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Thread: D3/D300 illustrated

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    D3/D300 illustrated

    Lets join the efforts and take a look at some real life shots with the new Nikon cameras. Let me start with some D300 shots - it's the one I have

    "Hagia Sophia" (in Greek language, and "Ayasofya" in Turkish) is a former patriarchal basilica, later a mosque, now a museum, in Istanbul, Turkey. It's the most impressing building I have ever seen.

    D300, 1/640 sec., f/8, ISO 200, 12 bit RAW, w. Zeiss ZF 1.4/50mm, Capture NX

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    And here are three 100 %

    lower left / center
    right
    Last edited by Steen; 22nd January 2008 at 07:39.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Interior of Ayasofya. This time with a Nikkor 18-70mm autofocus zoom. This is a kit lens, right

    D300, 1/2 sec., f/7,1, ISO 200, 12 bit RAW, w. Nikkor 18-70mm at 18mm, Capture NX w. levels & curves + 20 % UnSharp Mask

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    And here are three 100 %

    upper left
    center
    lower right

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    My wife and I just returned from a 9 days travel in Turkey together with some very good friends. We couldn't get a direct flight from Copenhagen to Milas airport in Bodrum so we had to go via Istanbul. This gave us the oportunity to spend one and a half day in Istanbul and the rest of the time in Yalikavak near Bodrum.

    Istanbul is Vieris and Odyocus territory. It would have been nice to meet you guys there. I am sure you have much better images from Istanbul, still I will show you some of my shots with the D300 from our trip. I will also upload some of them to a webpage in full resolution so that you can get a 100 % peep of some full res D300 shots. You can see the above first two ones in their entirety http://bondo.be/D300/index.html. I'll put up some more later on.

    If any of you are curious to play with a couple of the RAW files (.NEF), just send me an email through this forum about the relevant image numbers. Only please don't re-post the images (crops or entirety) anywhere else than this GetDPI Forum. Lets keep them within the forum or they will soon be floating around all over and getting completely out of control, even being used for hostile proofs of all weird kinds as we have experienced from some less gentle fora.

  6. #6
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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Bondo...it seems the zeiss with the D300 is a great marriage.... Are you happy with it ? Do you have the zeiss 28 or 25 to use with it as well....Iam dreaming of that lens for the D300 I have the zeiss 35 with the D300 and Iam getting sharper pictures the more I shoot with it, and for my skill level thats satisfying. The color from the camera files is very rich as well don't you think,,,,As a beginner I should've started with a less advanced camera but it's just not my stubborn way....and oh yes that building is marvellous....keep posting pictures from Istanbul as it is a place I can't wait to visit in the near future. I have read enough "omar pamouk [I don't think I spelled that right} to be fascinated and drawn to it from afar. ciao , patrick

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Patrick, I think it's a very, very nice camera, really. If you are a beginner with passion and ambitions for the hobby, you couldn't have made a better choice, I think.
    So far I only have the two first ZF lenses that were released during the summer 2006, the 1.4/50mm and the 1.4/85mm. As far as I have heard and read the very best ones are the 2/35mm, 2/50mm Macro, and the 2/100mm Macro, while I haven't really heard anything yet about the new 2/28mm, it will be very interesting to read and see some more about that one. Still it would be pretty close to your 2/35mm. Be careful with the 2.8/25, some say it is for some weird reason deliberately optimized for the "cropped" APS-C sensor, not being very well performing in the outer third of the image circle, i.e. with a 24x36mm sensor in your next camera in five years.
    Kit Laughlin would be the right person to tell you more about this. He has all of them I think, well that is except the two ones that I have - which are not considered the best ones as far as I know; yes, they are fast but actually much better stopped down a couple of stops than wide open.
    If you are looking for something really wide I would suggest you take a look at the new Nikkor 2.8/14-24mm zoom. It is said to be a completely fantastic performer within the whole zoom range (which is of course also a very short range) and even wide open. It would make a perfect complement to your ZF 35mm which is also said to be very, very good. Also you should not underestimate the value of having an autofocus lens. Inside "Hagia Sophia" / "Ayasofya" I wasn't allowed to use neither flash nor tripod. So I simply put the camera on the floor and let the self-timer shutter-release + autofocus take care of the rest. Very handy in such a situation. But the Nikkor 2.8/14-24mm zoom is a huge lump of glass, 970 g.

