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D850

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Doubtful Peter. The first batch sold out immediately. What I did notice is there was not as large of rush to get on this bandwagon, but I suspect a lot of that was for the same reason I paused -- wanting to make certain I was not a Beta-tester this time around... I will get one, and I'm sure once the pipeline fills it will be a strong seller both here and abroad. And the 4K video features may be responsible for well over half its market share...

What is sad is the condition of the institution of photography itself. --- Here I do believe the number of folks that actually carry -- nay, OWN -- any sort of dedicated camera has dwindled to almost nothing due to cell phones being "so darn good." Photography itself won't be a lost art anytime soon, but creating static images with a dedicated camera of any sort may soon be.

Moreover, as everything moves to a more and more digital world, paper (or glass or aluminum) printed with anything on it may be the actual lost art... I have not sold an actual print in over a year, and made only a handful of custom ones for people last year. In 10 more years, I suspect wall-sized lcd panels capable of holding millions of images and thousands or tens of thousands of video clips will sell for a few hundred dollars, and that will mark the end of the printed medium forever, at least other than for purely artistic purposes...

/cynical rant
Jack,

I do agree with what you say (rant;)) and this will come sooner than later. As I said I am meanwhile doing quite a lot of video (most times 4k) where the systems I use both excel, the D850 would as well but not with such minimalistic config as I can do - means it is definitely perfect for pro-quality video, but then you need to rig it up and this definitely is NOT what I am looking for as I am by no means a pro nor do I want to become one.

The D850 is a perfect fit for those who are (still) invested in Nikon (glass) but this is neither the case for me, nor I think for many other enthusiasts or amateurs. Mind you a lot of them switched over the past few years, mostly to mirrorless. And I would like to bet whenever the Nikon FF mirrorless comes to market next year a lot of the D850 buyers will look and lust for this next great tool, only that then it will represent much more photography of the next decade than the D850 ever can be - just my 5c.

In the end I do really hope for Nikon that they have huge success with that D850!
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Doubtful Peter. The first batch sold out immediately. What I did notice is there was not as large of rush to get on this bandwagon, but I suspect a lot of that was for the same reason I paused -- wanting to make certain I was not a Beta-tester this time around... I will get one, and I'm sure once the pipeline fills it will be a strong seller both here and abroad. And the 4K video features may be responsible for well over half its market share...

What is sad is the condition of the institution of photography itself. --- Here I do believe the number of folks that actually carry -- nay, OWN -- any sort of dedicated camera has dwindled to almost nothing due to cell phones being "so darn good." Photography itself won't be a lost art anytime soon, but creating static images with a dedicated camera of any sort may soon be.

Moreover, as everything moves to a more and more digital world, paper (or glass or aluminum) printed with anything on it may be the actual lost art... I have not sold an actual print in over a year, and made only a handful of custom ones for people last year. In 10 more years, I suspect wall-sized lcd panels capable of holding millions of images and thousands or tens of thousands of video clips will sell for a few hundred dollars, and that will mark the end of the printed medium forever, at least other than for purely artistic purposes...

/cynical rant
That will all be after I die. Instead of buying a D850, I just bought a mint Mamiya 645 Pro with a likewise mint 80mm f/1.9, 2 film backs and 4 inserts plus a 150mm f/3.5, all this for under $1,000. The GX8 and GM5 are doing very well for the little paid work that I do nowadays, so I may just as well enjoy film for my photography hobby. New, interesting emulsions are emerging all the time now, and I want to try them all :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
None of this is helping Nikon. Alex is right after all. Sad.

That will all be after I die. Instead of buying a D850, I just bought a mint Mamiya 645 Pro with a likewise mint 80mm f/1.9, 2 film backs and 4 inserts plus a 150mm f/3.5, all this for under $1,000. The GX8 and GM5 are doing very well for the little paid work that I do nowadays, so I may just as well enjoy film for my photography hobby. New, interesting emulsions are emerging all the time now, and I want to try them all :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
None of this is helping Nikon. Alex is right after all. Sad.
If I'm going to help Nikon, Nikon has to help me by making a product that I need. A full frame mirrorless would be nice, preferably one with as few features as possible. A restart of the Coolscan 9000 production would be nice also. Currently, used ones are selling for around $3,000, 50% more than what they used to cost new. I wouldn't mind a good quality film camera, somewhat smaller than the F6, along the lines of the F80.

