The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Otus 85mm, everything is wrong

Stan ROX

Member
I just sold my Zeiss 135 ZF.2.
For the same reason I would never go with the Otus. Lack of AF.

The images that are in focus are wonderful. But the rate of mishits (in my genre, due to a moving model for example) is just to high.

If you ask Zeiss why they don't do AF, they say that todays cameras do not focus exact enough to achieve the critical focus that is needed.

I just coming back from a trip to Vienna, where I did some outdoor fashion with the 70-200 2.8 VRII - almost every image is spot on with my trusty D800E.

I really don't get it why they just design their lenses with AF and let the user decide what is best for the moment.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Found out myself.
medium-format system 1 shot with Leica APO-MACRO-SUMMARIT-S 120mm f/2.5;
medium-format system 2 shot with Hasselblad HC Macro f/4 120mm II.
Thanks for finding out.

RE: MFD-1: It should be noted that the ISO-80 for the MFD S shot is a "pulled" ISO which is not optimal for contrast. The native base ISO of the S2 is 160, and the base ISO for the S(006) is 100.

RE: MFD-2: What we do not know is which H camera back was used with the 120/4-II. I suspect it was a crop frame 40 meg back, not a 50 or 60 with a larger sensor area and subsequent different rendering characteristic in terms of DOF.

- Marc
 

turtle

New member
Technically, its a wonderful achievement.

Photographically, it is unlikely to represent a forward step for the vast majority of photographers.

Huge cost, huge size, no AF and largely meaningless improvements in IQ in the context of its probable application = no interest from me.

If there is one area where technical perfection should be encouraged to fly out the window, it is portraits. Give me a tool that helps me get the shot of the person I see. The rest doesn't matter.

Afghan Heroin: Not For Export

Afghanistan: Russians and Royals

I'm sure the 85 and 55mm Otus lenses have some perfect applications, but for most people they are likley to be a backward step.
 
M

mjr

Guest
Gents

I'm going to respectfully disagree! I think from image samples I've seen, the image improvements wide open are extremely meaningful, it's a stunning portrait lens and whilst it may not appeal to everyone, I've never read about a lens that does!

I love 85mm for all sorts of things, I shoot a large number of landscapes at 135mm with the f2 and it is literally amazing, not just the sharpness although that is a given, it's the image as a whole, the contrast, smoothness of transitions, it's all beautiful. The 85 I see as just a slightly wider view. My favourite portraits with the 135 are wide open and then portraits are beautifully soft away from the eyes which just jump at you.

Sure it will be difficult to get right 100% of the time but that's the challenge of photography for me, pulling it all together at the right moment.

I've been saving for a Leica S for a while and can afford a simple kit but have the 85mm and 55mm arriving next week and I'm going to trial both against the S2 I have access to here, I can buy both and a D810 for less than the price of the Leica body, if they work well for what I shoot then I'm ditching the S plans and sticking with the Nikons.

I appreciate that we all have different requirements but I shoot the 135 commercially and it just makes me concentrate more, it's all good!

Mat
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Technically, its a wonderful achievement.

Photographically, it is unlikely to represent a forward step for the vast majority of photographers.

Huge cost, huge size, no AF and largely meaningless improvements in IQ in the context of its probable application = no interest from me.

If there is one area where technical perfection should be encouraged to fly out the window, it is portraits. Give me a tool that helps me get the shot of the person I see. The rest doesn't matter.

Afghan Heroin: Not For Export

Afghanistan: Russians and Royals

I'm sure the 85 and 55mm Otus lenses have some perfect applications, but for most people they are likley to be a backward step.
Now, this is an interesting discussion, and I'm not even sure if I dare touch it, if I have the knowledge and if I'm worthy. I've been searching for the perfect portrait lens for a couple of decades or thereabouts. Not the technically perfect lens, which the Zeiss may be, but the lens that renders a portrait the way I want to see it. Unfortunately, every time I get close to finding that lens, it's a lens for a format that is impractical to carry around. I have a feeling that this is what Zeiss is trying to achieve; a lens that can be used for perfect portraits with the small format that 35mm is.

