's it.

    I want to see how big this one is and the usability. This could have been my real "next step up from Pentax Q" giving me options for long tele, short and small, if it is small. Seems like with some lens options it's not so small at all.

    - Ricardo

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I think it would not have been so difficult to integrate the EVF in a permanent hump in the middle of the camera, just as it is now if EVF is attached. And then they could have made a version without EVF (and possibility to attach an EVF.

    Actually very simple ?????

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    micro sd, really whats Nikon thinking

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I just saw the micro sd thing this morning. That really kills it for me. I already have a huge enough investment in CF and Regular SD/SDHC cards for my cameras. I don't want to have to buy a bunch of new cards in a new format and get another card reader or an adapter to SD (which will probably be pretty slow).

    I guess I'll just wait about 4-6 months until the eventual V3 fire sale, pick one up for a few hundred dollars at KEH like I did with my J1. Sigh.

    Thom Hogan has a great write up about the V3 and what a weird misstep/mistake it is in design, marketing and features.

    Nikon Introduces V3 | Sans Mirror ? mirrorless, interchangeable lens cameras | Thom Hogan

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    While I find the micro SD cards not the best idea and Nikon would for sure have had free space enough in the V3 for SD cards, I think I can live with micro SD. They are actually cheap and buying 2 or 3 64G cards will not be a too bad addition to the high cost of the V3 kit.

    I rather find the pricing of the kit with grip, kit zoom and EVF for €1200.- much too high - should have been around €800.- max.

    And as was already mentioned, I would have loved a much faster kit zoom (at least 2.8 - 4, better full 2.8) instead of this kit lens.
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I've not been one to rag on a new camera offering, maybe I wasn't interested enough in a given model to care. I may just be venting my disappointment in this case. I know many folks didn't care for the V1 but I really like it - just a solid built little camera that works well.
    Maybe I will grow to accept the V3 and move on with it instead of griping about what it could have been.
    We'll see..
    Robert

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I think I'm starting to understand what Nikon is trying to achieve here. The camera has some advantages that others will have problems following, and very importantly: It's an all-in-one. One and the same camera body can grow from a reasonably pocketable device with a small prime or zoom:



    to this:



    to this 810mm eqv. :



    to this:



    Here's a relatively cool video showing one (paid) photographer's view:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=1Y_9B878Fws

    I would hesitate to move from m4/3 to the V3, but since I use Nikon SLR cameras anyway, I would lie if I said that I haven't considered the option. The investment would be rather modest compared to what I would have to pay to get to top level m4/3 gear (GH4 + 42.5mm f/1.2 +++).

    A travel set consisting of body with viewfinder plus 6.7-13mm, 18mm f/1.8 and 32mm f/1.2 looks tempting also

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Does this thing really only come with a Micro-SD slot?
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    Does this thing really only come with a Micro-SD slot?
    Yup. I don't get why Nikon felt this was necessary honestly.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I think I'm starting to understand what Nikon is trying to achieve here. The camera has some advantages that others will have problems following, and very importantly: It's an all-in-one. One and the same camera body can grow from a reasonably pocketable device with a small prime or zoom:
    I do like what Nikon is trying to do here, but I just wish they had the right lenses. I also want to pick it up and see if the joke-plastic buttons they had in the V1/V2 are gone. I don't like it has the wheel in the back- I wish it had just buttons.

    That said, I have some interest in it. I am not too encouraged by the samples I saw from them, but then it's probably all pre-production. I am going to hunt for F1.2 lens V2 raw files and see how they are.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I think it would not have been so difficult to integrate the EVF in a permanent hump in the middle of the camera, just as it is now if EVF is attached. And then they could have made a version without EVF (and possibility to attach an EVF.

    Actually very simple ?????
    Believe it or not as much as I hate detachable EVF's, this is probably the first one I am ok with because when attaching it looks "built-in" if that makes sense. Doesn't look like it will tear off or break. It does create the mutual exclusion from external flash though.

    But I like if you want to make the camera even smaller, you do have the option.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Does someone know a real good source of well taken Nikon 1 V2 pics? In particular with the F1.8 and F1.2 primes...

    thanks in advance.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    Does this thing really only come with a Micro-SD slot?
    Yes, but while I don't particularly like that, there are 128GB Micro-SD cards available, and 64GB cards cost next to nothing. If the RAW files are 20MB, 128GB rooms 6,400 images per card. That's 178 rolls of film in my F6. Shouldn't be a problem

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    How small? Very small!


