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Nikon D810 Service advisory
- Thread starter Guy Mancuso
- Start date
Okay. I took a pair of 2 minute exposures into the lenscap. I take the second one and open it in Capture NX-D, it appears totally black corner to corner. If I then crank the exposure slider up the full +5 stops, I just barely detect a slightly lighter gray -- call it 8/8/8 to 10/10/10/10 gray on the 0-255 scale. Now if I increase gamma massively to +2.0(!) I get say approximately an 80/80/80 gray. I see this as a problem in obscure minutia for my uses as I *never* process anything like that. I thus am reluctant to even bother shipping the body in because all else works so well. Thoughts?
The two state character is from their own pulldown menu
Here is an example of the white dots. Iso 320 as I remember, 1' 40". This is from a shot taken at midnight, blue is from moon illumination. Dots clearly show.
Nikon US has agree that "these" are the dots they are referring to.
They will never be in the same locations, from one shoot to another, however during a single night, they stay in pretty much the same place, but over time become even more numerous. They are not distant stars or other natural light, as if stars they would be trailed just like the "real" stars.
This is from a brand new D810, however my D800e does the exact same thing.
Paul
Nikon US has agree that "these" are the dots they are referring to.
They will never be in the same locations, from one shoot to another, however during a single night, they stay in pretty much the same place, but over time become even more numerous. They are not distant stars or other natural light, as if stars they would be trailed just like the "real" stars.
This is from a brand new D810, however my D800e does the exact same thing.
Paul
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Hi Jack,
And what of the first exposure? Does it produce identical results?
With such extreme post-processing you're really exceeding the performance limits of the system.
What do you get when processing that same raw image in a couple of other programs?
- Leigh
Those are star trails.
They're all the same length, moving in the same direction, and of varying intensity.
Any amateur astronomer would recognize them.
I showed that shot to my wife, a very accomplished and experienced astronomer, and she identified them instantly.
You can find numerous night shots right here on GetDPI that show exactly the same features.
If they're real sensor artifacts they will appear in the test shots using the lens cap.
If you find no such artifacts in the lenscap shots, they're star trails.
Sensor pixel problems are at single locations, not dragged across the sensor as seen in your example.
- Leigh
Leigh, I fully understand what star trails are, read the article I wrote on the front page, I have been doing this for a while.
In the previous post I mentioned the solid lines are star trails. I even noted that in my post. The long lines are stars that created trails at 1 minute and 44". The single white dots are NOT. Please look again, zoom in, zoom in again. I can't believe you can't see single white dots. There are hundreds. Make sure you click on the attachment, if it's not loading at a 100% view, my fault. But when I look at the post, I can click on the image and it's large enough to clearly see the white dots.
I am stunned you feel I don't understand what 'star trials" are.
At a loss on this one. Not sure what you are seeing, but Nikon saw it, they saw the dots, they asked for the raw, they agreed, Yes there are white dots and these are what they are trying to address.
The dots don't trail. They stay static over two hours.
Look at the attachment again, I just did. They dots which are about the size of 1 pixel, are clearly there.
Paul
In the previous post I mentioned the solid lines are star trails. I even noted that in my post. The long lines are stars that created trails at 1 minute and 44". The single white dots are NOT. Please look again, zoom in, zoom in again. I can't believe you can't see single white dots. There are hundreds. Make sure you click on the attachment, if it's not loading at a 100% view, my fault. But when I look at the post, I can click on the image and it's large enough to clearly see the white dots.
I am stunned you feel I don't understand what 'star trials" are.
At a loss on this one. Not sure what you are seeing, but Nikon saw it, they saw the dots, they asked for the raw, they agreed, Yes there are white dots and these are what they are trying to address.
The dots don't trail. They stay static over two hours.
Look at the attachment again, I just did. They dots which are about the size of 1 pixel, are clearly there.
Paul
Hi Paul,
One of the main problems of the web is that the experience level of its members spans an almost infinite range.
I've found it best to assume nothing, and let others provide the missing information.
This results in far fewer mis-understandings than assuming expert level proficiency on the part of every poster, and being wrong 99% of the time.
Yes, the single dots are there. When I first viewed the image they were too small to be noticed.
I opened the image in a graphics program and the dots are quite apparent when I enlarge it.
Apologies for not understanding the focus of your concern.
However, my criticism of your assertion that a night sky is "black" is absolutely valid, and remains so.
- Leigh
Leigh
No problem at all. I was getting frustrated and sorry for tone. Sometimes the web text etc can't get the meaning across.
This issue is only a problem for me as I stack, and stacking creates gaps, either my me or just the intervals and the final images look better gap less. When I use "Startracer" software to move the images, via Ptgu, the dots then become thousands of dotted lines, that will ruin the image.
The LR noise reduction at high settings gets it out but it destroys the rest of the image as too much blur is done. Capture One single pixel does a very good job, but many times I seem to prefer the LR output for night work.
As the camera works into the night the dots will start to number into the thousands and it's really impossible to manually take them out. I have tried to get Nikon to address this issue for over year on the D800e, but they never did. However based on a link in the post, later model d800e's don't have the issue, so it was fixed under the covers in later cameras. Sad that the 800 family can't have the same fix done.
Paul
No problem at all. I was getting frustrated and sorry for tone. Sometimes the web text etc can't get the meaning across.
This issue is only a problem for me as I stack, and stacking creates gaps, either my me or just the intervals and the final images look better gap less. When I use "Startracer" software to move the images, via Ptgu, the dots then become thousands of dotted lines, that will ruin the image.
