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Thread: Selling stuff

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Selling stuff

    I have too much gear, and as I had an unexpected and very unwelcome expense a few weeks ago, I decided to get rid of some of it. My original plan was to sell the D700 and some lenses that I don't use much. However, when selling things that aren't current these days, one has to sell a lot, even if all or most of it were the greatest gadgets on earth just a few years ago. So I turned the tables and asked myself what would bring in the most money and still have the least impact on my photography. The answer was simple:

    The Nikkor 200-500mm is almost new, it's amazingly sharp, has little or no CA or other distortions and is a popular lens which is easy to sell. The VR is amazing as well. I've taken some 5,000 photos with it during the 2 months that I've owned it. However, it's also a very "sterile" lens, with little depth and boring colours. It's a lens that really needs Photoshop for the images to come alive. Add to that the plastic build quality (it feels like a 70-300 on steroids), and it's not something that I would take to race events or other places where I bump into things and people. It served its purpose at the Singapore Airshow. The next airshow down there is in 2018. I can buy a new one then.

    The D810 is in my view the best DSLR ever made, which makes it an easy sell. My guess is that at least within a year, possibly before Photokina, there will be a D820 in a body with all the features of the D500 and then some, and obviously with an even better sensor. When that happens, the price will fall. So, I'm selling it now. It's already at the shop.

    The D700 has little commercial value now, but is still a great camera, so that's the Nikon body I'm keeping (in addition to some old DX bodies that I use for sports photography). I'll mostly use it with the Zeiss 21mm, the Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 AiS, the Nikkor 105mm f/1.8 AiS and the 180mm AF.

    Will I miss the D810? If anything, I'll miss the image quality at ISO 64, but I can live with that. Most people won't notice, and I'm back to challenging myself, with no room for cropping and more concentration before each click. I like that, and I'm very happy to have a "lighter" kit.

    Obviously, being a gearhead way beyond saving, I can't go into a camera shop with getting something back. By coincidence, the shop that is selling my gear had a lightly used E-M1 for sale for less than $500. I say "had", since they now don't have it anymore. So, I'm back to two systems again. This makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Senior Member f6cvalkyrie's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
    Perfectly !
    Congrats with your "new" E-M1.
    Don't forget that you need lenses for it ... at least the 300/4, the 40-150/2.8, and the 12-40/2.8

    CU,
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by f6cvalkyrie View Post
    Perfectly !
    Congrats with your "new" E-M1.
    Don't forget that you need lenses for it ... at least the 300/4, the 40-150/2.8, and the 12-40/2.8

    CU,
    Rafael
    Ha ha... there are dangers around every corner

    The 12-40 range is mostly covered by the 14-50mm. I'll consider a WA lens and maybe the 40-150 (or the 100-400) plus the 75mm. Apart from that, I'll try to stay away from camera shops

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    All I can say is, "Oh boy..."



    Personally, I think you'll end up regretting BOTH these sales. IMHO, the 200-500 is the tele bargain of the century, and while it is easy to replace, there is no guarantee you'll get one that is as awesome as the one you now own seems to be, at least judging from the pictures you've posted. (Remember that as we approach optical perfection, the minor optical anomalies that added character in days gone by get corrected away.) The D810 is likely the camera I won't ever part with, even with the new D900 or D1000 or whatever -- it simply renders in such a clean way that I am skeptical anything newer or higher resolution will replicate it anytime soon; yes it will have more pixels, and probably even superior noise/ISO characteristics, but I own maybe 2 lenses now that can take full advantage of D810 resolution now. And in many ways the sensor renders a look that is unique, like the D4/Df sensor does for those cams. To wit, look at the "new" Sony A7rii sensor -- IMHO not visibly superior -- and in many ways inferior -- to the A7r; and of course I find the D810 superior to the A7r even though they are essentially the same sensor.

    Of course, this is all personal preference and I fully respect that YMMV...
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    All I can say is, "Oh boy..."



