D850

[Jorgen Udvang]

We're taking the thread a little OT, but heck, it's all discussion

I think my prime "trios" will change with subject matter, and actually for me with primes it's almost always "foursomes" :ROTFL: . For travel, probably 18/28/50/180. For landscape, 24/50/85/180. For people/street, 28/50/105/180. Currently those are all Nikkors except my 24 and 50 which are ARTs (both exceptionally good optically on the D810). But I'm actually considering getting back the 50/1.4 G for travel -- I like the way it renders and it's a lot more compact than the ART, though the 50/1.8 I have is remarkably similar save for the 1/3rd stop. If the Nikkor 50/1.2 were AF it would be in my bag now and forevermore. But it's not, and my eyes are not as good as they used to be, and so ultimately the reason I sold it.

I've been trying to reduce from 4 to 3 lenses, partly because the 58mm doesn't really fit well with any 4 lens combo that I can think of, and I'm looking for an excuse to buy that lens

My four lens combo would be 21/35/85ish/135ish. I had the 180 with the D810, but to my surprise, I mostly found it too long for street and travel. 85ish could actually be either of the 60 or 105mm macros. A close focusing lens is very convenient when travelling, and I assume both of those lenses would work well with the D850.

 

[Jack]

I've been trying to reduce from 4 to 3 lenses, partly because the 58mm doesn't really fit well with any 4 lens combo that I can think of, and I'm looking for an excuse to buy that lens

My four lens combo would be 21/35/85ish/135ish. I had the 180 with the D810, but to my surprise, I mostly found it too long for street and travel. 85ish could actually be either of the 60 or 105mm macros. A close focusing lens is very convenient when travelling, and I assume both of those lenses would work well with the D850.

Got it. A couple of comments FWIW... To my eyes, the 60 macro while sharp is vanilla in rendering. I would prefer the 58 as it draws nicely and is a very nice portrait 50 -- however, it is a tad long for my desires as I'd actually prefer about 45 to 50 much of the time. Moreover, the 58 is nearly as large as the 85/1.4, which I prefer for portraits anyway. Plus I already have the 50 ART for head-and-shoulder work, and I think it's stellar optically all-around, but it's also big and heavy, too much so for travel or street IMHO. The 105 is a nice option if one wants really close focusing, but then I have the 105 DC and I love the way it renders -- and from my own history I know I'd put it my bag for travel or street in lieu of the 85 before the 105 macro.

Given the work I see you produce, I would guess you and the 58 will meld nicely. This would indicate the 105 macro for you. Now leaving the 21 ZF for your preferred wide.

Another comment on why I shun 20/21 focals -- IME for the way *I* see, the 21 is never quite wide enough when I want to go wide, hence my pref for the 18 AF -- but admittedly it isn't as sharp as the ZF 21 or the ZF 18, but it draws nicely and I absolutely prefer AF...

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

And now this :loco:

https://christopherswan.co.uk/blog/2017/8/24/a-new-camera

 

[fotografz]

And now this :loco:

https://christopherswan.co.uk/blog/2017/8/24/a-new-camera

I'd bet a dollar to a donut this guy ran out of money, or his wife forced any spare money go toward home improvements or their kid's college fund. :ROTFL:

People rant about advertising and marketing making them buy something they don't need. That is 100% true. All people need is enough food to survive, some shelter, and a loin cloth ... but most people want more.

I started formulating that sort of "fu*k 'em, I don't need all that stuff" rationale after retiring. Buying other stuff like a new place to live, and second one in Florida took priority over camera gear. Even if I had the spare 20K needed to update my Leica M and S kits, I wouldn't do it because of that. I use a Sony system for the other stuff, and despise spending another nickel on it unless I can make more money with it doing some commercial work. Now their latest greatest is $4,500!!!! and the new improved lenses are off the charts for this sort of system. Being the new kid on the block put them in the cat-bird's seat ... you HAVE to upgrade because their first attempts fell short.

At least with Nikon, you have lenses galore, and one's, as Jack said, that have character. Even in my present financial situation, I'd find a way to get this new Nikon were I a Nikon shooter. Wouldn't make me a better photographer, but if a new toy engages you a bit more or some feature makes excellence a bit easier ... maybe it would

- Marc

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I'd bet a dollar to a donut this guy ran out of money, or his wife forced any spare money go toward home improvements or their kid's college fund. :ROTFL:

People rant about advertising and marketing making them buy something they don't need. That is 100% true. All people need is enough food to survive, some shelter, and a loin cloth ... but most people want more.