The LR noise reduction at high settings gets it out but it destroys the rest of the image as too much blur is done. Capture One single pixel does a very good job, but many times I seem to prefer the LR output for night work.
As the camera works into the night the dots will start to number into the thousands and it's really impossible to manually take them out. I have tried to get Nikon to address this issue for over year on the D800e, but they never did. However based on a link in the post, later model d800e's don't have the issue, so it was fixed under the covers in later cameras. Sad that the 800 family can't have the same fix done.
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thanks. I can understand how the issue could be quite prominent under some circumstances.
All of my wire's astro work has been and still is with film rather than digital, so I have no basis for comparison.
This is unfortunately a problem with sensors of all types.
When the desired signal is so small as to be the same order of magnitude as the noise, there's a problem which is very difficult to cure.
Hope Nikon can resolve it to your satisfaction. Good shooting.
- Leigh
Thanks. I can understand how the issue could be quite prominent under some circumstances.
All of my wire's astro work has been and still is with film rather than digital, so I have no basis for comparison.
This is unfortunately a problem with sensors of all types.
When the desired signal is so small as to be the same order of magnitude as the noise, there's a problem which is very difficult to cure.
Hope Nikon can resolve it to your satisfaction. Good shooting.
- Leigh
1st exposure is virtually identical to 2nd, maybe a touch less gray overall.
Performance limits -- exactly.
Software -- I only have Capture NX-D for the D810 files at the moment.
Here are some pics full frame downsized to 1200 px with some added comments following:
Base exposure processed out zeroed:
Plus 5 stops exposure:
Plus 5 stops and plus 2 gamma:
First comment: If I zoom in to 200% and examine process 1 closely, I see nothing untoward, not even noise at single pixel level. If I zoom to 200% on process 2, I do see evidence of single pixel noise, but they are not white dots, they process out of NX-D as dull to brighter green, but it is combined with presence of excessive noise in general, like ISO 3200 stuff. If I zoom in on process 3, then the single pixel noise does indeed appear as a mixture of gray and white dots, but then noise is so high, like for ISO 25K, I would expect nothing less.
Next comment: CaptureOne has a very excellent single-pixel noise removal option. In fact, this is such a common problem in MF capture, I have it set on as default for ALL of my processing specifically because it attacks and kills hot pixels -- I am thinking it is likely the reason why I never noticed the issue with my D800 or D800E. I am hopeful that it will work with the D810 as well, but obviously 1) I don't have a very severe problem to begin with and 2) we won't know for certain until the a C1 release comes out that will accomodate the D810 files.
So in conclusion, my "end of day" decision for me is I am NOT sending my unit in at this point in time.
Thanks very much for the follow-up, Jack.
Yes, I expect this is hitting the noise limit of the sensors.
In reality, these are "energy" sensors as opposed to "light" sensors.
They respond to temperature and other environmental conditions as well as photons in most cases.
- Leigh
Yes, I expect this is hitting the noise limit of the sensors.
In reality, these are "energy" sensors as opposed to "light" sensors.
They respond to temperature and other environmental conditions as well as photons in most cases.
- Leigh
jlancasterd
Active member
Sent my D810 in yesterday using the prepaid label downloaded from the Nikon UK website. Got the acknowledgement of receipt this afternoon with an 'approximate repair completion date' of 4 September.
Looks like I'll be relying on my 800E for the next couple of weeks.
Looks like I'll be relying on my 800E for the next couple of weeks.
Hopefully no longer, as the actual fix take about 10 to 15 minutes to apply. I noticed that with mine, they are giving UPS the full 7 days to deliver it even though it's in LA now. It will just sit in the UPS warehouse for 2 more days. Glad kept the 800e, as this "repair" will be taking about 2.5 weeks total, all in slow ground transport. I should have just paid to have it go 2nd day air.
Paul
Paul
jlancasterd
Active member
Have just been advised that my D810 is due to arrive back, by courier, sometime tomorrow. That will be exactly a week since I posted it.
brtangcsco
New member
The postage is prepaid, ground in the U.S.
jlancasterd
Active member
And in UK - you have to log on to the Nikon website and negotiate your way to the part where you can download and print out a pre-paid address label and a recorded delivery slip for endorsement at the Post Office. It seems to be as quick as 1st class mail - my 810 got to the service centre in around 24 hours, arriving there last Friday. They obviously dealt with it on Tuesday this week, the day after the late August Bank Holiday, and despatched it yesterdayThe postage is prepaid, ground in the U.S.
I received my D810 back today, and just finished a 20 minute test, with 2 minute 10" segments, iso 160.
Results were very impressive. There are still occasional white dots, but now they number in 10 to 20 instead of 2000 to 3000.
I can see no reduction in image quality, basing this on my first series taken before the fix.
The LCD view on the D810 is a bit of a fooler, in that often I see breakups in blues when viewing at 100%, however when you open the raw file there are no problems.
If you work with long exposures with this camera I feel the fix is worth the hassle.
Paul
Results were very impressive. There are still occasional white dots, but now they number in 10 to 20 instead of 2000 to 3000.
I can see no reduction in image quality, basing this on my first series taken before the fix.
The LCD view on the D810 is a bit of a fooler, in that often I see breakups in blues when viewing at 100%, however when you open the raw file there are no problems.
If you work with long exposures with this camera I feel the fix is worth the hassle.
Paul