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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Does someone know a real good source of well taken Nikon 1 V2 pics? In particular with the F1.8 and F1.2 primes...

    thanks in advance.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Yes, but while I don't particularly like that, there are 128GB Micro-SD cards available, and 64GB cards cost next to nothing. If the RAW files are 20MB, 128GB rooms 6,400 images per card. That's 178 rolls of film in my F6. Shouldn't be a problem
    The issue isn't the SIZE of micro-SD, it's the read/write speeds....
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    The issue isn't the SIZE of micro-SD, it's the read/write speeds....
    SanDisk Extreme Pro® microSDHC™ UHS-I card has a write speed of up to 90MB/s. It's only 16GB, but the 64GB SanDisk Extreme® PLUS microSDHC™/microSDXC™ UHS-I Card has a write speed of up to 50MB/s. That's as fast as all but the latest, greatest SD and CF cards and enough for anything this side of 4K, which the V3 doesn't feature anyway.

    Next year, they'll be even faster
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 15th March 2014 at 05:04.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    As I said - the micros SD is annoying for me, but not a deal breaker.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Thanks.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    I never even looked at V1 and V3 but the V3 is getting closer. Actually, this is interesting. Need to handle it and see what's it got.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    After some research looks like I am going to have to pass on this camera. The problem is this:

    - We have the 28mm, 50mm and 85mm equivalent focal lengths. You can get those focals or almost those in m4/3rds and here is where the real problem happens - the m4/3rd lenses are pretty much as big as the Nikon 1 system ones.

    So where is the size advantage then? The zooms are a different story, but even the nice 32mm (85mm) Nikon 1 is as big or bigger than the Olympus 45mm F1.8.

    You may say "but wait, the Nikon 1 is F1.2"- sure. But the DOF equivalent is about same or similar, and both are giving you more or less the focal length plus whatever low light advantage the Nikon 1 lens would give you here, the m4/3rds sensor would just deal by doing better ISO.

    Thus to me the only real advantages of this system is for birding or sports in situations with enough light (il.e. daylight, ideally).

    Bummer.

    - Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 16th March 2014 at 16:32.
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    These are indeed among the reasons why I've stayed away, Ricardo. However, what may change the equation somewhat are:

    - If you're a Nikon user and can use Nikon AF-S lenses with AF (the 85mm f/1.8 seems to be particularly well suited, but there are others too)
    - The modularity of the V3, making it span from GM1 to at least E-M5 and partly the E-M1 (AF)
    - Unique high speed features, photo as well as video
    - The inclusion of a very compact waterproof (as opposed to water resistant) body and lens in the system

    The open question is image quality, particularly at high ISO. M4/3 has come incredibly far in that area. Also, the Panasonic video capabilities are rather unique, although they don't offer anything near 120fps in a compact body.

    I'm rathe happy with what I have at the moment, but it would be fun to try

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    These are indeed among the reasons why I've stayed away, Ricardo. However, what may change the equation somewhat are:

    - If you're a Nikon user and can use Nikon AF-S lenses with AF (the 85mm f/1.8 seems to be particularly well suited, but there are others too)
    I think that's a nice extra, but it goes to point back to sports/birding. I honestly wouldn't look forward to a smaller system because I can use big DSLR lenses on it- that defeats the purpose. One reason I haven't cared much for m4/3rds using my 4/3rd lenses.

    I do understand this is a personal want/need on that point so if someone likes that aspect, that's certainly an advantage for them.

    - The modularity of the V3, making it span from GM1 to at least E-M5 and partly the E-M1 (AF)
    I actually expect the AF to be better than the EM-1. I have seen what the Nikon 1 V1 can do, so I expect better here. I agree the size span is very attractive- one reason I am looking at this model at all.

    - Unique high speed features, photo as well as video
    That points back to sports. Though I agree those wanting video also, that's attractive. But Panasonic m4/3rds does phenomenal video. I suppose the slo mo modes are interesting for those into that.

    - The inclusion of a very compact waterproof (as opposed to water resistant) body and lens in the system
    I really don't care one bit about it, since I am specifically looking at the V3. Though I agree for those who do actual scuba diving, this is attractive.

    The open question is image quality, particularly at high ISO. M4/3 has come incredibly far in that area. Also, the Panasonic video capabilities are rather unique, although they don't offer anything near 120fps in a compact body.
    That one is easy- m4/3rds will have better IQ, period. The question here is more: " is the IQ enough for what you want/need." Given my work with the Pentax Q7, the answer for myself seems to be "it sure seems it's good enough."

    In fact, if Pentax/Ricoh released an F1.0 prime for the Q7 I think I would be set, and I wouldn't be looking. I don't have much trouble using the Q7 well in daylight. At night it becomes more trying, even then I have gotten some shots. So I am thinking a Nikon 1 giving say 1- 1.3 stops better than Q in lower light, along with a faster prime would pass the "minimum to do some nice work I consider good enough" - but it goes back to the issue I mentioned on size vs m4/3rds.