I started formulating that sort of "fu*k 'em, I don't need all that stuff" rationale after retiring. Buying other stuff like a new place to live, and second one in Florida took priority over camera gear. Even if I had the spare 20K needed to update my Leica M and S kits, I wouldn't do it because of that. I use a Sony system for the other stuff, and despise spending another nickel on it unless I can make more money with it doing some commercial work. Now their latest greatest is $4,500!!!! and the new improved lenses are off the charts for this sort of system. Being the new kid on the block put them in the cat-bird's seat ... you HAVE to upgrade because their first attempts fell short.

At least with Nikon, you have lenses galore, and one's, as Jack said, that have character. Even in my present financial situation, I'd find a way to get this new Nikon were I a Nikon shooter. Wouldn't make me a better photographer, but if a new toy engages you a bit more or some feature makes excellence a bit easier ... maybe it would

- Marc

I do think he might have been joking. On the other hand, I'm totally filled with respect for a man like Nick Brandt who, while shooting the panoramas for "Inherit the Dust" in Africa, sends somebody to London to have a few hundred rolls of film developed, because that's what he uses for his work. Digital would've been simpler of course, but apparently he didn't enter this world to make things simple.

And that's the paradox when considering a camera like the D850 as well. Getting the results that I aim for will be much easier with this new wonderbody than with my GX680 or any of my ancient digital bodies that still work fine. But do I need it any simpler now?

People who play golf don't do it because it's simple. If they did, they could just walk over to the hole and drop the ball straight in. They play golf because it's a challenge. I know that challenges are good for me as well. Photographic challenges

 

[Vivek]

That is one of the reasons why I asked wouldn't an A99r be a better comparison to the DSLR. The FE mount cams are in a different league in terms of versatility, IME.

I don't want to derail this thread any further, but let me point out that my Nikkor 50/1.2 and Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 can be used with AF via the TechArt Pro adapter on A7rII, A9, a6300, and a6500. It works amazingly well.

 

[k-hawinkler]

That is one of the reasons why I asked wouldn't an A99r be a better comparison to the DSLR. The FE mount cams are in a different league in terms of versatility, IME.

Thanks Vivek, I have no interest in DSLRs at this time or a comparison thereof.
At this time I am heavily invested in Olympus and Sony gear and like the results.
I still have my Nikon lenses (except the 3 I gave to my son together with the D3 and D300).
Therefore the D850 would be the logical choice to add to my D800E, D200 and D40 - if I wanted to.
BTW, all 5 cameras are in great working order.

However, I get better use of my Nikkor 28/1.4, 50/1.2, Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2, etc. on my Sony A7r.2, a6300, and A9.
Those cameras give me AF via the TechArt Pro adapter for my older Nikon and Leica M and R lenses.
The newer Nikkor AF-S lenses, like my AF-S 80-400/4.5-5.6, require a different adapter to use on the Sony cameras.
The Commlite AF adapter or its siblings are a work in progress and not yet up to the task.

With the A9, FE 100-400/4.5-5.6, TCs 1.4x and 2x Sony created a winner and hit the ball out of the park.
What interests me is what the Sony A9r will look like.
Until then I will just use what I already have, including the Mavic Pro. :grin:

 

[jdphoto]

And now this :loco:

https://christopherswan.co.uk/blog/2017/8/24/a-new-camera

Thanks for posting this link. I completely agree with his assessment.

This is along the lines what i've been saying all along. Seriously consider the points being made in that link. Stop fueling this machine of insane consumerism, obsolescence and useless upgrades which do nothing to improve the boring photos which are usually resized for web use to garner as many likes as possible. As consumers we need to make a stand against this obscene onslaught of relentless marketing.

 

[Jack]

I don't see it as an either/or; a must-have versus a do-not-need. I see it as a journey. Moreover, we can choose to travel that journey in any fashion we want. Me personally, I like to experiment with new technologies and that process in itself gives me pleasure -- as much pleasure as making a great image. The difference is it's the technologist in me that's pleased on the one-hand, and the artist in me that's pleased on the other...

/ :lecture:

 

[ptomsu]

I don't see it as an either/or; a must-have versus a do-not-need. I see it as a journey. Moreover, we can choose to travel that journey in any fashion we want. Me personally, I like to experiment with new technologies and that process in itself gives me pleasure -- as much pleasure as making a great image. The difference is it's the technologist in me that's pleased on the one-hand, and the artist in me that's pleased on the other...

/ :lecture:

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

I could not have said it better Jack !!!!