One can always dream :rolleyes:

Consumerism has been going on for so long now that there isn't a real need for producing more gadgets at all. There are enough unused cameras and other electronic devices to cover the needs of most people for many years to come. As for myself, I have more important priorities than keeping the electronics industry alive. For the time being, I'll leave that to others.
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
IMHO this has become a sad thread - when loads of alternatives are discussed - rather than the matter of the topic thread.
How the times are a changing....... zero excitement to celebrate a new release -how different when compared to the release of the D800.
This is not a disease singularly affecting Nikon.......rather a syndrome signaling a turning point in photography as we knew it.....EVFs etc are not going to slow this decline....... may as well join the masses and embrace the iPhone X........:toocool:
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
I don't share all the excitement about mirrorless. I tried it and I don't like it. I also have a pro videocam with a pretty good LCD and a EVF. The EVF is just useless. The pretty small LCD (just like on any other pro DSLR) is .. small, not enough. I'm buying an external recorder with 7" 1500 nit screen. Now, I see DoP in Hollywood don't use a small LCD/EVF either. So, there is a point here.. And I really do NOT get it about A7rii.

Now, as to sad thread - where's your youth inside of you? Come on, get out with your gear and make some noise! :)))) I'm planning that when I get my D850 (it's just not that easy anymore money-wise, but doable). What's better to take a camera and fly somewhere to France, Spain, Italy, or any place where it feels like Travel? Fun!
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
Alex, thanks for the post. I have 2 EVF cameras and don't like them much either......
But I'm having a load of fun with the D500 hiking in the Dolomites.....:thumbs:
Look forward to your pics.

:cool:
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Not all things drop in value over time to be bought for 1/10th original. Consumerism also very much is based on the “half off”, “sale”, etc. trend. ;)

If I'm going to help Nikon, Nikon has to help me by making a product that I need. A full frame mirrorless would be nice, preferably one with as few features as possible. A restart of the Coolscan 9000 production would be nice also. Currently, used ones are selling for around $3,000, 50% more than what they used to cost new. I wouldn't mind a good quality film camera, somewhat smaller than the F6, along the lines of the F80.

One can always dream :rolleyes:

Consumerism has been going on for so long now that there isn't a real need for producing more gadgets at all. There are enough unused cameras and other electronic devices to cover the needs of most people for many years to come. As for myself, I have more important priorities than keeping the electronics industry alive. For the time being, I'll leave that to others.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Nikon obviously taking mirrorless pretty serious

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/10/10/nikon-mirrorless-camera-rumors-speculations-and-predictions.aspx/


  • One Nikon DX and one FX mirrorless cameras will be introduced (maybe not at the same time) - see all the FX and DX lens patents that were filed in the last past few years.
  • New mirrorless mount - this is pretty much the consensus based on all the tips I have received.
  • Several new mirrorless lenses will be launched together with the new camera(s).
  • Two different sensor resolutions: 21MP (probably the D500 sensor) and 45MP (probably the D850 sensor). Nikon is still considering to drop the DX version and go full frame only for their mirrorless solution.
  • I already mentioned that Nikon is putting a lot of effort in making a new adapter for Nikon F-mount lenses to work with the new mirrorless mount.
  • Another area where Nikon is putting a lot of effort, research and money is the viewfinder - power consumption, lag, resolution, refresh rate, etc. which are all areas Nikon thinks need serious improvements. I was told that this is where Nikon is expected to be better than the competition and this was one of the main reasons they did not join the mirrorless market earlier (Nikon talked about a professional Nikon mirrorless camera back in 2014). The expectation is that if a DSLR user (OVF) picks up a Nikon mirrorless camera with an EVF, they should not notice any difference and the transitions should be seamless.
  • The official Nikon mirrorless camera announcement is still expected in 2018, I have no other details.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Doubtful Peter. The first batch sold out immediately. What I did notice is there was not as large of rush to get on this bandwagon, but I suspect a lot of that was for the same reason I paused -- wanting to make certain I was not a Beta-tester this time around... I will get one, and I'm sure once the pipeline fills it will be a strong seller both here and abroad. And the 4K video features may be responsible for well over half its market share...

What is sad is the condition of the institution of photography itself. --- Here I do believe the number of folks that actually carry -- nay, OWN -- any sort of dedicated camera has dwindled to almost nothing due to cell phones being "so darn good." Photography itself won't be a lost art anytime soon, but creating static images with a dedicated camera of any sort may soon be.

Moreover, as everything moves to a more and more digital world, paper (or glass or aluminum) printed with anything on it may be the actual lost art... I have not sold an actual print in over a year, and made only a handful of custom ones for people last year. In 10 more years, I suspect wall-sized lcd panels capable of holding millions of images and thousands or tens of thousands of video clips will sell for a few hundred dollars, and that will mark the end of the printed medium forever, at least other than for purely artistic purposes...

/cynical rant
Samsung are marketing what they call the 'frame' - a 55 or 65 inch 4K TV/Monitor which automatically senses movement in a room and goes to 'gallery mode' or TV mode depending on user preference. I am installing one in my lobby and using it exactly as you suggested will happen I 'm also promoting a picture of the month competition amongst staff - the phone cameras are ubiquitous by definition but some get interested in 'real cameras' once they start looking at photographs...