  8. #8
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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    bondo.....great and helpful advice thank you. Yes I have been feeling the pull towards the autofocus zoom but I have been waiting to sense which one of the "big" nikkor lenses it will be...I think I have been intimidated by the size of them so far. But then I remember when I finally bought a "big ***" truck for my business after years of buying smaller ones and I was nervous about it the first couple of weeks and now it's just a vehicle...not big or small. Then again the zeiss 35 is not petite by any means.....ok when I complete my next project the nikkor dx zoom 17-55 f/2.8 is the one that interests me...any word on that???? thanks ciao patrick
    by the way the mural work inside the "mosque" {museum, etc.} is very rich....has to be seen in person I'm sure...

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    I hope some of you will join the party and show us some samples of your D3 and D300 images from the real life ?

    Now a couple of hats from one of the many shoppingstreets in Istanbul.

    D300, 1/250 sec., f/5.6, ISO 200, 12 bit RAW, w. Zeiss ZF 1.4/50mm, Capture NX w. levels & curves + 20 % UnSharp Mask

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    And a couple of 100 %

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Sultan Ahmet Mosque (built 1609 - 1616).
    Here I chose to keep the deep shadows from the strong spotlights and not apply D-lighting which would also lighten the entire sky in the dark night causing a weird color and lots of noise.

    D300, 1.3 sec., f/5.6, ISO 200, 12 bit RAW, w. Zeiss ZF 1.4/50mm, Capture NX w. levels & curves + 10 % UnSharp Mask

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    A 100 % detail

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Interior of Sultan Ahmet Mosque

    D300, 1/2 sec., f/8, ISO 200, 12 bit RAW, w. Nikkor 18-70mm at 18mm, Capture NX w. levels & curves + 20 % UnSharp Mask

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Some 100 % details (you can also see a full size version on the website mentioned in post # 5)

    upper left
    lower left
    lower right

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    That Nikkor 18-70 is a damn fine lens for the money, considering it's an inexpensive kit lens. (Being designed for reduced-frame sensors makes it much less expensive to produce than it would be otherwise.) I used to use one with my D70, and was amazed at the image quality.

    I've since replaced it with the Nikkor 18-200 VR lens (and a D200) for the extra zoom and the vibration reduction, and it's more or less the same quality, though considerably more expensive (you pay more for the 200 mm reach and VR).

    Lisa

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Yes, that kit lens keeps surprising me all the time, Lisa. Less than 200 USD brandnew, less than 100 used. Sometimes it is hard to find proportions in prices of different gear.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Here is one more with the Nikkor 18-70mm. I wouldn't know which part of this to show you as a crop, take a look at the full res version.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    same setup, at 70mm, usually not its sharpest focal length, but it seems to work painless here

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    I think the D300 files are the best I've seen overall form all the new camera offerings. Good on Nikon!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I think the D300 files are the best I've seen overall form all the new camera offerings. Good on Nikon!
    Hey Jack

    Two days ago I would have agreed with you but having shot many D3 images in the past two days since I received it I would say the D3 files are slightly better. Both cameras need some sharpening for sure but both hold up very well with the sharpening. Still hard for me to imagine carrying the D3 on my shoulder all day (I will use it primarily for landscapes) but the D300 with the 40mm Voightlander 2.0 is small, lightweight and sweet. I am anxious to try the Zeiss 50 1.4 as well.

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Woody, it would be great if you would contribute with some of your D3 files and D300 files as well, with the different optics.
    I actually was hoping you would chime in on this, as well as Ray, Kit, Patrick and other members who have these new Nikon machines

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Give me some time this weekend and I'll post some from the D300. (some product shots and a few from the Phoenix Zoo Lights Festival - I was really impressed using the Live View feature for product work, and with the 2500 ISO for the night shots.) (Product shots were with the Zeiss 50/2.0 Macro + Nikon 105/2.8 VR Macro.) (Night shots were with the new 24-70/2.8 Nikon.)

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Great Ray, looking forward to see your files !
    Now let me show you three sample files shot with the ZF 85mm. First the man and the machine ...

    D300 w. ZF 85mm at f/8

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    and four actual pixel crops

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    now mum and child, same setup

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    couple of 100 %

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Last but not least let's take a look at what this 85mm was really meant for

    first one stopped down to f/1.4, a flower portrait

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    and the mandatory actual pixel peep of f/1.4
    not quite sure exactly where the focal plane is located

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    this is in no way scientific, it was pretty windy, just playing with the 85mm
    stopped down to f/2.8

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    and the f/2.8 actual pixels

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    Smile Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Woody

    So you got your D3? Good for you. How are you liking it compared to the D300?

