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D850

Paul2660

Well-known member
It's an interesting score, Dynamic range and color seem to exceed the D810 at base ISO, but the higher ISO range, the D810 had an edge. Per their tests, not what Nikon had stated at the announcement. But still a great score.

Only other camera to get 100 was the Pentax 645z with 100 also, but for some reason DxO pulled that test. I used to have a screen print of it but have lost it.

Would also love to see them test the IQ3100 or H6D.

Paul Caldwell
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
So it's roughly 3% better than the D810, which can be bought used for 40-50% less. My inner accountant will tell me that a used D810 is better value. The $1,500 difference invested in a good lens, like a 58/1.4 or 85/1.4, will take my photography much further than 3% better sensor performance. Yes I know, there's other stuff to be considered too, like those cool xzqzrxd memory cards that would cost me a small fortune. But distant memory tells me that the D810 worked just fine with CF cards (that I have a little army of). Actually, distant memory tells me that the D810 was kind of revolutionary just a couple of years ago, and it certainly beats the D300 that I use occasionally to take photos with, photos that I sell too.

Yup, I do understand people who buy the D850. It looks like a cool tool for sure, and if I were running out of storage space for money, I would certainly buy one. But for me right now, it's the best argument ever to re-buy into D810 territory :)
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
What I read here is what I expected --- incremental performance increases along with a host of state of the art convenience features. Moreover, the last few comparisons show how close the major high-resolution cameras from Nikon, Sony and Canon are in net performance. End of day, it's boiling down to preferences.

If you need the new features, then your decision is easy. In my case, I feel much as Jorgen -- I definitely like a lot of the new features on the D850, but I seriously don't need any of them for my imaging -- most of the extra $1500 I spend would likely sit unused, or at least un-needed. So it becomes more of a want, and I'm not sure how badly I want it. So right now I "sort of want" the new cam, but OTOH, having a second D810 would keep life simpler. I am left thinking the smart approach *for me* is pressing along with my old technology for yet another product cycle, Hmmm----- decisions, decisions...
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
I guess we all have a different set of reasons we do photography. I personally don't do this for money, so I don't have that internal accountant for this matter. I feel it's more like hunting to me, though I'm not a big hunter. But I have friends who buy hunting rifles and they may have many of those (only hunting weapon is legal in Russia, otherwise you're going straight to jail). They love them as their babies (well, less then that :) But you got the point.

So, I don't really care about how many % it's better then 810. I just want this tool for my next travel somewhere! And the Otus :)

BTW, when I'm with the camera I really feel sometimes like I'm on a hunting for something... It's just a different state of mind.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

:lecture: there's no honest and legal way I can afford it - hmm, decisions, decisions :cool:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I guess we all have a different set of reasons we do photography. I personally don't do this for money, so I don't have that internal accountant for this matter. I feel it's more like hunting to me, though I'm not a big hunter. But I have friends who buy hunting rifles and they may have many of those (only hunting weapon is legal in Russia, otherwise you're going straight to jail). They love them as their babies (well, less then that :) But you got the point.

So, I don't really care about how many % it's better then 810. I just want this tool for my next travel somewhere! And the Otus :)

BTW, when I'm with the camera I really feel sometimes like I'm on a hunting for something... It's just a different state of mind.
Yup, recognise the money spending thing. I've been doing sailing as well as golf, both of which make photography seem like a hobby for the masses :ROTFL:
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
Maybe the trickiest part of these incrementally-better product introductions is what to do with the "old" model. I've owned and watched as the value of what was once the top-of-the-line camera body rather quickly became worth less than the shipping cost to sell it. Add to that my tendency to form sentimental attachments to gear (like my now dormant D700) and I can easily see myself resisting buying anything new until the difference offered by the NEW can be considered a major leap forward. If I'm honest with myself I recognize that I can take mundane photos just as successfully with my existing gear as I could if I had a new kit.

Which is not to say that I'm immune. Just that in the case of the D850 I'm very comfortable taking a pass (OTOH, the D900...)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I gave the D850 a test drive last week. Impressive camera, impressive OVF, impressive new features ....

But after having owned a D800E and a D810, which were impressive as well, but I still sold both of them including all the lenses mainly because I nowadays prefer mirrorless and also a smaller form factor (i.e. Olympus m43 and Fuji X), I was immediately reminded of the IMPRESSIVE size advantage and EVF advantage of both systems and it was easy for me to cancel my D850 plans pretty fast.

