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Thread: Which body...

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    Which body...

    Simple question for the Nikon users out there.

    When I finally looked at a Df in the flesh, I was underwhelmed. Too many knobs, dials, switches, buttons ... glitz. I'm more interested in a Nikon D750 body, which seems to have simpler and more sensible control layout.

    My basic question is this:

    I have these lenses ...
    Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S
    Nikkor 28mm f/2 AI
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AI-S
    Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 PreAI
    Nikkor-H 85mm f/1.8
    Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AI-S
    ... that I like a lot. I use them with the Nikon F or Sony A7 at present.

    Would they work well on the D750? ...on the Df? Which body would suit them better? Would the Nikon D body do better with them than the Sony A7?

    Because that would be my entire motivation to buy a Nikon body, to use these lenses to best advantage.

    Thanks for your insights!

    G

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Which body...

    If you use any other current body than the Df, lenses that are older than Ai will have to be modified. Ai lenses can be used without limitations and the camera will register focal length and aperture in EXIF if you have entered the lens into the camera's database.

    Ken Rockwell of all people has an excellent overview. I just love the nerds now and then

    Nikon Lens Compatibility

    Apart from that, the D750 is apparently the camera to have if you don't need ultra-low ISO, 1/8000s, a deep buffer or 35MP.

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Which body would suit them better? Would the Nikon D body do better with them than the Sony A7?
    Yes, if you choose the Df. It is in a class of its own. If I have to buy a new Nikon camera, that is the only one I would consider.

    A minor point: just like your A7, the Df would allow metering with your Nikon F lenses and in "auto" (no stopped down metering like in the A7). Not sure about the D750, etc.
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    Re: Which body...

    When I picked up a Df in my hands I was shocked how light and flimsy it felt and how thick the body was. I was expecting something like a digital FM because of their marketing campaign.

    Have you considered a Fuji X-T1 with Nikon adapter? I love mine. I am not a fan of screen controls. I like knobs.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Yes, if you choose the Df. It is in a class of its own. If I have to buy a new Nikon camera, that is the only one I would consider.

    A minor point: just like your A7, the Df would allow metering with your Nikon F lenses and in "auto" (no stopped down metering like in the A7). Not sure about the D750, etc.
    Ai and AiS lenses meter as any AF or AF-S lens on current Nikon bodies from D7000 and up. That also goes for older bodies like the D200, D300 etc. See KR's overview. It's very informative.
    The biggest difference is that they won't autofocus (obviously) and that aperture is adjusted on the lens. Metering is not stop-down.

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Ai and AiS lenses meter as any AF or AF-S lens on current Nikon bodies from D7000 and up. That also goes for older bodies like the D200, D300 etc. See KR's overview. It's very informative.
    The biggest difference is that they won't autofocus (obviously) and that aperture is adjusted on the lens.
    There is a slight possibility that I may know a bit better?

    Not all metering modes are available. Nikon's much touted matrix, 3D/color matrix and such metering modes are only available with lenses that have the appropriate chips. To make use of all the metering modes, the safe bet is to buy the latest Nikon lenses. The same goes for effective iTTL flash use.

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    Re: Which body...

    I'm the Luddite here I guess -- I like the feel of the Df. FWIW, I don't find the knobs and dials even getting in the way of anything, sort of a set it and forget it scenario for me. And then for the lenses you mentioned, they will look perfect mounted on it YMMV
    Jack
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    Re: Which body...

    Godfrey, a simple biased answer from me:

    The Df...why, because I bought it and put it to the test in a harsh environment recently. Not flimsy as some say. And to me, a sensible control layout.

    Don't take my word for it..I must be biased.

    Take care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Simple question for the Nikon users out there.

    When I finally looked at a Df in the flesh, I was underwhelmed. Too many knobs, dials, switches, buttons ... glitz. I'm more interested in a Nikon D750 body, which seems to have simpler and more sensible control layout.

    My basic question is this:

    I have these lenses ...
    Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S
    Nikkor 28mm f/2 AI
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AI-S
    Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 PreAI
    Nikkor-H 85mm f/1.8
    Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AI-S
    ... that I like a lot. I use them with the Nikon F or Sony A7 at present.

    Would they work well on the D750? ...on the Df? Which body would suit them better? Would the Nikon D body do better with them than the Sony A7?

    Because that would be my entire motivation to buy a Nikon body, to use these lenses to best advantage.

    Thanks for your insights!

    G

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There is a slight possibility that I may know a bit better?

    Not all metering modes are available. Nikon's much touted matrix, 3D/color matrix and such metering modes are only available with lenses that have the appropriate chips. To make use of all the metering modes, the safe bet is to buy the latest Nikon lenses. The same goes for effective iTTL flash use.
    This is a quote from Nikon's home page, the D810 specs:
    "Matrix: 3D color matrix metering III (type G, E and D lenses); color matrix metering III (other CPU lenses); color matrix metering available with non-CPU lenses if user provides lens data"

    This is a quote from Nikon's home page, the D750 specs:
    "Matrix: 3D color matrix metering III (type G, E and D lenses); color matrix metering III (other CPU lenses); color matrix metering available with non-CPU lenses if user provides lens data"

    Here is a quote from the user manual of the F6:
    "With AI Nikkor lens, Color Matrix Metering can be used when the focal length and maximum aperture are set by “specifying lens data".

