D850

[Vivek]

Ai, it would be something if Steen were to take his D50 to Morrocco to capture the same/ similar picture in 2017 instead of one of his latest gear, the D500 or the Df to support his claim.

Many ditched the crippled crop cams like D40/50/70 for better ones to make better use of old AI/AIS lenses. The demand for D200 was very intense at that time and there were good reasons behind it. It came with a real penta prism instead of the dark penta mirrors of the d40/50/70s.

 

[Jack]

Ai and Vivek -- put a halt to your online argument right now. If you want to banter further, take it offline. Too many of us want to discuss the D850 --- and to be clear it's also okay if the discussion includes how it relates to other cameras and moreover can include images from other cameras even if they're really old technology...

 

[Vivek]

Did not mean to divert the topic, Jack. Sorry.

I am also interested in the D850 discussion, especially its new features.

 

[Jack]

I had another thought on this cam regarding resolution, and that is aperture diffraction. To be clear, I probably won't notice it for most of my needs, but I recognize it may be a consideration for some. The pixel pitch of the D850 is about 4.3u, which would translate to a diffraction limited aperture of about f6.3.* By contrast, the D810 is closer to f7.1.

* FWIW, I've found f# = pixel-pitch x 1.5 to render very close to the useful limit for the best lenses in calculating the point I can start to see image degradation due to diffraction at 100% pixel view. (You need a good lens and a good imaging regimen to see it, but for example if you tripod and use mirror-up, you can see it with a lens like the Sigma ART 50.) Though for most imaging, the limit can be easily pushed a stop or so beyond this as the diffraction limit is still less than the CoC for most output uses.

 

[Steen]

In my opinion a very important point, Jack.
I'm actually not too keen on the increased resolution exactly because of that point.
I would have preferred that Nikon had stayed at 36Mp with the 4,9 µm pixel pitch which was sufficient to get rid of the blurring filter.
With D800E I was fine using f/8, but rarely went beyond that, due to noticeable diffraction if I looked for it and used meticulous technique, tripod and all.
On the other hand I'd love to get all the other improvements with this new body.
Hmm

 

[Steen]

(...) Focus stacking anyone?

Yeah, perhaps the diffraction challenge with the high FF resolution and thus the small pixel pitch is an important part of the reasons why Nikon decided they had to add Focus Stacking, to use with sceneries that require a wide Depth of Field.
Would make sense, I think.

 

[Vivek]

Steen, i have no idea why focus stacking would be only limited to macro captures.

Take a look at the example shown by Nikon here (p30).

http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96...FYyKWnWU6L2l14O7STBw==/Misc/D850_brochure.pdf

It would be quite useful for landscapes.

Besides, the old thoughts about difrraction limits are not applicable to the current imaging technology.

Sony have algorithms that mitigate diffraction related issues.

I would think that it is quite safe to stop down with the new camera.

 

[JCT]

at your service, sir :salute:

© • click for actual pixels


© • Nikon D50 • AF-S Nikkor 18-70mm @ 18mm • 1/45 sec. at f/8 ISO 200 • Capture NX • [a880_DSC_4632]
​

Just lovely Steen - reminds me of Chefchaouen in Morocco.

JT

 

[Steen]

Steen, i have no idea why focus stacking would be only limited to macro captures.

Take a look at the example shown by Nikon here (p30).

http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96...FYyKWnWU6L2l14O7STBw==/Misc/D850_brochure.pdf

It would be quite useful for landscapes.

(...)

Yes absolutely, Vivek, I fully agree :thumbup:

Landscape photography was actually exactly what I had in mind when expressing the hope that focus stacking could to some extent solve diffraction challenges, by using medium apertures in combination with focus stacking, instead of heavily stopping down.

 

[Paul2660]

From use with P1 and the XF, Focus stacking is great as long as your subject does not move. Any movement, and the tools all have issues and the issues will be pretty much to the extent that you cannot complete the process. Helicon is great for landscape work but if your trees or leaves move really at all, then the tool cannot complete the process and creates a lot of aliasing. Zerene stacker also has this issue. These are the only two I have tried with deep stacks.

Macro work, on a flower or blossom, again needs really no wind induced movement.

The best results seem to be studio work where environmental conditions can be controlled.

The additional feature of focus stacking is great and I totally agree that it can be used with good results vs stopping down and increasing the effects of diffraction. But I just rarely get a totally wind free environment with which to use this.

I am hoping that C1 and LR both have good raw conversions as both of these tools now have excellent deconvolution sharpening which can be used with great effect to offset diffraction.

Paul Caldwell

 

[jlancasterd]

Having seen on Nikon Rumours that the D850 manual is now available for download, I did so in order to investigated how some of the new features (such as the negative digitiser) have been implemented. The digitisation process seems quite simple, to the extent that I'm not quite sure why it necessarily involves buying a new film/slide holder to mount on the 60mm macro lens.

Another surprise is that (on page 351) a D850 kit consisting of the camera plus the AF-S Nikkor 24-120 f4G ED VR lens is advertised. No other lenses are mentioned. Does this possibly mean that the D850 has been 'tuned' to this lens in some way?

 

[GrahamWelland]

The body / 24-120VR combo has been offered by Nikon many times before. I wouldn't read anything significant into that bundling.

 

[Jack]

I am not going to be an early adopter of this camera. I am not going to be an early adopter of this camera. I am not going to be an early adopter of this camera.

...

 

[DougDolde]

@Jack

If you haven't pre ordered you won't be anyway

 

[Swissblad]

This camera looks impressive - I updated my ACR and played around with some of the NEFs posted on the web - and at 12800iso it holds up very well.

Hope to get one soon!

:thumbs:

 

[Jack]

@Jack

If you haven't pre ordered you won't be anyway

prolly true, though I do have some connections On the upside, I don't really even want the camera -- ANY new camera -- unless/until C1 can process the raws. Seriously!

 

[DougDolde]

Thom Hogan's take on pre orders isn't very comforting

D850 Pre-Orders | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

 

[jduncan]

View attachment 129072

Thom Hogan's take on pre orders isn't very comforting

D850 Pre-Orders | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

Hi,
it looks very good. Nikon could have a major hit, maybe even a comeback if they:

1. Fulfill the orders before the next generation, high-resolution Sony hits the market (a high-resolution version of the A9)

2. They don't pull a Nikon: Bad quality or worse, they go back to bad quality + bad communications.

I really love this camera, but after what we have seen with the D800E, D800, D600 (the worse), D750 etc, I am forcing myself to wait.

Best regards,

 

[k-hawinkler]

Thom Hogan's take on pre orders isn't very comforting

D850 Pre-Orders | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

Cheerful indeed, I still remember my D800E experience very well. :facesmack:
Next we probably will hear from Lloyd Chambers... :loco:
Another cheerful guy.

 

[Paul2660]

Not sure what Nikon was thinking.

Let's see we haven't made a new update to the D810 in 2 years and a new sensor larger than 36MP in around 5 years. So I guess we won't need to make more than 100 or so units.

Someone said Nikon was having financial issues I wonder why?

You think they could have figured it out by now.

As stated previously very remincient of the D800 and D800e.

Hopefully there won't be a recall right out of the gate like with the D750 and D810.

Paul Caldwell