The closest I have come is the 180mm f/3.2 for GX680. Last night, I found a strap for that camera (I already have the lens and the camera), making the package a bit more portable. It's still a heavy load to carry, but much cheaper than the alternatives (the Zeiss 110mm f/2 and possibly the new Leica 100mm f/2.... or the Otus).

So I understand those who go for the Otus. It's probably as perfect as it gets, but even then, I don't know if it's perfect for me. At this price, it's luckily not something I need to consider :)
 
M

mjr

Guest
You're as equally worthy as anyone else Jorgen!

I think it's good to strive for things you want, there's so much amazing choice out there. I look less and less at equipment nowadays and have sold such a lot as I learn what suits me, my style, if I can claim to have one, and my pocket. I look at lenses like these as a goal to work towards, I'm sure it's the same for Leica owners or Phase and Hasselblad owners, it's the desire to push yourself and work hard to get what you want. In the big scheme of things, these are all just tools to either enjoy or make money from, there will always be alternatives both cheaper and more expensive, you pay your money and make your choice.

Have you tried the 135 f2 for portraits? The focal length is really good and it's really superb, also not bank-robbingly expensive!

Mat
 

turtle

New member
Nobody is wrong here and its all down to personal preferences.

Some might think me mad for paying for the Leica Monochrom, but this is where I felt nuances mattered to me. I can see why the Otus 85 would fulfil that role for others.

Personally, I find my Canon 85mm f1.2 L II does all I could ask from a portrait lens and the two links I provided above take you to images shot on that lens with film. If I want very sharp, modern and perfect (albeit without the speed), I have a 75mm Summarit to go on the A7R, or a 70mm Sigma Macro f 2.8 for the Canon. At 85mm and f1.4, not much is in focus anyway, so the need for blistering performance across the frame would seem to be limited (for me and my application).

What I would say is that the Otus 85 seems more of a studio lens to me, with willing models. Its not that you cannot use a MF lens in the field - of course you can - but you will be seriously compromised when it comes to 'quick moments' versus an AF lens. I had seconds to get some of my best portraits and would have failed miserably with MF, but maybe that's shoddy technique LOL
 

woodyspedden

New member
Zeiss views their competition for the OTUS lenses as the Leica S,Hasselblad and Phase . Last year they showed comparisons to medium format using a Nikon D800E body at PhotoPlus in NYC .

I own the OTUS 55 and can compare it first hand to the Nikkors,Leica M,R and S alternatives . Its not hard to pick out the OTUS files and they are as good as any up to the S where the MF CCD sensor and the Leica S lenses are better .

Its unfortunate that the Zeiss design called for a no constraints on size and weight . Leica did a pretty fantastic job on the 50 APO which is a world class lens yet small and light weight .
and the Leica 50 cron costs $2500 more than the OTUS! Price is relative. You gotta get what you feel you need.

Woody
 
Last edited:

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Have you tried the 135 f2 for portraits? The focal length is really good and it's really superb, also not bank-robbingly expensive!

Mat
No, I haven't, at least not extensively, and I know I should. I actually like the 135-150mm focal lengths for portraits, and use the Zuiko 75mm f/1.8 for m4/3 a lot. That lens is absolutely stellar, and great for work and travel, but it lacks "personality", whatever that is.

I do have the 105mm f/1.8 AIS also, and find it very good, but I struggle with manual focus with DSLR viewfinders. I consider buying another D700 and optimising it for manual focusing with a third party focusing screen (or simply buy a Canon 6D :shocked: ).

The Zeizz CY 85mm f/1.4, which I have too, is also good, and really compact. I'm tempted to buy an A7s to use that on... see where this is leading? This forum is very, very unhealthy :ROTFL:
 
Last edited:

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
and the Leica 50 cron costs $400 more than the OTUS! Price is relative. You gotta get what you feel you need.