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Thorkil]

For my part it’s totally ok that people want to get the newest, and best gear, and while Nikon right now need support, its extra and totally ok to buy the D850. And somehow I admire people that can manage to read an instruction book. I’ve got that problem, that after only a few pages…I’m sleeping, rather well. So in these directions I’m rather impatiently constructed between the ears. But I envy those who can. And even books in general is not my strong side. Yes, Rodion (Crime and punishment) Raskolnikov by Dostojevsky, I managed to read in few days (600 pages), but that was only because it was so extraordinary interesting (that also a recommendation…try it after all the manualreading). My wife claim to all our friends I only read carmagazines and manuals. But she’s wrong, I only read carmagazines.
So a camera to me, therefore have to be either very or acceptable simple or very interesting. And very few are very interesting, in my mind. So there has to be some action involved, also in the learning process, else I get very sleepy. So the camera has to communicate at a certain direct manner to me, else it goes wrong. I remember the Ricoh Gr, after unpacking, I went out right away (enough battery), I learned while walking, and after 10-15 minutes walk I had the clu of most of the things involved, and I have used it for several years, but never read about it. The Df it was the same way(well some few pages I have read..). Its so intuitive you can use it at once, and menu’s are simple to catch. The D800E I went wrong with, perhaps just a wrong approach, perhaps just a wrong startmood – sold.
I admire, respect and envy people who are able to make their approach in the more strict bookkeeper-way, and who are not restricted by this silly mood-oriented way the camera has to speak to me at.
But it has nothing to do with how you see things, the aesthetic, graphic, colourwise or funny-wise way you see a picture up front of you. But the ability to investigate and dig deeper in the construction and software of a camera just provide you with some more tools. Thats it.
But I’m satisfied with this my lack of ability in that direction, or rather this: I have learned to forgive myself in that direction, and accept. I have lust for the D850, but I know that I might better be able to take that kind of pictures I’m so much longing at, by staying put at the Df
So moderation can sometimes mean more than less…for some.
Thorkil

 

[fotografz]

A lot of this is based on the notion that all photographers are upgrading with every new launch or incremental improvement. New. Now. New.

I'd challenge that as being antidotal GetDpi experience. I suspect, that more photographers may go generations of models before updating. So there are folks doing just fine with older cameras who now may be interested in something new because 1) their's is worn out or can't be repaired anymore, 2) Their needs have changed, 3) The difference between what they have and the new camera is significant, not just incremental tweaks that weren't worth it to them.

- Marc

 

[k-hawinkler]

Or just want to use a variety of gear: old and new. :grin:

 

[bensonga]

Or just want to use a variety of gear: old and new. :grin:

Yup, that's me. Old or new, Nikon or whatever...I enjoy the different experiences and challenges of using a wide variety of gear, film and digital. I don't expect to make better or worse photos with any of it.

I usually wait until the new gear has been out for a year or more so the prices have fallen a bit, but that's just me. The D850 will be the first camera I have "pre-ordered" or bought new at the full intro price for a very, very long time. It is still possible I will change my mind and wait for the rebates, since I don't really "need" the D850, but it has enough new features (such as the tilting rear LCD) I would enjoy using vs my D800e that it seems like a worthwhile upgrade. Now if I could just bring myself to sell the D800e, that would offset a little (very little) of the cost for the D850.

Gary

 

[Dustbak]

Agreed! I am not sure what to do with the D800e. The main reason I pre-ordered the D850 is the finder. I do anything to be able to have a better view (which is why I also enjoy my MF gear) especially since my near vision is deteriorating and I now use reading glasses

I fear I might not use the D800e anymore after the D850 and it might go the way of my D700 (to my kids).

 

[Jack]

I think the real question now becomes for many, is the D850 going to be worth the extra $2000 USD or so over the cost of a mint used D810 (or TWO nice used D810's)?


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:bugeyes: :banghead: :bugeyes:

 

[DougDolde]

Compared to Phase One this camera is a give away. Count me in

 

[Jack]

Compared to Phase One this camera is a give away.

Good point. In Phase language it's not even significant enough to be a rebate! :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I think the real question now becomes for many, is the D850 going to be worth the extra $2000 USD or so over the cost of a mint used D810 (or TWO nice used D810's)?


:bugeyes: :banghead: :bugeyes:

Exactly, or in my case, a mint D810 plus a GH5 which with the firmware upgrades that were launched yesterday looks like a totally new and extremely attractive camera, as if that wasn't the case even before that upgrade.

The "problem" we face these days is that more or less any enthusiast or professional grade camera currently on the market delivers results that are more than good enough for most commercial applications. I've been shooting industrial, travel and event the last year with a second hand GX8 and a GM5, and if image quality is the criteria, those two cameras are good enough for my use.

 

[Steen]

c'mon, you guys are far too humble, modest, and polite
for my skills no less than a D850 will suffice :lecture: