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Thread: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    After watching a video on the new 7DMkII, I really wonder whether Nikon needs a revamp of the management, design and marketing team. ie get out and listen to your customers!

    Points to ponder:
    1.The new 7DmkII offers 10 FPS with a buffer of 33 frames.
    At 20mp a shot that is no snitch, even if it is DX.
    The Nikon D7100 is a dud compared to this, and the buffer of the new D750 is seriously crippled for action shots.
    2. The thing which surprised me most is the 7Dii offers interchangeable focussing screens for photos using manual focus lenses….. …. why could the Nikon Df not have a similar arrangement?
    3. Canon offers all this at $1790.-

    Other Canon products which spring to mind are the AF of the D1x, which is very impressive, their excellent 24-70mm f2.8 and the 200-400mm zoom with built in 1.4x converter.

    How do others feel about the Nikon line up….?

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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    2. The thing which surprised me most is the 7Dii offers interchangeable focussing screens for photos using manual focus lenses….. …. why could the Nikon Df not have a similar arrangement?
    I've never shot Canon but I believe many of their DSLRs offer interchangeable focusing screens. Nikon's continued refusal to countenance such an obviously beneficial option has been, and remains a source of irritating mystification to me. I'm looking closely at the Sony A7s as a vehicle for my Cosina made M lenses. If MF is more pleasant and effective through the Sony EVF then what's to stop me buying an F mount adapter for my AI-s lenses? I don't think Nikon can afford to be quite so complacent in this matter when they're no longer the only game in town.
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    2. The thing which surprised me most is the 7Dii offers interchangeable focussing screens for photos using manual focus lenses….. …. why could the Nikon Df not have a similar arrangement?
    The interchangeable focusing screen is a big deal for many photographers, and many complained when it disappeared with the 7D and 5D III. The fact that it's re-introduced in the 7D II (and the 6D) is very good news. Nikon's policy here is very difficult to understand, particularly with the Df.

    This is even weirder when considering the fact that Nikon still have several manual focus lenses in production, while Canon haven't had that since 1987.

    I've condidered a switch many times, but Nikon's (in my view) superior ergonomics plus the lovely F6 have kept me. Now I'm tempted again
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Here's another competitor for Nikon's lack of action cameras, the Samsung NX1:

    Samsung NX1 First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

    I started reading rather hesitantly. I mean, nobody used a Samsung camera unless it's built into a smart phone, right? Wrong. They appear to be number 2 in the mirrorless market, and this camera has so impressive specs that if it can take pictures as well, it must be a winner. It comes with a 16-50mm f/2.0-2.8 zoom....
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I've condidered a switch many times, but Nikon's (in my view) superior ergonomics plus the lovely F6 have kept me. Now I'm tempted again
    The supreme irony here of course is that Nikon will give you all the focusing screens you can eat for the F6.
    Re; Samsung NX1. 28MP on aps-c. It's getting pretty crowded!
    Last edited by Steve P.; 16th September 2014 at 11:23.

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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post
    The supreme irony here of course is that Nikon will give you all the focusing screens you can eat for the F6.
    Re; Samsung NX1. 28MP on aps-c. It's getting pretty crowded!
    The amazing thing about the Samsung isn't so much the fact that it has 28MP, but that it manages to get 15 of those 28MP images through its system every second. It will be very interesting to take that camera (and the Canon) out for a spin
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    It's funny as I look at it just the other way, just recently selling off the last of my Canon gear for the D810.

    1. 7Dmkii more likely than not has the same sensor as the 70d. Still same issues that Canon had 3 years ago. Banding and blue green noise in shadows of any image that is pushed

    2. 1.6 crop factor no good for my work and if I need it I can switch the D810 to DX mode. Not the same pixel depth but close enough.

    3. Every video shooter I know is very disappointed in no swivel screen or touch to focus as other camera have.

    4. No wifi built. But GPS I would prefer the former

    5. 10 FPS is great however for the price. The D810 with grip in DX mode is 6 I believe.


    Personally I am really liking the 750.

    Paul

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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    It's funny as I look at it just the other way, just recently selling off the last of my Canon gear for the D810.

    1. 7Dmkii more likely than not has the same sensor as the 70d. Still same issues that Canon had 3 years ago. Banding and blue green noise in shadows of any image that is pushed

    2. 1.6 crop factor no good for my work and if I need it I can switch the D810 to DX mode. Not the same pixel depth but close enough.

    3. Every video shooter I know is very disappointed in no swivel screen or touch to focus as other camera have.

    4. No wifi built. But GPS I would prefer the former

    5. 10 FPS is great however for the price. The D810 with grip in DX mode is 6 I believe.


    Personally I am really liking the 750.

    Paul
    The 7D II is an action camera, pure and simple, and for that, your list above isn't very important. AF-C and burst mode are. Apart from that, I agree. There are many good reasons why I stay with Nikon still.

    The real threat comes from Sony, Panasonic and now Samsung. Cameras have become a part of the electronics industry and those three companies are some of the biggest players, with R&D and marketing budgets to match. The most interesting cameras are now coming from these three suppliers with Fujifilm and Olympus chasing.
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    I think Canon has fallen so far behind the true innovators that they're just hanging on for dear life. That video is pure speculation by a Canon fanboy... and I personally won't put much credibility in his comments until we see DXO Mark's evaluation of the Canon sensor with respect to high iso output, dynamic range etc.