    A few weeks ago Woody and I were mailing back and forth. I had sent him some D3 files, NEFs and JPGS. I think he already had a D3 on order back then.

    In case some of you haven't seen other posts I've made on other forums I have some USM suggestions for those who on opening the D3 file for the first time may say HUH?, this isn't what I was expecting.

    In general double the sharpening numbers you are used to with a D200 or D2X, cut the radius in half and us little to no threshold, maybe use 1. For example 250/.3/0 (1) works really really well at ISO 200-800. After 800 you need to watch that 250 sharpening number and back it off. But in general sharpen more and radius less. All that detail yo were expecting IS there.

    In NX I slam the sharpening slider all the way to 100 and then use about 2-3 radius and 0-1 threshold.

    At ISO 200-800 CS3 and NX files look about the same. So if you can't/won't us NX CS3/ACR is fine.

    NX is a whole other world at hi ISO though and worth the demo or money for the times you crank up the ISO.

    I had sent an ISO 12,800 jpg direct from NEF in NX to Woody. I just made a print from the same file. No way in H#&L an ISO file should ever look this good. I swear it is every bit as good as an ISO 1600 file from my D2HS. I'm not joking. And the D2HS was good.

    It takes time to get accustomed to the D3 look 'cause it isn't a FF D2X. Images are sharp and they are detailed but they pull it off in a different way with a different look.

    I need to open a gallery here and I will show some of the hi ISO snaps I have.

    Have fun Woody

    Neil

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Hey Bondo and Neils

    Thanks for the comments and I promise I'll do some posting.

    I got the D3 from Jim Lakey at Brightscreen and for those interested he may have one or two left. Unlike others he is not charging a premium. Amazon had a D3 for sale and were asking $6300 compared to the list price of $4995! Crooks!

    Anyway I am in Florida on vacation and so far have been shooting mostly test shots just to get a feel for the camera. So far I am very impressed. Having had a D2X for several years I agree with Neil that these files are not a ff D2X. The sensor must be quite different based on what I am seeing. I don't have the 14-24 or the 24-70 with me but I don have my older 17-35 and 28-70 so will take the shots with those two or the 70=200.

    Have a happy day all

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    O.K.

    Here are two shots taken on the beach last evening.

    Don't be too critical as this was hand held with the 300 4.0 and ISO 1000 just as the sun was beginning to set. As I said, these were really test shots and there is noticeable camera shake involved.

    Enjoy for what they are worth

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Bondo,

    I had the Zeiss 85/1.4 but sold it. My issue was that it was just too difficult to focus fast on the D200 or D300, although the D300 was better. You seem to do well with it.

    I also sold the Zeiss 35/2 (which was a very nice lens) in favor of using the new 24-70 Nikon. However, the Zeiss 50/1.4 and 50/2.0 Macro did stay.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Woody, they are really tack sharp, within the shallow 300mm DOF. The second 300mm one shot at 1/320 sec. according to the exif - you definitely have a more steady hand than I have.

    Ray, you are absolutely right about the 85mm MF lens being difficult to accurately focus with the D300. I took several shots at each aperture and just picked the best ones to show here. And unfortunately the D300 matte screen isn't designed to be easily interchanged by the end user. This is exactly where the coming Leica DSLR comes in. "Wide open" optimized optics plus a Manual Focus optimized viewfinder (hopefully) ? Seems nowadays to be the last chance company for that in the 35mm arena ...
    (You really sold the 2/35mm, isn't it considered one of the top two or top three ZFs ?)
    It would be very interesting if Nikon announces a new 85mm AF-S in a few days from now.

    Neil, thanks for the advice about the postprocessing, very usefull information and inspiration. So far I've been too chicken to even try to crank up the sharpening as much as you suggest. I'll try it out for sure. We (or at least: "I") need a thread about good postprocessing suggestions of these files.
    I use Nikon Capture NX. I still hope to be rescued by Lars Vinbergs "Joey" program concerning post conversion processing

    By the way, I just realized that unfortunately I loaded up the wrong files for the actual pixel crops of the above rose shots. Crops yes, but not at all 100 %. It's a bit of a pity that the "Edit" option disappears in the posts ?
    Nevertheless, I won't bother you with posting new actual pixel crops, the full res jpeg samples are temporarily uploaded to a webpage as mentioned in post # 5 if you want to peep the rose shots - anyway it's not all that important, in no way controlled examples.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Bondo

    I just now made some out of camera size prints (@9.5x14 300dpi) in NX from some ISO 200 and 400 files. I use an Epson 2200 and I printed on Luster paper for a good sharp look.