I am sure that for those who choose this camera for whatever reason they will earn a great photographic tool/system and be able to produce whatever impressive images they want. But for me, for now, I am done with DSLR and FF. Maybe whenever a FF mirrorless Nikon sees the light of the day this situation might change - who knows :cool:
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
@ Peter, I totally respect your choice for your photographic needs!

But for my needs, FF is definitely there and at a minimum format size for me -- quite frankly, anything smaller and I'd just as soon shoot with my far more convenient and surprisingly good iPhone... In fact, I've actually considered going UP to the Fuji GFX or Hassy H1D to get the look from the larger sensor, but the glass limitations keep me squarely dedicated to the Nikon FF platform.

Moreover, if *I myself* had to have a great EVF, then I'd buy a FF Sony just to get the FF part ;) And in fact I have a Sony A7r set up for full-spectrum since EVF is the most viable for heavy TTL viewing with heavy lens filtration and it gives me FF. Again for me personally, I much prefer the best eye-level TTL finder I can get for my normal imaging needs, be it EV or OV -- and right now that seems to remain OV...

I do however respect YMMV...
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
@ Peter, I totally respect your choice for your photographic needs!

But for my needs, FF is definitely there and at a minimum format size for me -- quite frankly, anything smaller and I'd just as soon shoot with my far more convenient and surprisingly good iPhone... In fact, I've actually considered going UP to the Fuji GFX or Hassy H1D to get the look from the larger sensor, but the glass limitations keep me squarely dedicated to the Nikon FF platform.

Moreover, if *I myself* had to have a great EVF, then I'd buy a FF Sony just to get the FF part ;) And in fact I have a Sony A7r set up for full-spectrum since EVF is the most viable for heavy TTL viewing with heavy lens filtration and it gives me FF. Again for me personally, I much prefer the best eye-level TTL finder I can get for my normal imaging needs, be it EV or OV -- and right now that seems to remain OV...

I do however respect YMMV...
Jack,

I fully hear you and understand your reasons for staying with FF Nikon. My personal needs for the time being are obviously different and as crazy as it sound best met with m43 and Fuji X. I was really trying hard to argue myself back into Nikon FF with the appearance of the D850 and while tis is maybe the pinnacle of high end FF DSLR it only would satisfy my needs maybe 20-30 percent. And for that entering back into a still pretty expensive system (mind you I have no more Nikon glass left) is just not what I want to do.

One argument against the D850 for me is also that lately I am using my gear quite a bit for video including 4k. And while the D850 seems to be stellar in that area it lacks an EVF and that means you have to set it up with whatever external monitors or recorders which is not my way and style to shoot. Any mirrorless offers by far much more flexibility already integrated - as your Sony A7r. But also both my XT2 and my EM1.2 do the same if not better for me!

I was BTW also very interested in the Fuji GFX, especially as I am bonding so well with my Fuji XT2. But then again as you mentioned I am missing lot of lenses I meanwhile need for my photography, especially long tele zooms. So I forgot about that pretty soon.

Mirrorless FF options would have been Leica SL and Sony A9 - the first currently a bit out of my price range and the second I still have not the trust it needs to get back into a system that absolutely lacked any continuity over the past years. Both might change sooner than later and also Nikon is rumoured to bring FF mirrorless which could turn out to be pretty interesting alternative.

But again - this is my very personal opinion about the D850 for my needs which does not change anything about that it is the most advanced and capable FF DSLR today - and maybe the last one.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Although I still have a lot of Nikon gear, including D40, D200, D800E, I mainly use Sony FF, APS-C, and Olympus FT, MFT gear.
I gave my son the D3 and D300 when I got the D800E. I don't miss the D300, but I do miss the D3.
The D3 was and still is a favorite camera for me, only recently joined by the Sony A9 as a similarly favorite tool, including for action shots.
Although the D850 seems to be an impressive tool, at this time I can't see myself going back to relying on DSLRs for my hobby photography.

However, I can still use my Nikon/Nikkor lenses on some of my Sony cameras with autofocus even for manual only Nikkor lenses. :thumbs:
I have two types of electronic adapters, one type for Nikkor AF-S lenses with builtin focussing motor.
The other adapter type for non-AF-S lenses that simply pushes the entire lens towards or away from the camera to achieve focus.