    There's a lot of talk on different fora that this is just a slightly modified 70D sensor. If that's the case... the only thing the Canon will have going for it is an improved buffer and more frames per second.

    Much as interchangeable focus screens are a blessing for someone who uses all manual focus lenses... most who buy this camera will not be using such lenses so it's of little consequence to them. It's still behind the Sony A77II w/respect to frames per second... and I'm betting the Sony and Nikon eats it for lunch in the dynamic range area.

    The Samsung NX1 Jorgen mentions above could be the real game changer IF the images are clean at low iso and the sensor is even close to the Nikon's at 1200 iso. With no AA filter this could be a dream come true for the Hummingbirds I photograph.

    Nothing would make me happier than to see a revolutionary Canon apsc release as I could use all of my Leica R glass without having to change the bayonets on every lens as I have to do with my Sony A77 (version 1). The Nikon D7100 has better IQ than the Sony w/respect to high iso and dynamic range so unless the Canon is significantly better than the Nikon, which is nearly two years old, I see no reason to consider the Canon as a replacement for my A77 or DMR. And since I've removed the translucent mirror which is reported to absorb 1/3 stop of light... I see no reason to upgrade to the A77II, which DXO rates at only 1/3-1/4 stop improved high iso over the A77.

    The Leica DMR still out-performs any of the above at low iso. I've done the tests and still shoot with the DMR daily. It kills the Sony for color and micro detail at anything below 800 iso. (Hummingbird image shot with DMR attached).

    I'm betting the next Nikon apsc camera will clean everyone's clock... as Nikon seems to have ways to pull magic out of any sensor they use.
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The amazing thing about the Samsung isn't so much the fact that it has 28MP, but that it manages to get 15 of those 28MP images through its system every second. It will be very interesting to take that camera (and the Canon) out for a spin
    I see Samsung have just announced a 300mm f2.8 lens….. this camera could indeed by a game changer for many.

    I've invested in too much Nikon glass to change - just hope they get their act together and stop crippling their mid-range cameras.
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by apocolibri View Post
    That video is pure speculation by a Canon fanboy...
    Last I check Matt was using a D800E/D810 with Otus lenses……

    My point is that Nikon keeps crippling their mid-range cameras,
    e.g. the appalling small buffer and slow FPS in the D7000/D7100 series, as well as in the new D750.

    Even the old D700 attained 8FPS for a decent burst….. ideal for sports, wildlife etc. something their new range, barring the D4S are not suited to.

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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    After a quick rummage in the spare parts bin, if Nikon would only give me that D4/DF sensor in a D750 style body, with a separate AF-ON button and a decent MF screen option I swear I'd never look at another model, no matter how curvy or seductive she might be.
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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    And to add to the mix, Fuji are displaying their new 140-400mm zoom at Photokina.

    It's becoming a bit tight for the traditionalist dSLR crowd.

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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    And Fuji is supposed to give the X-t1 a full electronic shutter in December. Not sure what the frame rate will be however. Both the 140-400 and 50-140 f2.8 look impressive.

    Paul
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    Re: Is Canon more innovative than Nikon

    Quote Originally Posted by apocolibri View Post
    I think Canon has fallen so far behind the true innovators that they're just hanging on for dear life. That video is pure speculation by a Canon fanboy... and I personally won't put much credibility in his comments until we see DXO Mark's evaluation of the Canon sensor with respect to high iso output, dynamic range etc.

    There's a lot of talk on different fora that this is just a slightly modified 70D sensor. If that's the case... the only thing the Canon will have going for it is an improved buffer and more frames per second.

    Much as interchangeable focus screens are a blessing for someone who uses all manual focus lenses... most who buy this camera will not be using such lenses so it's of little consequence to them. It's still behind the Sony A77II w/respect to frames per second... and I'm betting the Sony and Nikon eats it for lunch in the dynamic range area.

    The Samsung NX1 Jorgen mentions above could be the real game changer IF the images are clean at low iso and the sensor is even close to the Nikon's at 1200 iso. With no AA filter this could be a dream come true for the Hummingbirds I photograph.

    Nothing would make me happier than to see a revolutionary Canon apsc release as I could use all of my Leica R glass without having to change the bayonets on every lens as I have to do with my Sony A77 (version 1). The Nikon D7100 has better IQ than the Sony w/respect to high iso and dynamic range so unless the Canon is significantly better than the Nikon, which is nearly two years old, I see no reason to consider the Canon as a replacement for my A77 or DMR. And since I've removed the translucent mirror which is reported to absorb 1/3 stop of light... I see no reason to upgrade to the A77II, which DXO rates at only 1/3-1/4 stop improved high iso over the A77.

    The Leica DMR still out-performs any of the above at low iso. I've done the tests and still shoot with the DMR daily. It kills the Sony for color and micro detail at anything below 800 iso. (Hummingbird image shot with DMR attached).

    I'm betting the next Nikon apsc camera will clean everyone's clock... as Nikon seems to have ways to pull magic out of any sensor they use.

    That's a hell of a shot!!! Congratulations!
    What's your keeper rate? TIA.
    Mine is pretty low with manual focus.
    Here is a lucky shot.



    Sony NEX-7 + Leica APO-Telyt-R 280/4
    With best regards, K-H.
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