    Personally, I think you'll end up regretting BOTH these sales. IMHO, the 200-500 is the tele bargain of the century, and while it is easy to replace, there is no guarantee you'll get one that is as awesome as the one you now own seems to be, at least judging from the pictures you've posted. (Remember that as we approach optical perfection, the minor optical anomalies that added character in days gone by get corrected away.) The D810 is likely the camera I won't ever part with, even with the new D900 or D1000 or whatever -- it simply renders in such a clean way that I am skeptical anything newer or higher resolution will replicate it anytime soon; yes it will have more pixels, and probably even superior noise/ISO characteristics, but I own maybe 2 lenses now that can take full advantage of D810 resolution now. And in many ways the sensor renders a look that is unique, like the D4/Df sensor does for those cams. To wit, look at the "new" Sony A7rii sensor -- IMHO not visibly superior -- and in many ways inferior -- to the A7r; and of course I find the D810 superior to the A7r even though they are essentially the same sensor.

    Of course, this is all personal preference and I fully respect that YMMV...
    Thank you for your advice, Jack. Yes, I regret the sale already, but that's life. This solved a serious problem for me. There will be a D8xx for me later this year I hope, and hopefully a 300mm PF. If the D820 isn't any good, I'm sure the D810 will become cheaper than what I sold mine for anyway
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The D810 is likely the camera I won't ever part with, even with the new D900 or D1000 or whatever -- it simply renders in such a clean way that I am skeptical anything newer or higher resolution will replicate it anytime soon; yes it will have more pixels, and probably even superior noise/ISO characteristics.
    Jack, I agree with your assessment of the D810 even though I now shoot with an a7RII. Jorgen will definitely have seller's remorse. Of all the Nikon cameras I've owned over the years, the D810 came closest to being the "sweet spot" for me. What pushed me to the Sony was neither DR, higher resolution nor noise/ISO performance but the ability to focus accurately and reliably regardless of lens selection. I'm 68+ and my aging vision finally required an EVF with magnification. Focus peaking, Live View, and a high resolution EVF with magnification have become "must haves" at this stage of my life. I was amused when your friend Lloyd Chambers came to the same conclusion (for possibly different reasons). We all get there eventually (if we're lucky).

    The mistake I made was selling my Nikon lenses. Jorgen, if personal finances allow, don't sell your lenses. Yes, Nikon may introduce newer versions with enriched plutonium glass elements that completely eliminate aberrations and distortion, but the current set of available lenses, including the 200-500mm are pretty darned good.

    For me, if Nikon were to introduce a mirrorless F-mount camera (with features similar to the Leica SL), employing the sensor from the D810, I'd jump back into the Nikon family in a heartbeat. And I'd have to re-buy all the lenses I sold when I left for Sony.

    Joe
    Last edited by Joe Colson; 31st March 2016 at 08:56. Reason: Clarified wording
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Jack, I agree with your assessment of the D810 even though I now shoot with an a7RII. Jorgen will definitely have seller's remorse. Of all the Nikon cameras I've owned over the years, the D810 came closest to being the "sweet spot" for me. What pushed me to the Sony was neither DR, higher resolution nor noise/ISO performance but the ability to focus accurately and reliably regardless of lens selection. I'm 68+ and my aging vision finally required an EVF with magnification. Focus peaking, Live View, and a high resolution EVF with magnification have become "must haves" at this stage of my life. I was amused when your friend Lloyd Chambers came to the same conclusion (for possibly different reasons). We all get there eventually (if we're lucky).

    The mistake I made was selling my Nikon lenses. Jorgen, if personal finances allow, don't sell your lenses. Yes, Nikon may introduce newer versions with enriched plutonium glass elements that completely eliminate aberrations and distortion, but the current set of available lenses, including the 200-500mm are pretty darned good.

    For me, if Nikon were to introduce a mirrorless F-mount camera (like the Leica SL), employing the sensor from the D810, I'd jump back into the Nikon family in a heartbeat. And I'd have to re-buy all the lenses I sold when I left for Sony.

    Joe
    Apart from the 200-500, I'm not selling any lenses. I'm tending towards liking older lenses more than the new ones, and most of those I have are rather old, so little commercial value anyway. I'm also keeping the D700 for now, and will use that one for some photography. The plan at the moment is to wait for the D810 replacement and decide then if I'm going to buy that camera, the D500 or another D810. Time will show.