I'm bullish the future of photography - but equipment required will change - see Google's latest gadget for people with pets and children.
 
That will all be after I die. Instead of buying a D850, I just bought a mint Mamiya 645 Pro with a likewise mint 80mm f/1.9, 2 film backs and 4 inserts plus a 150mm f/3.5, all this for under $1,000. The GX8 and GM5 are doing very well for the little paid work that I do nowadays, so I may just as well enjoy film for my photography hobby. New, interesting emulsions are emerging all the time now, and I want to try them all :)
Jorgen,
I see that you are based in Pattaya, Chon Buri. We spend about three-four months every winter in Thailand. I usually have my Fuji GA645zi with me every trip.

If you don't mind to share a bit of local knowledge
Where you have your 120 film developed and scanned?

Thanks.
Yevgeny
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Sorry for my negativism. This is neither the place nor the time. I'm probably as excited about this great, new camera as anybody. Unfortunately, that was also my worry, but I'll let that rest for now. Nikon is certainly not the worst culprit, and they make some great stuff, including the lovely F6.

I do wish they would start making scanners again though :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Jorgen,
I see that you are based in Pattaya, Chon Buri. We spend about three-four months every winter in Thailand. I usually have my Fuji GA645zi with me every trip.

If you don't mind to share a bit of local knowledge
Where you have your 120 film developed and scanned?

Thanks.
Yevgeny
Several new, good quality labs have appeared lately, all in Bangkok. The best one, although somewhat expensive, is probably Patani Studio:

https://web.facebook.com/patanistudio/?ref=br_rs

Then there's one called Positive Lab+. They pick up and deliver regularly at AV Camera, my regular hangout:

https://web.facebook.com/Positive-Lab-by-neno-camera-1550539298579344/?_rdc=1&_rdr

https://web.facebook.com/nenocamera?_rdc=1&_rdr

https://web.facebook.com/AVCamera/

http://www.avcamera.com/

Finally there's Airlab, which is cheaper than the others. I haven't tried them yet myself, but another forum member has, and they're OK.

https://web.facebook.com/airlabbkk/

http://www.airlabbkk.com/home.htm

All of them offer mailing services, and with Patani, I can download scans in tiff format as soon as they are ready. Very convenient.

There are many others also, even some local ones that do C-41 only. Somebody told me that a small lab on Third Road in Pattaya still does C-41, although the quality may be questionable.

Patani btw. hand develops all rolls individually and can do special processes like CMS 20/Adotech. Pushing and pulling is obviously no problem either.
 
Thank you very much indeed.
I will try Patani then.

Wonderful community here.

Yevgeny
Several new, good quality labs have appeared lately, all in Bangkok. The best one, although somewhat expensive, is probably Patani Studio:
...

All of them offer mailing services, and with Patani, I can download scans in tiff format as soon as they are ready. Very convenient.

There are many others also, even some local ones that do C-41 only. Somebody told me that a small lab on Third Road in Pattaya still does C-41, although the quality may be questionable.

Patani btw. hand develops all rolls individually and can do special processes like CMS 20/Adotech. Pushing and pulling is obviously no problem either.
 

DB5

Member
I've looked at quite a few raw files from the D850. While impressive, they are still not a match for my IQ180. I suppose most of you aren't surprised by that. Of course it has a lot of capabilities that the IQ180 doesn't have.

So though I could downsize to the Nikon I don't think I will. Those IQ180 files are just too awesome by comparison.
I appreciate and share the sentiment and desire to find the silver bullet that replaces medium format. Don't think it's every going to come though. However, and a seriously major however is that Medium format cameras will have to change to compete with these new systems though - they're clearly starting to do that. Until such time that a phase one and iq180 sort of set up is as easy to use as a Nikon D850 then the jury on its future is out I'm afraid. When these new cameras are producing images as decent as they are, the tide of "it's good enough" is going to swamp the likes of Phase One and the die hards amongst us won't be enough to support it, I already suggest that is happening. The benefits no doubt are obvious to me, but I don't think the rest of the world could care any less. I cast my mind back not that long ago when the very greatest was a 22MP CCD back on a dinosaur of a body with mostly average lenses. They were the pinnacle at the time and the IQ that in many ways was the bench mark. It worked for the largest of billboards. While these new 35mm cameras can never replace the medium format aesthetic, they well and truly exceed the cameras of those time in almost every other way and even are very close to the younger P45 era. While much in the world has changed - our levels of acceptability certainly haven't, and that is far more so for 99% of the population.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Excellent photos, Bernhard. You must really have a good camera, who can take such beautiful pictures :ROTFL:

No, no, really, they are excellent, and the detail in the foliage... even at web resolution, one can feel that there's a lot of detail there.
 
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