C1 v Lightroom

[Steen]

Sounds like it's time for me to buy NX2 and learn to use it...

Nikon Capture NX2 is now a waste of money as it will soon be discontinued.

The successor, Nikon Capture NX-D, will be free (so far) and will be released the 15th of July 2014:

Nikon | News | Nikon will release the official version of Capture NX-D, its new RAW image processing and adjustment software application, for free download beginning July 15, 2014


Nikon Capture NX-D beta version 0.9.2 is already available for test and feedback purposes here:

Nikon | Capture NX-D | Beta version download for free

 

[dogstarnyc]

the NX example above was done in NX-D beta..

Steve

 

[Jack]

OK here are two jpegs one developed in NX and one LR.

Just to show what I did to get them very close...

The LR jpeg was created from the file imported and converted to DNG, shot in camera neutral.
jpeg quality was 89% sharpened on export for screen 600px on the shorter edge.

The NX jpeg was created from the original .NEF file in NX-D Beta same thing 89% quality, 600px on the shorter edge.

What I did to the LR file to get it this close was:
Add +.95 to the exposure
Use the strong contrast curve already available under the curve graph
Use current Adobe 2012 process at the bottom of the RH pane and also select camera neutral here.

The NX software adds some sharpening, I applied none in LR and just let it produce 'sharpen for screen' on export.

It was very quick and easy to apply these and even save the adjustments as a preset to apply again or... to apply to all the shots on this shoot just right click and copy the adjustments and apply to all the others.

Here's my issue -- I immediately see reddish bias on the skin in your LR conversion, and then while subtle, a sallow yellow tinge to the skin shadows. I *hate* those in skin, and C1 and NX don't do that.

 

[Jack]

I wonder what IQ aspects of LR that is putting you off?

Marc, sorry for the late reply. The basics of my dissatisfaction are color integrity then detail in that order. (I also hate album mentality as opposed to sessions, but there appears to be a workaround.) I could live with the slight detail hit as in most cases we have so much available in our files now that the slight loss goes un-noticed for web or even large print. But color is one of my nits; especially skin when I shoot people and greens when I shoot landscape. Unfortunately my past experience with LR is it doesn't do either particularly well -- skin tends red with Nikon and Phase files, and yellow-tallow with Canon files, and greens go muddy gray brown. Not sure about Sony files, but suspect they tend red on skin like N files do. In the old days, I built a special profile using the color checker for my Leica and Canon digital to LR work -- it helped, but was far from perfect. And C1 even though clugy to use back then was way superior.

At present, I'm thinking I'll at least try NXD. I can manage with C1, but would prefer better stability when I do large batches. For now, turning off graphics acceleration has mitigated most of my stability issues from C1 -- and I do like the session type workflow.

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

Guys, do not go with Capture NX.

Just use View NX It is sufficient.

 

[Paul2660]

Steen:

Thanks for the links especially the NX-D. I am assuming this version does not have the control point technology that Nikon licensed from Nik?

Paul

 

[Steen]

You are right, Paul, the new Capture NX-D does not have the control point technology that Nikon licensed from Nik and used in NX2 - until Nik was bought by Google.

 

[dogstarnyc]

Just looked at this on an iPad and realised I had made an error.

I had LR set up to change the colour profile to sRGB when outputting web sized jpegs. I hadn't checked in NX-D and it hasn't both files are different on a tablet/smart phone.

Jack,

I didn't use any custom profile in LR and my monitor although not a mega posh one, is a higher end Dell (the ones used at Conde Nast NYC), regularly calibrated and not dry old.

Anyway I'll replace them later with both having the same profile.

S

 

[dogstarnyc]

Ok so here are the same two files, only this time with the NX-D's profile changed to sRGB.

Note to Jack,

I didn't develop the RAW's to my particular style, just to demonstrate that it's not rocket science (well it might be) for us to tweak LR to the crisper, brighter RAW that comes out of NX-D.

Myself and many others had to 'get rid' of the magenta and yellow undercurrents in Nikon's raws... particularly with skin tones. I think many of us coming from PhaseOne or Hasselblad files thought 'YUK' when the first raws came up on our screens.

It's easy to fix, a combination of not using canned profiles, tweaking the camera calibration sliders at the foot of the RH pane in develop mode and even playing around (very slightly) with the toning sliders.


Steve

 

[dogstarnyc]

So I then took the file and played with the calibration sliders a tad and in 30 secs managed to make the whole thing look so awful ...!
However here is the same file with a slightly less red/yellow look. Tweaked in LR.

Steve

 

[Jack]

Steve,

Your last two iterations are superior to your first, and indeed much closer to NX. However I still see a hint of bias, though I am on my laptop -- I'll withhold final judgement till I see them on my Eizo.