    At the moment, I try to figure out how the Olympus works. It's a complicated camera, and as opposed to the Panasonic that I had, it doesn't resemble the Nikon layout at all. What I have found is that the old PanaLeica 14-50mm zoom is still a stellar lens, but it should be, shouldn't it? It's around the same size as the Nikkor 24-120mm in spite of having a shorter zoom range and being designed for a sensor a quarter of the size. No wonder they don't make telecentric lenses for the 35mm format

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Seller's remorse? Eh, it's all just equipment to me. I sell as freely as I buy, as long as the prices are right. I've got to get my sales stuff up and going as I have a lot of gear to get rid of now that the Leica SL has proven itself. I think you've taken the right tack, Jorgen. :-)

    Olympus E-M1: I've pretty much moved all of my photography to using the Leicas now, but I can't seem to let go of the E-M1 yet. It just works well for so many things—a very handy camera.

    G

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    Re: Selling stuff

    I recently sold all my Nikon gear for similar reasons and have been shooting with an X-T1 and A7R instead. They certainly have their merits, but I find the mirrorless cameras are more complicated and can be very frustrating to use in practice compared to the Nikon, and I definitely miss my D810. The D810 hit a sweet spot for me (and also the best 35mm dSLR to date IMHO) and I will most likely get another at some point in the future (and maybe a D810a too ). Joe makes a great point about lenses and I wish I had held on to at least the 70-200 VRII, but the sale solved a more pressing $$ problem. Such is life.
    -TC

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Jack, I agree with your assessment of the D810 even though I now shoot with an a7RII. Jorgen will definitely have seller's remorse. Of all the Nikon cameras I've owned over the years, the D810 came closest to being the "sweet spot" for me. What pushed me to the Sony was neither DR, higher resolution nor noise/ISO performance but the ability to focus accurately and reliably regardless of lens selection. I'm 68+ and my aging vision finally required an EVF with magnification. Focus peaking, Live View, and a high resolution EVF with magnification have become "must haves" at this stage of my life. I was amused when your friend Lloyd Chambers came to the same conclusion (for possibly different reasons). We all get there eventually (if we're lucky).

    The mistake I made was selling my Nikon lenses. Jorgen, if personal finances allow, don't sell your lenses. Yes, Nikon may introduce newer versions with enriched plutonium glass elements that completely eliminate aberrations and distortion, but the current set of available lenses, including the 200-500mm are pretty darned good.

    For me, if Nikon were to introduce a mirrorless F-mount camera (with features similar to the Leica SL), employing the sensor from the D810, I'd jump back into the Nikon family in a heartbeat. And I'd have to re-buy all the lenses I sold when I left for Sony.

    Joe
    I fully agree and if Nikon will bring a FF mirrorless based on the D810 sensor or some follow up, I would instantly go fully back into the Nikon ecosystem and stop looking around. Most probably even sell my loved Olympus EM1 and my even more loved Olympus Pro glass.

    Time will tell and I think we will see within the next year at least what happens

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Apart from the 200-500, I'm not selling any lenses. I'm tending towards liking older lenses more than the new ones, and most of those I have are rather old, so little commercial value anyway. I'm also keeping the D700 for now, and will use that one for some photography. The plan at the moment is to wait for the D810 replacement and decide then if I'm going to buy that camera, the D500 or another D810. Time will show.

    At the moment, I try to figure out how the Olympus works. It's a complicated camera, and as opposed to the Panasonic that I had, it doesn't resemble the Nikon layout at all. What I have found is that the old PanaLeica 14-50mm zoom is still a stellar lens, but it should be, shouldn't it? It's around the same size as the Nikkor 24-120mm in spite of having a shorter zoom range and being designed for a sensor a quarter of the size. No wonder they don't make telecentric lenses for the 35mm format
    Jorgen,

    I am sure you will come back to Nikon with a D820 or D810 sooner than later!