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I'm the Luddite here I guess -- I like the feel of the Df. FWIW, I don't find the knobs and dials even getting in the way of anything, sort of a set it and forget it scenario for me. And then for the lenses you mentioned, they will look perfect mounted on it YMMV
    Me too. I like the Df a lot. Unfortunately not within reach for me at the moment.
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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is a quote from Nikon's home page, the D810 specs:
    "Matrix: 3D color matrix metering III (type G, E and D lenses); color matrix metering III (other CPU lenses); color matrix metering available with non-CPU lenses if user provides lens data"

    This is a quote from Nikon's home page, the D750 specs:
    "Matrix: 3D color matrix metering III (type G, E and D lenses); color matrix metering III (other CPU lenses); color matrix metering available with non-CPU lenses if user provides lens data"

    Here is a quote from the user manual of the F6:
    "With AI Nikkor lens, Color Matrix Metering can be used when the focal length and maximum aperture are set by “specifying lens data".

    Looks like Nikon have relaxed the crippling on the D750 to some extent. Still, what I said about the metering/iTTL is true. Not all the modes can be availed of.

    The Df holds the edge over the D750 just in terms of DR. Absolutely awesome camera and as Jack pointed out, the old AI/AiS lenses look great on it.

    Recently, I met "Mr.Nikon" from Norway.

    Bjørn Rørslett by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    He was asking me if I could do a dedicated FF UV camera for him. He would prefer at least 24MP but I was strongly suggesting that 16MP Df. There are very many reasons for it. The main one being the ease of use of manual focus lenses (though he has most of his lenses "chipped").

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Which body...

    I should have added that the D750 at 24MP is compelling over the 16MP of the Df for sure --- but as of yet, I have not been limited with the 16MP of the Df.

    What's interesting, is I now find myself grabbing the D810 most of the time, and then the Df when I'm feeling a little nostalgic -- or can I say "Luddidic?"

    Jack
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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: Which body...

    Just bought a D750 this morning. The DF didn't feel good in my hand as the grip is quite shallow. The option to have nice video, tilting LCD, better grip and 24mp sensor swayed me.

    But it is an apples to apples comparison in my opinion as I think you'd do great with either Nikon.

    We'll have to take some shots with my AIS lenses and let you know.

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    Re: Which body...

    The Df is a super camera! For me it was always too expensive and I think it still is for what you get in the end of the day, but this is something subjective.

    I like the size of the D750 and especially also the tilting screen, only thing I would change here would be give it the OVF of the D810, which is by far one of the best. Also IMHO the 24MP are still just the sweet spot for FF while 16MP are definitely outdated.

    I do not see any reason Nikon (Sony) could not design a FF 24MP sensor with the same look as the 16MP sensor of the Df and I actually believe that the next incarnation of their today 16MP lineup (D4, Df) will have something around 24MP. That technology is available for sure today and we have to just wait till they feel ready to release their D5

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    Re: Which body...

    Thanks.

    I was going to be near the camera shop on my day's errands so I stopped in; I'd stuffed my Nikkor 50/1.2 AI-S in the bag. Lucky me: the Nikon Rep was there showing off all the latest Nikon gear. I got to play with the Df and D750 quite a bit, had a nice chat with the rep.

    AI series lenses work fine, no problem at all, on both. The Df has the movable tab so that Pre-AI lenses can work on it without modification as well. For the D750, I'd have to have my Micro-Nikkor 55mm and Nikkor-H 85mm converted to AI.

    Between the two, I much prefer the control layout, feel, and balance of the D750. The Df goes overboard with too darn many knobs, dials, buttons, switches, etc. It's better looking in black than chrome, but it is a weird, messy hodge-podge of styling elements and control paradigms to my eye and fingers. The D750 is simpler, modern, clean and feels better in the hand. It reminds me to some degree of the Olympus E-1, which I account as one of the most ergonomic, finest SLR body designs of all time.

    Neither of them, however, appeal to me all that much. As I told the rep, I shot with Nikon gear from '68 to '01, but what I used from '81 on were the FM, FM2n, FE2, and F3. All the later pro and semi-pro bodies gave me a headache until the D200 came out, when they started to improve again. The D750 is a fine camera, but it's not something I want to spend my money on.

    I suspect I'll hang onto a couple of the lenses for occasional use with the F and the A7, sell the rest, and stick with using my Leica R lenses on the A7 rather than invest in a Nikon DSLR body.

    One thing the Rep had that did surprise me was the Nikon 1 V3. He had it on the counter fitted with the 10-30mm lens, grip and EVF, and he had the long zoom for it there too. A delightful little piece: felt tight, well made, controls all in the right places, lovely EVF, fast focusing, etc. I was quite taken with it.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Which body...