 

[archiM44]

Jack
I happened to look at this thread and am surprised at the number of users having stability problems with C17.
My late 2009 iMac running OSX 10.8.5 with 8GB and a SSD Drive as startup has no problems whatsoever.
My image files are all on the HD in a folder structure and my applications, LR5 catalog, and Capture One session are on the SSD along with Library, system and users.
Import images as referenced into the LR catalog and do the first selection etc there.
I have only one Capture One session which I use for all images.
The alias for C1 is in the dock.
I just drag the RAW image I want to process in C1 to the alias in the dock, and it opens in C1 along with the rest of the images in that folder. I then set that folder as the export folder, process the files and export as TIFFs or whatever.
Back in LR all I have to do is synchronize the folder and the Tiffs are in my LR catalog.
I gave up on Media Pro (that did cause instability) and on the C1 catalog as well as on multiple sessions.(shoots are clearly defined in my folder structure on the HD}

 

[TRSmith]

I admit to being absent from this forum for a bit. When I returned today I was quite surprised to find this thread in which many of C1's long-time supporters and believers have reached a point of frustration that has prompted either a consideration of a move to LR or an outright transition.

My own requirements are modest, thus allowing me to maintain my love affair with C1's rendering even in the face of its quirkiness. I have the latest versions of both C1 and LR but haven't opened LR for months, primarily out of habit.

I used to try and convince myself that I would use C1 to process my winners into .tiffs and then use LR's catalog to keep track of all those "winners". But the reality is very different and I think I'm just too lazy to do that. My guess is that I've become so comfortable with the initial processing in C1 that I don't want to do the work necessary to adapt to LR.

However, C1 is without doubt the quirkiest, most frustrating, and least intuitive software I have ever encountered. As a professional graphic designer with national accounts for the past 15 years, I've used a lot of software and make my living with it. Since photography is really a hobby for me, the almost obsessive stance that Phase One has taken with their approach in the software (which seems to me like "we know what's best and you WILL do it the way we say") has sponsored some extremely frustrating times over the years that I've been a customer.

Yet I still use it. But now Jack is thinking of jumping to LR? Wow. That's a major event. Like the proverbial Canary in a coal mine, Phase One should take notice. I certainly have.

Best,
Tim

 

[danielmoore]

Are there any other Windows users running Capture One 7 on Windows ?

And if so, what are your experiences with this ?

I go back and forth, sometimes even hourly while working, between Apple and Win OS based machines and I can say I've had no end to the headaches on the Apple machines and pretty much always smooth sailing on the Win end with regards to C1.

I've really come to depend on the stability of running C1 under Windows.

Jack, if you have the inclination, perhaps add a Win 7 based machine (Win 8.1 can be made to operate in a less 'tablet-like' way in a pinch). Switching inputs on the monitor is trivial.

For my volume, transferring files isn't a pain. USB3 across the board takes the sting out of it.

It's a little decadent, but it really gets the job done the way I prefer.

 

[GrahamWelland]

A little surprised by this thread. C1 Pro runs like a dream on my current spec Mac machines - I'm not using catalogues and keep current re. versions. The current C1 hasn't crashed on me as of yet.

I have to say though that I've always found Capture NX2 to be the best renderer as regards native colour from all of my Nikon cameras.

 

[Jack]

A FWIW update. After installing the latest version, 7.2.3 a few weeks ago, things have improved massively. I am back to being a mostly happy camper with C1. I do need to give it some more time though as I have not done any large batch sets yet.

 

[dogstarnyc]

Well done for persevering Jack.
A quick side note, files from my D810 look more neutral from the get go. It's early days and LR needs a work around with the beta DNG converter. But signs are good.

I'm shooting with flash and natural light with it this week and will post results at the weekend.

S

 

[proenca]

Life is funny.

I read Jack's initial thread and thought to myself "heck, I want the best quality. I use LR, why I never tried C1 ? Well, REALLY tried C1?". He and Guy Mancuso are really into the C1 PRO.

So I downloaded a trial C1 PRO. Bought a new camera ( D800e ) and LR is so-so with its files. So I started fiddling with C1.

I saw "the light" : Jack was right. I understand Guy. This is REALLY different.

However ( I'm on a Mac, not a last gen but a good one ) I never had any crash. Not a single one.

I do miss LR simplicity. I do miss LR way to index, select and tag things. C1 is clumsy.

Funny enough, mid trial C1 PRO launched a campagin 50% off - price was decent, bought it.

Oh man, the interface on this thing sucks. Its dreadfull. The way to catalog & index files and sort them out is pretty much non existant. Its slower. Easy integration with plugins, silver efex or autopano giga ? nope, there isnt any.

But the files.. oh man, the files. They are just gorgeous. Very different.

I went back to LR and try to process the same file and getting them closer. Just couldnt - and please note that I'm using Lightroom since v3. So I'm quite lightroom-savvy.

C1 just have less mimmicks and its less slider friendly - but it delivers.

Since I bought the D800E I was unhappy with the greens on LR. C1 works it out.

The clarity and sharpness are trully fantastic with C1.

Thank you Jack & Guy for "forcing" me to learn ( or its a ongoing process ) C1.

LR served me well with my Leica's ( M8, M9, S2 ) and old Nikon's ( d1x, d2h, d2x ).

But D800e should come with a C1 PRO trial at the very least.

Oh and I'm happy that things improved massively in C1 latest interation

 

[Godfrey]

...
I am happy with LR as my DAM approach using external folders
...

I'm curious as to what you mean with that sentence. What distinguishes a folder as being "external"?

G