    Meanwhile just enjoy the EM1. It may look complicated at the first moment, but once you get accustomed to it it will soon turn out to be a very capable and flexible camera. It even can do pretty nice AFC sequences of airshows if you set it right - I proved that last summer and the results were pretty stunning - well in combination with the 2.8/40-150 Pro lens and attached 1.4 TC

    Peter

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ...At the moment, I try to figure out how the Olympus works. It's a complicated camera, and as opposed to the Panasonic that I had, it doesn't resemble the Nikon layout at all. ...
    I had experience with several Olympus cameras when I bought the E-M1 so both their manuals and the menu structure was not off-putting to me at all. Be sure you download the latest instruction manual from the website, it includes information on the latest firmware revision. I recommend two things that aid me in learning the E-M1 (and any camera really):

    • Go to the end of the book where the tables of all the menus are listed out with the default settings and read through that section of the manual first. This gives you a geographic map of where the options in the menus are relative to each other, and it briefs you on the nomenclature that Olympus uses in naming and describing the features and controls.
    • Use the PDF I created (E-M1_Settings_BLANK.pdf) to create a cheat sheet of all your favorite settings once you have worked out a configuration that you like. It saves a tremendous amount of time if you reset the camera to have a menu by menu list of your settings to reconfigure the camera with. There are over 180 settings in the menus ...! (The cheat sheet may be slightly out of date, but it has enough to be useful. An example configuration I use is here: E-M1_Settings_EXAMPLE.pdf


    G
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Jorgen....now I understand why you posted the pic with the E-M1 and 14-50 recently! The silver grill "brick wall" test photo. :-) Coincidentally, I have a new E-M1 in the mail to me, in fact it arrived in Anchorage today and should be delivered on Friday. :-)

    Good decision to keep the D700....it's a classic and I'll never sell mine.

    I have been debating with myself for almost a year whether to replace my D800e with a D810. Of the many cameras I own, the D800e is the camera I turn to most often when I absolutely want to get the best IQ with the least hassles. For me, it has been a rock solid performer. If I need to take just one camera and one lens (as I will for a photo shoot of my wife's Japanese Taiko drumming group this evening), it is the D800e and 24-120/4G ED VR lens. Still, I keep thinking about that D810. The value of a used D800/D800e has fallen so much, I probably wouldn't want to sell it, so that means ponying up another ~$3k for the 810.

    Question for all you here who had or have both...am I likely to see a noticeable improvement in IQ or usability, given that I don't shoot sports, wildlife, etc and my demands re camera performance are much less than most people here?

    Gary

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post

    Question for all you here who had or have both...am I likely to see a noticeable improvement in IQ or usability, given that I don't shoot sports, wildlife, etc and my demands re camera performance are much less than most people here?

    Gary
    The IQ differences are minimal, primarily a bit better color fidelity, a bit more DR, but to my eyes the biggest is notably better and more pleasant ISO noise. Operational differences are mainly AF speed and and AF accuracy, including manual focus lens focus confirm dot accuracy; and while AE accuracy was already excellent, it seems even better in the D810. Was it worth it? For me it absolutely turned out to be, but given the 2x delta in value over selling my used D800E I wasn't sure at the time. But then using it, I have not once missed the D800E since its departure. For me, the D810 is the most transparent camera in use I've owned to date, and my results are pretty much as good as it gets.

    My .02 only...
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The IQ differences are minimal, primarily a bit better color fidelity, a bit more DR, but to my eyes the biggest is notably better and more pleasant ISO noise. Operational differences are mainly AF speed and and AF accuracy, including manual focus lens focus confirm dot accuracy; and while AE accuracy was already excellent, it seems even better in the D810. Was it worth it? For me it absolutely turned out to be, but given the 2x delta in value over selling my used D800E I wasn't sure at the time. But then using it, I have not once missed the D800E since its departure. For me, the D810 is the most transparent camera in use I've owned to date, and my results are pretty much as good as it gets.

    My .02 only...
    Add to the above also group AF, which is what I've used most of the time and a much quieter shutter. Due to the more reliable focus dot, this is the first DSLR that I have been able to focus manual lenses reliably. I would also add the low contrast colour profile which in combination with ISO 64 and 31 gives more or less unlimited headroom for editing.
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    The more accurate manual focus confirmation "dot" is just about enough to convince me.

    Jorgen -- do you still have and use your D2xs?

    Gary

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    The more accurate manual focus confirmation "dot" is just about enough to convince me.

    Jorgen -- do you still have and use your D2xs?

    Gary
    I use the D2Xs for daytime sports events, but at the current rate, I won't wear it out within this millennium
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Jorgen....now I understand why you posted the pic with the E-M1 and 14-50 recently! The silver grill "brick wall" test photo. :-) Coincidentally, I have a new E-M1 in the mail to me, in fact it arrived in Anchorage today and should be delivered on Friday. :-)

    Good decision to keep the D700....it's a classic and I'll never sell mine.