    I'm rathe happy with what I have at the moment, but it would be fun to try
    I will say I absolutely love the Ricoh GR. The only reason I am looking at this is because I am not a wide angle photographer, and while the Ricoh GR crop modes help a lot here, the most "tele" mode is a 47mm. I think I would be happy if I can touch 150mm (which Nikon 1 system is currently missing but at least it does 85mm).

    (yes I am discounting the zooms, I am talking about the primes because I want to make sure I could use it for the night).

    So what's holding me back from m4/3rds?

    EM-1 - concluded not interested, though if I found myself doing a lot of weddings I wouldn't mind picking one up. Too big for what I want. Not a super fan of the ergonomics (though better than E-3/E-5). And no leaf shutter or e-shutter (this is a key requirement for me now).

    GM1 - horrible camera to use. I really really ended up hating it.

    GX7 - this one is the big question. Why I haven't picked this up. I think it just didn't feel quite right when I did. Also I found it a bit bigger than what I want.

    Olympus EM-10- I would have picked one up if Olympus had an e-shutter option, but they don't yet.

    That also points to another problem in the Nikon 1 system... do I go for one now only to find Panasonic does the GM2 and does it right? This is why I am looking for key Nikon 1 advantages.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    My frustration in pictures (Note: I edited the lens to attach to the V3 in the CameraSize website, Nikon 1 V3 is the camera in the middle):









    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Ricardo - the IQ from the Nikon 1 is astonishingly good. I have the EPL-5 and Lumix G6 and prefer the Nikon files by far.
    This is not just an issue of pixel peeping - the image just looks really good. I think it's a combination of sensor size and quality coupled with excellent lens quality. I have the V2 and the J1 now, but started with the V1. I have most of the lenses.
    Much of the appeal to me has to do with the incredible depth of field with this system. I am traveling now and my prime cameras are the Fuji X-T1 and X-Pro1, but my V2 is with me and gets as much usage as the Fujis.
    Difficult to see how I could have got this tricky one with another camera. (J1 with 10mm prime)

    Keith

    PS I won't be running out to get the V3 at that price - I wait until Nikon puts them into deep discount.

    Last edited by woodmancy; 16th March 2014 at 21:03.
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Hi Woodmancy, thanks for pitching in.

    I examined several RAW files for the V2 model and I am not convinced the IQ is better than latest sensors like the EPL5. But I don't care about that- what I do care is if the camera size is going to effectively be what an EPL5 class camera is, because if the lenses are not smaller, then I don't know why I would pick one up.

    IT has a lot of what I want- electronic shutter, small sized camera, fast operation (it seems). I have to still pick and hold a V3 to make sure the ergonomics make sense but so far what I see looks great. And I love the articulated LCD.

    But I still can't help but wonder, why bother if the system is going to be about the same size of a m43ds one? If I was a sports photographer or a bird photographer then I see a clear win. For my street photography it's not that I don't think this camera is not capable, it's that I am not seeing what advantage it gives me over a m4/3rds with e-shutter (say a GX7 or a GM2 when that comes out if Panasonic did it right).

    - Ricardo

    PS: I would just keep using my Q7 if Pentax game me an f1.0 prime.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    For me the 1V3 is overall the smaller package compared to m43. Sure there are m43 models which are small, but then I think I would prefer the V3 handling (from what I can tell from the pictures we have seen) - but true judgement can only be made once the camera is there.

    WRT IQ and, I had the V1 and IQ from this small little camera was just astonishing. I have little doubt, the V3 will be at least the same, just with 18MP resolution, which is another issue I have with m43 - they stumble around with 16MP now since the GH2 - more than 3 sears ago! So I do not see the real progress there.

    But one of the most appealing parts of the V3 is the direct compatibility with the Nikon system, which I am in and own quite some interesting lenses, especially the 2.8/70-200 VRII which I love. Will give a 2.8/540 on the V3. Or the 80-400 VRII which I am lusting to buy - would end up in a 5.6//1080 on the V3. Which combined with the fast AF and AF tracking is wonderful for wildlife. And now with 18MP this almost means heaven

    And if you compare the sizes, well then the V3 wins - not by much but at least minimum size is there!

    Still need to hold it in hands and see how it feels, before I finally decide ...

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Just trying out the Nikon 1 V1 with 10mm prime =28mm eguivalent yesterday.
    Robert

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    For me the 1V3 is overall the smaller package compared to m43. Sure there are m43 models which are small, but then I think I would prefer the V3 handling (from what I can tell from the pictures we have seen) - but true judgement can only be made once the camera is there.
    I agree overall counting the zooms in, it will be smaller, but since the zooms to me are slow, and I rather shoot primes that are faster, I am focusing on those key focal lengths. Still I agree I am doing a particular setup for me, so I can see someone doing day sports or birding can see a clear win with the system with the zooms.

    I also agree the handling looks more promising. I ended up hating the GM1 for this, and I am sure this one will handle better (because it's really impossible to do it that bad :-) ).