    Please don't mention the V3 while my wallet is around. It gives him depressions. This thread should be clearly marked NSFW - Not Suitable For Wallets
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    Re: Which body...

    I don't have a dog in this fight having just purchased a D810. However, a good friend of mine purchased a Df ostensibly for his daughter who is a wedding photographer. She said the AF was "wonky" and returned it to him. He is using it today with manual lenses and takes it with him everywhere. That D4S sensor is pretty amazing.

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    .... He is using it today with manual lenses and takes it with him everywhere. That is D4S sensor is pretty amazing.
    Yup- this is what has me interested in the Df. As a second, take anywhere body. I have to convince myself that it beats using my XT-1 with an adapter, but the D4S sensor is enticing. I just wish Nikon would drop that price a touch.

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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Thanks.

    I was going to be near the camera shop on my day's errands so I stopped in; I'd stuffed my Nikkor 50/1.2 AI-S in the bag. Lucky me: the Nikon Rep was there showing off all the latest Nikon gear. I got to play with the Df and D750 quite a bit, had a nice chat with the rep.

    AI series lenses work fine, no problem at all, on both. The Df has the movable tab so that Pre-AI lenses can work on it without modification as well. For the D750, I'd have to have my Micro-Nikkor 55mm and Nikkor-H 85mm converted to AI.

    Between the two, I much prefer the control layout, feel, and balance of the D750. The Df goes overboard with too darn many knobs, dials, buttons, switches, etc. It's better looking in black than chrome, but it is a weird, messy hodge-podge of styling elements and control paradigms to my eye and fingers. The D750 is simpler, modern, clean and feels better in the hand. It reminds me to some degree of the Olympus E-1, which I account as one of the most ergonomic, finest SLR body designs of all time.

    Neither of them, however, appeal to me all that much. As I told the rep, I shot with Nikon gear from '68 to '01, but what I used from '81 on were the FM, FM2n, FE2, and F3. All the later pro and semi-pro bodies gave me a headache until the D200 came out, when they started to improve again. The D750 is a fine camera, but it's not something I want to spend my money on.

    I suspect I'll hang onto a couple of the lenses for occasional use with the F and the A7, sell the rest, and stick with using my Leica R lenses on the A7 rather than invest in a Nikon DSLR body.

    One thing the Rep had that did surprise me was the Nikon 1 V3. He had it on the counter fitted with the 10-30mm lens, grip and EVF, and he had the long zoom for it there too. A delightful little piece: felt tight, well made, controls all in the right places, lovely EVF, fast focusing, etc. I was quite taken with it.

    G
    I don't know if it'll affect the way you shoot but some people are reporting light leak issues on the D750. Nikon D750 Users Report Internal Reflection Problems Causing a Dark Band Problem - The Phoblographer
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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I don't know if it'll affect the way you shoot but some people are reporting light leak issues on the D750. Nikon D750 Users Report Internal Reflection Problems Causing a Dark Band Problem - The Phoblographer
    Saw that earlier today. Seems to affect a small percentage of cameras. Unfortunate, but hey, no machine ever made has ever been 100% fault free. It's par for the course.

    I'm not buying either Df or D750 at this time. I decided to stick with my Leica R lenses on A7, Nikkor lenses on A7 and Nikon F. Keeping it simple.

    G

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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Which body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Simple question for the Nikon users out there.

    When I finally looked at a Df in the flesh, I was underwhelmed. Too many knobs, dials, switches, buttons ... glitz. I'm more interested in a Nikon D750 body, which seems to have simpler and more sensible control layout.

    My basic question is this:

    I have these lenses ...
    Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S
    Nikkor 28mm f/2 AI
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AI-S
    Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 PreAI
    Nikkor-H 85mm f/1.8
    Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AI-S
    ... that I like a lot. I use them with the Nikon F or Sony A7 at present.

    Would they work well on the D750? ...on the Df? Which body would suit them better? Would the Nikon D body do better with them than the Sony A7?

    Because that would be my entire motivation to buy a Nikon body, to use these lenses to best advantage.

    Thanks for your insights!

    G
    I felt the same way once I got it, but after monkeying around with it, I have gotten used to it, the camera is pretty cool and that sensor, man o man, that is why you want it. I sold my D800e , I am not focus stacking every wretched image etc. obviously you dont have to do that but man it shows up the defects in lenses


    Matto

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    Re: Which body...

    Oh... your list of lenses. The only one I have of those is the 28mm f/2.0 and it's stellar on the D810, at least my copy is, so it should work equally well on the other Nikon FX bodies as well. The 50mm f/1.2 seems like a no-brainer and the Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 likewise.
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    Re: Which body...

    All I can say to the Df nay sayers is that you need to shoot it for a period of time. The more I use mine the more I appreciate it's features and capabilities. You can customize the settings so that the controls are no more onerous than a D810/D750 etc.

    These days I only own two Nikon bodies - Df and F6. I guess that puts me in the luddite category. My best Nikon high resolution body these days is ... my Sony A7r/A7s/A7ii with an adapter.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Which body...

    Bjorn got the 105dc on one of his black Df's

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