    I wanted to see in print some of my own suggestions. The prints are very sharp but smooth. It is so hard to describe smooth. Compared to what I think the same file from my D200 would look like the D3 files have loads of detail but look less "digital" or overly saturated. Bad description on my part as saturation is wildly adjustable. And what does digital look like anyway.

    I had the D3 set to Neutral, but in PP I set it to Standard as this image could use it. I had the ADL set to low. All I can say is the D3 image is different than the D200. the D200 is no dog. In the fall of '08 a parody cookbook my wife wrote and I did the photos for will be on the shelves. It is all shot with the D200 and nobody is disappointed. The book bought the D3:-)

    I printed at a few different USM settings in NX. 100/3/2, 100/5/3 and 80/3/2.

    Know what? In one shot the 80/3/2 looks better than the 100/3/1 shot and in the other the 100/5/3 shot is still very sharp but smoother in the way the 70'sish womens skin looks. But still all the differences are extremely small. But I stand by what I say about lots of USM and very little radius compared to what you would think is right. Sharpen alot and then take the edge off with radius and threshold.

    Try some prints at those settings. It's only paper and ink.

    BTW the USM setting for a 12,800 image with in camera NR set to Low (recommend that), in camera B&W conversion and in camera USM turned off was 35/2/2 in NX.

    Neil

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Bondo,

    Yes the Zeiss 35 is a very good lens, but also somewhat long in size. The other thing that really convinced me to let is go, is just how good the new 24-70/2.8 is. The D300 is a "hold me over" camera until a higher resolution D3 becomes available, it will then move into back-up mode. Considering that I want to move to full-frame and am a big fan of the 50 focal length, that is why I kept the two Zeiss 50s and sold the 35 & 85.

    My lens line-up is the 24-70/2.8 Nikon, Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss 50/2.0 Macro, 105/2.8 VR Macro Nikon, and 70-200/2.8 VR Nikon.

    The other thing that really pushed me over the edge to selling the Zeiss 35, is that I prefer to shoot the M8 in that focal length.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Here are a few with the D300 and 24-70 from yesterday.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Here are a few with the D300 and 24-70 from yesterday.
    Good Stuff Ray

    I am attaching a few images from both the D3 and the D300 so folks can see (or not see as the case may be) the differences in the imagers. I was using both the little Voightlander 40 2.0 and the great Nikon 17-35 on both cameras. As all are aware using the same lens interchangeably on both bodies is not easy due to the 1.5 crop of the D300.

    Anyway, for what it is worth here are three images from each taken on a casual beach stroll yesterday

    Enjoy

    Woody


    These first three are from the D3

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    And now here are the same three from the D300

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Woody,

    Even though these are just web size photos, I do see a difference between the two which is actually more than I expected.

    The D300 is a little overexposed compared to the D3. The D3 seems to show a little more detail and really has a nicer tonal range.

    Is this what you see, as you have both cameras to compare?

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Great samples Ray and Woody ! The D3 images have more warm and rich colors. They remind me of DMR images, e.g. look at the grass in the first view over the beach and the sea. What RAW-converters did you use ? And Woody, did you use the same settings for both D3 and D300 during conversion ?

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Great samples Ray and Woody ! The D3 images have more warm and rich colors. They remind me of DMR images, e.g. look at the grass in the first view over the beach and the sea. What RAW-converters did you use ? And Woody, did you use the same settings for both D3 and D300 during conversion ?
    Hey guys

    I agree with your comments and especially that the D3 has a warmer presentation than the D3. I am sure that you can set up the Capture NX or Lightroom or ACR to make the two look much more alike but out of camera this is what you get. I made no changes to the file in ACR other than a bit of sharpening (both cameras were modified the same amount.) I did nothing with regard to HSL so the colors were as they came out of camera. I think the D300 is a superb instrument but clearly the D3 has some advantages over the D300 which cannot be ignored. Frankly I love both and find that you simply have to learn the idiosyncracies of both to get the maximum value from either. i look forward to the D3 being my primary instrument and the D300 my backup. What wonderful choices don't you think?