Woody
I don't know why you drag such a pesky, cheap lens into the discussion. Those dentists with their rustic German cameras can afford the APO Cron for sure, and it's only twice as expensive as the cheapskate Otus :poke: :ROTFL:
 

Ocean

Senior Subscriber Member
I have been using D810 lately. I find that the focus accuracy is much improved (for Otus 55 and Zeiss 135/2 APO) compared with the D800/Df. I don't if I just got lucky with my copy of the D810, or Nikon had made some real improvements. I am seriously think about getting the Otus 85.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Coming from the D800e when I was in Jerome with Bob he had his 810 with him. It is a nice improvement . I was not happy with my D800e. Maybe why I switched to Sony.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I have been using D810 lately. I find that the focus accuracy is much improved (for Otus 55 and Zeiss 135/2 APO) compared with the D800/Df. I don't if I just got lucky with my copy of the D810, or Nikon had made some real improvements. I am seriously think about getting the Otus 85.
This is interesting news. What would that be? A better focusing screen?
 

Ocean

Senior Subscriber Member
I found the in-focus indicate is pretty accurate on my D810 which made focus on large aperture lenses easier. I had a lot of problems with my D800 for MF lenses and I nearly give up the Nikon system all together. But D810 made a huge difference for me. Additionally, the AF accuracy on D810 is also improved and I felt it's now very reliable.
 
Last edited:

iiiNelson

Well-known member
No, I haven't, at least not extensively, and I know I should. I actually like the 135-150mm focal lengths for portraits, and use the Zuiko 75mm f/1.8 for m4/3 a lot. That lens is absolutely stellar, and great for work and travel, but it lacks "personality", whatever that is.

I do have the 105mm f/1.8 AIS also, and find it very good, but I struggle with manual focus with DSLR viewfinders. I consider buying another D700 and optimising it for manual focusing with a third party focusing screen (or simply buy a Canon 6D :shocked: ).

The Zeizz CY 85mm f/1.4, which I have too, is also good, and really compact. I'm tempted to buy an A7s to use that on... see where this is leading? This forum is very, very unhealthy :ROTFL:
I actually bought a Zeiss C/Y 85/1.4 to use on my A7 and A7r... I also bought a 100/2... and a 135/2.8... and a 180/2.8. Yes this forum is expensively free.
 

UHDR

New member
i feel this is more a statement product to Zeiss. every now and then big firms like zeiss need to take on projects that show they are more than just a brand name with historical value. Also internally, companies like Zeiss can benefit from this kind of project. during the development, there are many trial and error involved, and sometimes the team will discover new things that may not necesscay go directly into Otus this time round, but may be ways to cut cost for their lower end products, or benefit future products.

i feel otus like the R8 to audi, or LFA to lexus, or the Statement S1 to Naim.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

My feeling is that Zeiss wanted to show what is possible with advanced design. They actually choose to use a design type (inverted telephoto) that is normally used for wide angles.

The major benefits of both designs seems to be very good performance with essentially no colour fringing at maximum aperture.

I have read somewhere that the lens was more like a technology demonstrator, but it seems it sells very well.

I agree that the competition from Sigma Art is worth waiting for.

Personally, I have some interest in the new Loxia line of lenses from Zeiss, they are based on the ZM-series (Leica mount) but modified for the Sony E-series cover glass. It will be interesting how they perform on present and future Sony sensors, not least regarding cross talk issues.

Best regards
Erik


Seriously Sigma will come out with a Art 85 and even today Nikon, Canon, Sony Zeiss and the ZE and ZF.2 lenses are all very good lenses. I would personally be very hard pressed to buy it considering my bet the Sigma 85 Art coming in the future at maybe 1200 will be outstanding given there 35 and 50 today. I'll wait it out
 

Biglou

New member
I received mine two days ago.
To summarize, yes, it is very sharp but not " dry " and with fantastic rendering of space and volumes.
Even fully opened not a hint of haze, haloes, diffused light or reflects, never seen so perfect before (i could sometimes even miss some haloes around lights giving atmosphere, will have to try filters for some night shots)
Rendering, color and out of focus parts of image are wonderful.
Fully opened the part in focus is very narrow, so clear and precise you need to adjust the distance very exactly, much more than with forgiving lenses like the summilux 80mm.
The only problem in fact is that there are no cameras on the market ready for such a lens, with adequate sensor but also ease of use.
Nikon's viewfinder does not allow precise focusing and A7R has also its inconvenients, you must set the distance at working diaphragm, in some cases vibrations but overall a better solution if you don't use a tripod.
 
M

mjr

Guest
It would be great to see some shots if you get chance Biglou, congrats on picking one up.

Mat
 
Top