    I have been debating with myself for almost a year whether to replace my D800e with a D810. Of the many cameras I own, the D800e is the camera I turn to most often when I absolutely want to get the best IQ with the least hassles. For me, it has been a rock solid performer. If I need to take just one camera and one lens (as I will for a photo shoot of my wife's Japanese Taiko drumming group this evening), it is the D800e and 24-120/4G ED VR lens. Still, I keep thinking about that D810. The value of a used D800/D800e has fallen so much, I probably wouldn't want to sell it, so that means ponying up another ~$3k for the 810.

    Question for all you here who had or have both...am I likely to see a noticeable improvement in IQ or usability, given that I don't shoot sports, wildlife, etc and my demands re camera performance are much less than most people here?

    Gary
    I owned both the D810 and the D800E and shot both simultaneously on several shoots. My thoughts echo what others have said. ISO noise was preferable on the D810 and the shutter is a lot quieter. AF was great too. I could be wrong and I never pixel peeped this much, but I think the D810 is a tad bit sharper as well due to the EFC. At the time I was weighing buying a new D810 or a second used D800E and I didn't regret going with the D810 at all.

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    Senior Member danielmoore's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    All this talk about upgrading to a D810 just cost me 2400.00.

    Thanks Jack and Jorgen : P.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by danielmoore View Post
    All this talk about upgrading to a D810 just cost me 2400.00.

    Thanks Jack and Jorgen : P.
    It's an investment! It goes like this: You invest and Nikon makes a profit
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    Re: Selling stuff

    There is no comparison between the Live View of my D800 (poor) and my D810 (good). I shoot on a tripod and I am a heavy Live View User so the D810 upgrade was worth while to me. The image quality of both cameras is equally outstanding.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by fotophil View Post
    There is no comparison between the Live View of my D800 (poor) and my D810 (good). I shoot on a tripod and I am a heavy Live View User so the D810 upgrade was worth while to me. The image quality of both cameras is equally outstanding.
    Then you have a good sample of the D800, as my D800E was never really sharp, I think it was because the AF system was not really adjusted optimally. Anyway I see perfect IQ from my D810, which I never saw from my D800E.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by danielmoore View Post
    All this talk about upgrading to a D810 just cost me 2400.00.

    Thanks Jack and Jorgen : P.
    So let us know if you regret it -- or not
    Jack
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    Re: Selling stuff

    My D810 impresses every time I use it - even in parallel with the newest Phase One at the Carmel Workshop in February (that's a whole other discussion).
    I'm also in the process of trimming my gear - ok, with mixed success - reducing # of F-mount lenses and replacing with modern designs.
    I'm pretty sure I will never go the MF route - cost outweighs benefits (if any?) by an order of magnitude.

    So, contrary to Jorgen, I'm selling my D700 while keeping the D810 - and yes, I'm planning to get a 200-500 this year. 85/1.4G replaced 85/1.4D, and the Sigma 35/1.4 is, well, impressive. Keeping the 180/2.8D. Not sure about the 135/2 DC - I seldom use it. 300/4 AF stays, I think.
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    Senior Member danielmoore's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    My D810 impresses every time I use it - even in parallel with the newest Phase One at the Carmel Workshop in February (that's a whole other discussion).
    I'm also in the process of trimming my gear - ok, with mixed success - reducing # of F-mount lenses and replacing with modern designs.
    I'm pretty sure I will never go the MF route - cost outweighs benefits (if any?) by an order of magnitude.

    So, contrary to Jorgen, I'm selling my D700 while keeping the D810 - and yes, I'm planning to get a 200-500 this year. 85/1.4G replaced 85/1.4D, and the Sigma 35/1.4 is, well, impressive. Keeping the 180/2.8D. Not sure about the 135/2 DC - I seldom use it. 300/4 AF stays, I think.
    It's a spellbinding tightrope act which we all walk, even if only vicariously.

    Your choices do resonate with me.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    My D810 impresses every time I use it - even in parallel with the newest Phase One at the Carmel Workshop in February (that's a whole other discussion).
    I'm also in the process of trimming my gear - ok, with mixed success - reducing # of F-mount lenses and replacing with modern designs.
    I'm pretty sure I will never go the MF route - cost outweighs benefits (if any?) by an order of magnitude.