    Best always

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    OK Woody, so this is basicly how ACR sees the two NEF file types. Do you see the same difference if you convert both files with NX ? Some have said that NX delivers the best colors. So far I have only used NX. I have tried to open the D300 RAW files with Capture One PRO 3.7.7, but it can't read them yet.
    Ray, did you use NX ? There are some very sparkling colors in your D300 racing team shots, of course it is also a colorfull scenery in the first place.
    rgds Steen

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Steen

    I Just reprocessed both in NX just to see and got the same color differences as I did in ACR. I suspect the color difference is more a function of the coatings on the Voightlander compared to the Nikkor. I will do some more shooting using the 28-70 on the D3 and the 17-35 on the D300. Here the colors should be more representative of the camera's performance than the lenses

    Woody
    Last edited by woodyspedden; 28th January 2008 at 06:37.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Great samples Ray and Woody ! The D3 images have more warm and rich colors. They remind me of DMR images, e.g. look at the grass in the first view over the beach and the sea. What RAW-converters did you use ? And Woody, did you use the same settings for both D3 and D300 during conversion ?
    Steen

    Couple of points.

    Yes I used the same settings for raw conversion for all images. I basically used the ACR defaults but added 20 points of local contrast, 15 points of vibrance, and added some sharpening.

    I mistakenly had the D300 set for bracketing which is why one of the images was overexposed. Bracketing is dangerous unless you always remember to disengage it. It doesn't default back to normal shooting when the bracketing sequence is finished. It just starts a new sequence.

    I will reshoot some of these images using the 28-70 Nikkor on the D3 and the 17-35 on the D300. This should eliminate the color differences evidenced when I was using the 40mm Voightlander on the D3 and the 17-35 Nikkor on the D300.

    I reprocessed the images in Capture NX and could see no substantive differences in color from that from ACR.

    Hope this helps to explain some of the things seen in these images.

    Woody

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Thanks a lot, Woody ! I already peeped into the EXIF data because I was curious to see if it partly was the glass. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Here is what I found.

    D3
    (A) Beach and sea: Voigtländer 40mm
    (B) Bucket in sand: Nikkor 17-35mm (at 35mm)
    (C) Straw on roof: Nikkor 17-35mm (at 35mm)

    D300
    (A) Beach and sea: Nikkor 17-35mm (at 35mm)
    (B) Bucket in sand: Voigtländer 40mm
    (C) Straw on roof: Voigtländer 40mm

    Image (C) is less important here since the versions are pretty similar, colorwise.
    But in both (A) and (B) D3 shows more warm and sparkling colors out of the box than D300, despite the fact the two bodies change optics between these two scenarios. Apparently not a matter of glass, so I don't think you need to reshoot the test with same brand optics on both bodies. On the other hand we would love to see more pictures from both cameras. And from all the members who have them

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Ray, I hope that at some point you will show us some actual pixel crops as well as some more out of focus rendering shots with that new 24-70/2.8 Nikkor. Looks like that lens is completely fantastic. Especially number two shows both tack sharpness and very nice OOF rendering in the background at the same time. Great picture, and very three dimensional.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Ray, I hope that at some point you will show us some actual pixel crops as well as some more out of focus rendering shots with that new 24-70/2.8 Nikkor. Looks like that lens is completely fantastic. Especially number two shows both tack sharpness and very nice OOF rendering in the background at the same time. Great picture, and very three dimensional.
    Bondo

    I have now reshot the scenes posted previously and I assure you that the issue is the look of the lenses. Using the 28-70 on the D3 and the 17-35 on the D300 proved to me that the Voigtlander lenz was responsible for the warm tones we all responded to. There was no difference of any magnitude with regard to the sensors of the D300 vs the D3. Over and out. I will be happy to post any images to prove the results

    Woody.

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    Re: D3/D300 illustrated

    Oh thanks Woody, very useful information. I'm grateful that you bothered to do this, because obviously I was wrong in my conclusion. Useful to know that these differences were in the glass and not in the sensors & processors.

    Think we need an image now to keep the headline on track

    D300, Nikkor AI-S 2.8/28mm 1/10 sec. at f/8, ISO 200, pretty much handheld

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