For Nikkor AF-S lenses I have two versions of the Commlite CM-ENF-E1 adapter, namely:

Commlite CM-ENF-E1 ..... Nikon F Mount Lens to Sony E Mount Autofocus Electronic Lens Adapter (2016) with firmware version 04.
Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Pro Nikon F Mount Lens to Sony E Mount Autofocus Electronic Lens Adapter (2017) with firmware version 05.

According to Commlite PHOTO & VIDEO Accessories, quote:

The Newest Firmware: Ver. 06 _2017.09.28 (Windows Only)

Notice:
1. Upgrade CM-ENF-E1 PRO from Ver.05 to Ver.06
2. Upgrade CM-ENF-E1 from Ver.04 to Ver.06 directly

Upgrading Details:
V06 Firmware Upgrading Content:
1. Compatible with SONY A9;
2.Compatible with following new lens:
AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8E ED VR
AF-S 70-200mm f2.8E FL ED VR
AF-S 105mm f/1.4E
85MM f/1.4 ART
135mm f/1.8 ART

I plan on doing the Firmware upgrade soon for both of my adapters.
The new AF-S 105mm f/1.4E lens in this setup seems very tempting!

One difference I noticed using the adapters on A9 and A7rII, the A7rII fails earlier when light levels get lower.
Also the A9 supports Eye-AF, the A7rII doesn't.
When using the adapters they need a few moments before they start focusing, quite well in good light though.
However, I don't consider them suitable for BIFs.

Here are a few shots from yesterday with Sony A7rII + Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Electronic Adapter + AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

Los Alamos Golf Course.

Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Electronic Adapter + AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED @ ISO 100, FOCAL LENGTH 35.0 mm (35.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/13, EXPOSURE TIME 0.0125s (1/80).

Living at the Edge

Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Electronic Adapter + AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED @ ISO 100, FOCAL LENGTH 35.0 mm (35.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/11, EXPOSURE TIME 0.00625s (1/160).

At Horse Mesa

Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Electronic Adapter + AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED @ ISO 200, FOCAL LENGTH 35.0 mm (35.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/13, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).

Pikaboo

Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Commlite CM-ENF-E1 Electronic Adapter + AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED @ ISO 320, FOCAL LENGTH 35.0 mm (35.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/13, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).



The other type of adapter I have is the TechArt Pro, in short TAP, autofocus LM-AE7 adapter that adapts Leica M-mount to the Sony E-mount.
So to use a Nikon F-mount lens, one needs another (dumb) F-M adapter to finally attach via TAP to a Sony A7II, A7rII, a6300, a6500, or A9.

Here are some shots with this autofocus adapter, first with Sony A7rII + Nikon Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2 @ f/1.2


Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2 @ ISO 800, FOCAL LENGTH 58.0 mm (58.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/1.2, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).


Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2 @ ISO 1000, FOCAL LENGTH 58.0 mm (58.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/1.2, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).


Here are two images shot with Sony A7rII + Nikon Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2, I believe @ f/4.


Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2 @ ISO 1250, FOCAL LENGTH 58.0 mm (58.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/4, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).


Sony ILCE-7RM2 + Noct-NIKKOR 58/1.2 @ ISO 1000, FOCAL LENGTH 58.0 mm (58.0 mm in 35mm), APERTURE f/4, EXPOSURE TIME 0.01667s (1/60).
 

fotografz

Well-known member
It's interesting to read the changing needs and preferences of long time GetDpi friends. More folks seem to be getting honest about their true intentions and matching their tools to those intentions and personal tastes. Of particular interest is the questioning of product cycles and their net worth to each of us.

When I look back at some decisions I made regarding gear, I seriously question what I was thinking. At the time, I was doing more commercial works and had the money to constantly "upgrade" (or so I thought). In fact 50% of the time it was a waste of money and made virtually no difference in the things I was trying to accomplish. Now my greatest hope is that what I currently have will last much longer than any previous set of photographic tools of the past.

Other than a 100 meg MFD and proper optics to realize that potential, Possibly a M10 eventually, and a longer lens for my FF 35mm digital camera, there is nothing that interests me in the least. There always seems to be an impediment that eliminates some interesting choices. 100 meg might as well be a $Million as far a cost is concerned, I cannot swallow the M10 price tag either, and I can barely justify today's pricing for a long lens on the 35mm ... which, to be frank, I am ambivalent about anyway ... my Sony A7R-II is everything on paper, but I only see it as a necessary "utilitarian" evil to do some of the remaining commercial work I still do. I actually don't even like the camera, and never did. It's imaging characteristics that others love are meh! to me.