    So, contrary to Jorgen, I'm selling my D700 while keeping the D810 - and yes, I'm planning to get a 200-500 this year. 85/1.4G replaced 85/1.4D, and the Sigma 35/1.4 is, well, impressive. Keeping the 180/2.8D. Not sure about the 135/2 DC - I seldom use it. 300/4 AF stays, I think.
    I am also staying more in Nikon ecosystem. Kind of growing out of m43 over time, but still hard to decide to sell, as it brought me lot of great results. But in the end it never can compete with FF.

    Will see what G lenses I am adding but I guess I tend more towards the 80-400 VR2 for wildlife. The 1.4/84 is kind of high on my radar screen to, not sure about the Sigma though.

    Plus looking forward to the D820 or whatever it will be called

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    One camera that I'm looking forward to with anticipation is the D500. If the low ISO quality approaches that of the D810, I might buy one and postpone any new FX format camera, just keeping the D700 for portraits and industrial photography with WA lenses. That would in turn probably lead me straight into Sigma's arms, embracing their two f/1.8 (18-35 and 50-100mm) zooms for the DX format while still using older Nikkors (80-200 AF-S, 180 AF and 300 AF) for longer focal lengths.

    If I buy the D500, m4/3 goes out, since the new Nikon is very suitable for video. I must also admit that I struggle with the ergonomics of the E-M1. The GH3 (and GH4) are much closer to what I'm used to from Nikon. A last point is the EVF. I know there are newer, better varieties available than that of the E-M1, but it's so far from competing with an OVF that there isn't really any competition. This surprised me quite a bit, since I've been living with mirrorless cameras for 5 years.

    In any case, nothing is happening overnight. No new camera body for at least 6 months
    I might buy a lens or two though

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    One camera that I'm looking forward to with anticipation is the D500. If the low ISO quality approaches that of the D810, I might buy one and postpone any new FX format camera, just keeping the D700 for portraits and industrial photography with WA lenses. That would in turn probably lead me straight into Sigma's arms, embracing their two f/1.8 (18-35 and 50-100mm) zooms for the DX format while still using older Nikkors (80-200 AF-S, 180 AF and 300 AF) for longer focal lengths.

    If I buy the D500, m4/3 goes out, since the new Nikon is very suitable for video. I must also admit that I struggle with the ergonomics of the E-M1. The GH3 (and GH4) are much closer to what I'm used to from Nikon. A last point is the EVF. I know there are newer, better varieties available than that of the E-M1, but it's so far from competing with an OVF that there isn't really any competition. This surprised me quite a bit, since I've been living with mirrorless cameras for 5 years.

    In any case, nothing is happening overnight. No new camera body for at least 6 months
    I might buy a lens or two though
    Your thoughts WRT D500 are pretty close to mine as well, although I did not think of the Sigma zooms, but they seem to be a hell of glass!

    WRT IQ of m43 compared to Nikon APSC, especially from the D500, I am almost 100% sure that the D500 dances circles around the EM1 as well as their newer offerings like the PenF and very likely also the upcoming EM1m2. WRT menu systems and operation I got meanwhile up to speed with the EM1 and can operate it fast and reliable in almost any situation.

    And yes, good OVFs as we know from D810 or D700 are classes better than the EVF of the EM1. Even classes better than the Fuji XT2 EVF, as also this one is plagued by some delay and responsiveness, as soon as light levels go down.

    If I sell my m43 gear I would probably buy the 80-400 for wildlife and the D500, as this combination would cover all (more) I could cover with the EM1/EM1m2 and all my Oly glass.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    On the other hand, the two Sigma zooms become 13-25 mm and 36-71 mm f/1.25 (?) lenses with a Speed Booster on the E-M1. Maybe worth a try

    Even with an ordinary Nikon G to m4/3 adapter, it would be an interesting experiment, since none of those lenses include image stabilisation, while the E-M1 obviously has IBIS.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Here's another thought, and seriously, it's an interesting one:
    The D5500 is Nikon's hidden gem. It has a great 24 MP sensor, features a "flat" colour profile for video as well as stills, a fold-out touch screen, HDMI video output (8 bit 4-2-2), 1080 60p, a decent grip, shoots 5 fps (only 6 RAW frames though) and weighs around half of what the D500 weighs, at 420 grams including battery. Max shutter speed is only 1/4,000s and the viewfinder is tiny, so one is basically limited to AF, but I've looked at a couple of RAW files and they are surprisingly close to those of the D810 in quality and flexibility.