    WRT IQ and, I had the V1 and IQ from this small little camera was just astonishing. I have little doubt, the V3 will be at least the same, just with 18MP resolution, which is another issue I have with m43 - they stumble around with 16MP now since the GH2 - more than 3 sears ago! So I do not see the real progress there.
    Eh, 16 MP to 18 MP is nothing. IT's virtually the same resolution, and the quality of the pixels will be better in m4/3rds so 16 MP m4/3rds sensor will still outdo this one.

    That shouldn't read I think this one will do bad or is bad.

    But one of the most appealing parts of the V3 is the direct compatibility with the Nikon system, which I am in and own quite some interesting lenses, especially the 2.8/70-200 VRII which I love. Will give a 2.8/540 on the V3. Or the 80-400 VRII which I am lusting to buy - would end up in a 5.6//1080 on the V3. Which combined with the fast AF and AF tracking is wonderful for wildlife. And now with 18MP this almost means heaven
    Yes, if you want to use the camera lenses, agreed. I have no interest in that since to me that defeats the purpose of the small system, but I can see people who want a lot of telephoto and have the DSLR Nikon lenses go for that.

    And if you compare the sizes, well then the V3 wins - not by much but at least minimum size is there!

    Still need to hold it in hands and see how it feels, before I finally decide ...
    The last sentence I completely agree with. There's only so much we can go by fantasy and holding a camera may give a certain feel or epiphany that is the final decision on liking or hating.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    So a little bird I trust a bit told me that m4/3rds does a lot of software corrections for a lot of their lenses (knew about that), but that Nikon tries to go for optical corrections, hence the Nikon 1 system is supposed to be sharper corner to corner. I can see that to some extent in the F1.2 lens, not sure about the others.

    I am having mixed feelings still, but I may just pre-order and test to get it out of the way and know whether this is it or not. If it works, I keep and sell most of everything else I have.

    - Ricardo

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    So a little bird I trust a bit told me that m4/3rds does a lot of software corrections for a lot of their lenses (knew about that), but that Nikon tries to go for optical corrections, hence the Nikon 1 system is supposed to be sharper corner to corner. I can see that to some extent in the F1.2 lens, not sure about the others.

    I am having mixed feelings still, but I may just pre-order and test to get it out of the way and know whether this is it or not. If it works, I keep and sell most of everything else I have.

    - Ricardo
    That's interesting. There are a few m4/3 lenses that, as far as I know, are not corrected in software, like the 75mm f/1.8 and I believe one or all of the Leica lenses. Interestingly, those are all among my favourites (I only own one of them though). One that is heavily corrected is the Panasonic 7-14mm, and while it's a good lens, it does lose resolution towards the edges.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Well.... ouch!



    I know Dxo is not going to be the end all be all of a camera as a whole, but when you are charging $1,200 USD, you expect close to best in its class....

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    The Sony is a p&s, the Nikons are system cameras. Yes, the V3 is expensive, but it's also in a totally different class altogether.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well.... ouch!



    I know Dxo is not going to be the end all be all of a camera as a whole, but when you are charging $1,200 USD, you expect close to best in its class....

    - Ricardo
    Today, best in class means a Sony sensor.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The Sony is a p&s, the Nikons are system cameras. Yes, the V3 is expensive, but it's also in a totally different class altogether.
    Well, a P&S sensor is beating a very expensive system's camera.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Looking at the individual measurements on the graph, the Nikon 1 V3 starts to pull ahead of the G16/CoolPix 7800 starting ISO 400. So it will look better on average, than the raw scores at first would suggest.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    A lot more to a camera then what DXo says or what is written on paper.
    The Nikon 1 prime lenses are a good better then the zoom and it handles more like a camera then the little Sony.
    IMHO
    Robert

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    The low sports ISOs of these cameras limit their use for indoor sports. That was my experience with the V1.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well, a P&S sensor is beating a very expensive system's camera.

    - Ricardo
    The very expensive system camera can mount an f/1.2 portrait lens. That is 4 stops faster than the Sony at the equivalent focal length. When the V3 is at ISO 400, the Sony will be at ISO 6400.

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The very expensive system camera can mount an f/1.2 portrait lens. That is 4 stops faster than the Sony at the equivalent focal length. When the V3 is at ISO 400, the Sony will be at ISO 6400.
    But the Sony DR still doesn't change. There will be situations where the Sony IQ will pull ahead in spite of the lens saddled with.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Nikon 1 V3

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    But the Sony DR still doesn't change. There will be situations where the Sony IQ will pull ahead in spite of the lens saddled with.

    - Ricardo
    Yes, the Sony DR will change... dramatically. At ISO 6400, according to DxO, DR is just 7 on the Sony while it's 10 on the V3 at ISO 400

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