And, so the winds of change blow weaker these days ... and I'm learning how to get more out of my cell phone camera (the companion to my ever present Leica M Monochrome) to shoot touristy color stuff because it's always with me anyway.

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
:lecture: καὶ σὺ, τέκνον ;)
Hardly a stabbing indictment Steen. As of late I have returned to my roots established with film Leica Ms + Tri-X, and have been shooting nearly 100% B&W street candids and urban studies with my recently refurbished M Monochrome. Color in these circumstances is a distraction from the B&W, or is just some snap for information or to record something, and easily done with a cell phone. Most serious color work tends to be commercial or decorative which I do with a Leica S(006). I've remained unconvinced that CMOS M or S cameras offer anything more than I already have or need, and in fact still hold the opinion that the CCD versions better serve my visual tastes. Not having to "upgrade" and purchase an $8,000 M and $18,000 S doesn't break my heart either.:clap:

- Marc
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
That's becoming a sad thread.... ;)
Sad? Not sure though!

I think for the first time a lot of us start thinking about what they need and if they really need it. Issue is that camera vendors have been trying to convince us for so many years - actually since digital came up in photography - that we all need always all these new features they are bringing with their latest models. But for many of us this obviously holds no longer true. And this is a very good evolution!

I for myself am very happy with the 24MP or 20MP of my Fuji / Olympus cameras and their lenses are nothing short of outstanding. Also I really do not see a need for FF for the moment - or let me put it the other way - if Nikon brings a pro-like mirrorless FF next year I would be much more tempted and why should I then today invest in a body like the D850 that is still DSLR and no way of having an integrated or at least small attachable EVF - which became one of my main requirements. So better wait and see where they go with their mirrorless system and lenses in the next year.

I find this all not sad, as this mind gives us much more time to decide what/if we need some new features and this is of course individually different for all of us. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Sad it is maybe only for Nikon :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
Hardly a stabbing indictment Steen. As of late I have returned to my roots established with film Leica Ms + Tri-X, and have been shooting nearly 100% B&W street candids and urban studies with my recently refurbished M Monochrome. Color in these circumstances is a distraction from the B&W, or is just some snap for information or to record something, and easily done with a cell phone. Most serious color work tends to be commercial or decorative which I do with a Leica S(006). I've remained unconvinced that CMOS M or S cameras offer anything more than I already have or need, and in fact still hold the opinion that the CCD versions better serve my visual tastes. Not having to "upgrade" and purchase an $8,000 M and $18,000 S doesn't break my heart either.:clap:
- Marc

:eek: I know, I know, Marc, I promise you I was just kidding :thumbup:

:lecture: that said, my telephonophobia is real - at least if the telephone has a built-in camera ... :shocked:
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member

(...) Sad it is maybe only for Nikon :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Hmm, or could it be that what Alex meant to say was that it is a sad trend (with the telephones taking over) ... ?

In that case, Tom, it might hurt a couple of other brands as well in the long run, perhaps even your own preferred system (= mount).

I apologize, Alex, for the confusion caused, in case my interpretation of your remark is wrong
:lecture:
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Sad it is maybe only for Nikon :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Doubtful Peter. The first batch sold out immediately. What I did notice is there was not as large of rush to get on this bandwagon, but I suspect a lot of that was for the same reason I paused -- wanting to make certain I was not a Beta-tester this time around... I will get one, and I'm sure once the pipeline fills it will be a strong seller both here and abroad. And the 4K video features may be responsible for well over half its market share...

What is sad is the condition of the institution of photography itself. --- Here I do believe the number of folks that actually carry -- nay, OWN -- any sort of dedicated camera has dwindled to almost nothing due to cell phones being "so darn good." Photography itself won't be a lost art anytime soon, but creating static images with a dedicated camera of any sort may soon be.

Moreover, as everything moves to a more and more digital world, paper (or glass or aluminum) printed with anything on it may be the actual lost art... I have not sold an actual print in over a year, and made only a handful of custom ones for people last year. In 10 more years, I suspect wall-sized lcd panels capable of holding millions of images and thousands or tens of thousands of video clips will sell for a few hundred dollars, and that will mark the end of the printed medium forever, at least other than for purely artistic purposes...

/cynical rant
 
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