    Reviews are here:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5500

    and more importantly here:
    http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/12/21...e-nikon-d5500/

    I played a bit with numbers to see what a complete D5500 set with 2 bodies and all lenses I would need for my "normal" travel photography would cost, and came up with a total of $4,700. That might sound like a lot for a plastic amateur camera, but look at the list:

    Nikon D5500 x 2
    Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 (12-24mm eqv.)
    Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 (27-53mm eqv.)
    Sigma 50-100mm f/1.8 (75-150mm eqv.)
    Tamron 45mm f/1.8 VC (68mm eqv.)

    All these lenses are of extremely high quality, and totally sharp from wide open (the 50-100mm hasn't been reviewed yet though). When I look at what I would need to pay to get similar image quality from an FX format camera, this is certainly food for thought. Obviously, one or both of the bodies can be upgraded to D7200 or D500 with increased functionality, no reduction in image quality but increased weight, size and price.



    The package with 2 bodies weighs in at around 4.7 kilograms. It's impossible to find an identical package for FX, since none of the zooms have equivalents for the larger format, but it's an interesting setup all the same. A D810 with a 70-200mm f/2.8 costs $4,900. Add a second body and three more lenses and then... would anybody see a difference in image quality? Functionality yes, but image quality would be a hard nut to crack.

    Just wasting some time in the morning

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Darn. Now you have me thinking about getting a DX body.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    Darn. Now you have me thinking about getting a DX body.


    What I will probably do is testing out one or more of the Sigma zooms on my existing DX bodies (D300 and D2Xs). No single component of the ones pictured above, except the 50-100mm, costs more than $1,000, so trying them out individually won't break the bank. The Tamron lens is a full frame lens anyway.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    What I will probably do is testing out one or more of the Sigma zooms on my existing DX bodies (D300 and D2Xs). No single component of the ones pictured above, except the 50-100mm, costs more than $1,000, so trying them out individually won't break the bank. The Tamron lens is a full frame lens anyway.
    Makes sense except the D5500 has even higher pixel density. OTOH you can get it in red - who wouldn't want a RED camera?
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    Makes sense except the D5500 has even higher pixel density. OTOH you can get it in red - who wouldn't want a RED camera?
    The lenses' ability to handle resolution, I can read about in reviews. What I want to see is how they render, OOF, transitions, colour, CA etc.

    Red cameras are great, and that isn't any old red. Should work perfectly for those "No professional camera gear allowed" events

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The lenses' ability to handle resolution, I can read about in reviews. What I want to see is how they render, OOF, transitions, colour, CA etc.

    Red cameras are great, and that isn't any old red. Should work perfectly for those "No professional camera gear allowed" events
    I read Ming's review again. D5500 seems like a great way to get past the image limits of your older DX Nikons. Of course it will be no match for a D500, but at a fifth/fourth of the cost that's not to be expected.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    I read Ming's review again. D5500 seems like a great way to get past the image limits of your older DX Nikons. Of course it will be no match for a D500, but at a fifth/fourth of the cost that's not to be expected.
    Exactly my thoughts, and for sports and action, the D300 and D2Xs still work fine. Then I have the D700 for portraits etc.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Only issue I am getting is with that Sigma 50-100, this renders a small body and compact DX camera again to a pretty large and heavy combo, much the same as an Olympus EM1 with battery grip and attached 2.8/40-150.

    This soon comes all into a range where I prefer then a larger sensor and less fast lenses and less zoom range. I think in the end FF is still the sweet spot for a lot of I want to do and maybe with a D500 added to a 80-400 this gives unprecedented possibilities.

    Will have a demo of the D500 tomorrow at my dealer which I am looking forward with high interest.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Only issue I am getting is with that Sigma 50-100, this renders a small body and compact DX camera again to a pretty large and heavy combo, much the same as an Olympus EM1 with battery grip and attached 2.8/40-150.

    This soon comes all into a range where I prefer then a larger sensor and less fast lenses and less zoom range. I think in the end FF is still the sweet spot for a lot of I want to do and maybe with a D500 added to a 80-400 this gives unprecedented possibilities.

    Will have a demo of the D500 tomorrow at my dealer which I am looking forward with high interest.
    Big lenses are big lenses whatever camera they sit on. I agree that the 50-100mm is large, but it's actually a few centimetres shorter than the 70-200 f/2.8 and much cheaper. The reasons why I'm looking into this are mostly economics, but also curiosity. I had a look at the dpr studio scene and compared the D5500 with the D750 (much better, but also more than twice the price), the A7 II (slightly better and almost twice the price) and the A6300 (much worse, and slightly more expensive). My conclusion so far is that the D5500 is absurdly cheap, even when very high quality glass is added. The full frame alternatives are nice, but the question is how many will see the difference. Add to that the much more expensive lenses, it's really a no go for a photographer on a budget.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Big lenses are big lenses whatever camera they sit on. I agree that the 50-100mm is large, but it's actually a few centimetres shorter than the 70-200 f/2.8 and much cheaper. The reasons why I'm looking into this are mostly economics, but also curiosity. I had a look at the dpr studio scene and compared the D5500 with the D750 (much better, but also more than twice the price), the A7 II (slightly better and almost twice the price) and the A6300 (much worse, and slightly more expensive). My conclusion so far is that the D5500 is absurdly cheap, even when very high quality glass is added. The full frame alternatives are nice, but the question is how many will see the difference. Add to that the much more expensive lenses, it's really a no go for a photographer on a budget.
    I hear you Jorgen and quite often I find myself being in a similar boat

    The D5500 is for sure a great camera for the money. But I would be careful with APSC lenses and while I am sure the Sigma's are great, they will not bring much money when selling. And that point in time comes often sooner than later, as we both know.

    I found the "kit lens" for the D500 quite interesting - the DX 2.8-4/16-50, although a bit more expensive, but seems to be rather Nikon pro quality and offers VR. The Sigma 50-100 is definitely to large for my taste.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    But the real fact is that what I already have actually works very well, even the ultra-boring but rather sharp Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. If I really buy a D5500, the most immediate need would be a WA zoom for DX, the Sigma mentioned above or the Tokina. The whole point of this exercise was to save money, so "investing" a couple of thousand in new lenses may not be the smartest idea

    Back to mother earth, boring but safe

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    But the real fact is that what I already have actually works very well, even the ultra-boring but rather sharp Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8. If I really buy a D5500, the most immediate need would be a WA zoom for DX, the Sigma mentioned above or the Tokina. The whole point of this exercise was to save money, so "investing" a couple of thousand in new lenses may not be the smartest idea

    Back to mother earth, boring but safe
    I was beginning to wonder ...

    Now that I have the SL and a fully-stuffed kit of Leica R lenses to use with it, I am not really planning to buy anything much and just need to get on with selling off the copious excess that I'm not using much. The SL may well end up saving me a bundle over time. :-)

    G

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    the most immediate need would be a WA zoom for DX
    My Nikon 12-24 needs a new home...
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The SL may well end up saving me a bundle over time. :-)
    Whatever justification you need, man.
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    My Nikon 12-24 needs a new home...
    For DX. For FX, I'll probably buy the Irix 15mm f/2.4.



    Irix

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For DX. For FX, I'll probably buy the Irix 15mm f/2.4.
    Right. The 12-24 f/4 is a DX lens.
    Aaand now I'm thinking I need an Irix lens...
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    Right. The 12-24 f/4 is a DX lens.
    Aaand now I'm thinking I need an Irix lens...
    Aaaah.... sorry, I confused it with the 14-24mm.

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    Re: Selling stuff

    Jorgen, since you are keeping your D700 - did you try using it with a grip and a D2x battery? Improves shutter response and frame rate quire a bit (and focusing speed on mechanically coupled AF lenses as well).
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    Re: Selling stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars View Post
    Jorgen, since you are keeping your D700 - did you try using it with a grip and a D2x battery? Improves shutter response and frame rate quire a bit (and focusing speed on mechanically coupled AF lenses as well).
    I haven't yet. Pure laziness, since I have the grip but haven't gotten around to buy the little plastic bit that goes at the end of the battery (and is apparently not the same as I use when the battery goes into the D2Xs).

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