Leave Leica SL for D850

[Udo]

I will come back to this thread with some more thoughts. At some point, MP count becomes nearly irrelevant. If for you that point happens to be 24MP or less, then I believe the SL is a great option. For me, 24 is good enough for most things, but getting over 30MP adds a smoothness that isn't present at 24 in *my* humble opinion.

I am in the same boat here. A Nikon D5 is my 'go-to' camera with a similar resolution as the SL. But I have to admit to prefer the look of a (36-to-21) Mpix or (45-to-21) Mpix down sampled capture in some situations. And with the added D5-features the D850 is a very well featured/balanced camera. Just my thoughts on this.

Regards, Udo

 

[BlinkingEye]

I actually had expected that Nikon would make the D850 with some integrated EVF (aka Hybrid VF). Unfortunately that did not happen.........

Why would you think Nikon would risk an EVF in a professional workhorse camera. Nikon could not risk it.

When we see an EVF from Nikon it will be in a low level DSLR-ish replacement camera, for say the D3xxx series - for proof of concept - or a dedicated mirrorless camera.

 

[Jack]

Why would you think Nikon would risk an EVF in a professional workhorse camera. Nikon could not risk it.

When we see an EVF from Nikon it will be in a low level DSLR-ish replacement camera, for say the D3xxx series - for proof of concept - or a dedicated mirrorless camera.

Agree. EVF is a nicety in some instances -- mostly video -- so active LV in the existing LCD would be interesting. My guess is *IF* we see anything from Nikon, we will see a FF mirrorless/LV -- if only for an added point of sale for their lenses and not to directly compete with Sony in a diminishing market...

Which brings me to my ultimate point: Photography as we know it -- a "static" art form -- is dying before our eyes. 4K video "live-stills" are replacing stills in most online content, and in fact 40-inch displays that can contain and cycle through thousands of them are significantly cheaper than a single large format printer. And a modern cell phone is good enough to (and does!) create them, AND most have pretty remarkable on-board editing and special-effect apps! You really don't need a computer with software to create good art photography anymore...

Given this line of thought -- and I hate to say it -- the D850 may be my last camera. Heck, now that I'm thinking this way, maybe the D810 should be my last camera...

...

 

[jrp]

I still have all my Nikon gear but, rationally, I should sell it. The Leica SL sensor is a notch below the Nikon, but if you cannot focus as accurately as the fast Nikkors require, the point is moot (focus shift, adjustment requirements, etc). Shame, as I really like the (slightly unsharp) 58mm f1.4, for example.

Jim Kasson has similar findings on Sony v Nikon: http://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/a7riii-and-d850-use-comparison/ although the Sony focusing capability is better than the Leica's.

I sometimes try to use fast primes on the SL, but really the zooms are so good and have OS, that I usually feel that there is not much point in doing so. The very narrow depth of field is often counterproductive.

 

[Vivek]

I still have all my Nikon gear but, rationally, I should sell it. The Leica SL sensor is a notch below the Nikon, but if you cannot focus as accurately as the fast Nikkors require, the point is moot (focus shift, adjustment requirements, etc). Shame, as I really like the (slightly unsharp) 58mm f1.4, for example.

Jim Kasson has similar findings on Sony v Nikon: http://blog.kasson.com/a7riii/a7riii-and-d850-use-comparison/ although the Sony focusing capability is better than the Leica's.

I sometimes try to use fast primes on the SL, but really the zooms are so good and have OS, that I usually feel that there is not much point in doing so. The very narrow depth of field is often counterproductive.

Over at the FM forum, people have posted samples from the 105/1.4, etc with AF on Sony cams. Focus off the sensor plane plus all the better extra pixels!

 

[Frankly]

No digital Leicas but I do have the Nikon 105/1.4e and 28/1.4e and three 8xx bodies. They work superbly and no cherry picking or warranty issues, I must have gotten lemons? Or perhaps Internet forums magnify complaints?

I also manually focus my Zeiss lenses on the D810 and have no complaints. Granted focusing the Zeiss 135/2 was an iffier proposition but I'd expect it to be.

Somehow I prefer the optical finder. I like to shoot movement and action with these cameras and no EVF I've tried works as well. I’d love to review images from the finder in bright sun but that’s secondary to getting the images in the first place.

For me the only problem with Nikon is that they don't make a good 50mm... I'd pay any price (almost) to replace my manual only Zeiss with a fast, accurate autofocusing Nikon on par with the other e lenses.

Not that I’m a Nikon fan boy, I complain about other dumb Nikon things regularly. I avoided the D800 fiasco (I just picked up a “good” D800 for use in a water housing for only $700, that’s 98% of of the best camera ever made for not very much!)

A Leica SL makes sense if you have a bunch of interesting manual lenses. Beyond that I don’t see the point?

 

[Jack]

Happy 2018!

I'm not missing having the D850 yet. I've yet to see any image from it where the 1/3rd more pixels translates into a significantly more detailed or more important to me, a smoother file than the D810. In fact, right now I'm smiling to myself about not spending the money I will likely still get one when the mood strikes, but it's the first time in a long time I'm not chomping at the bit for the newest cam. I need another body, but perhaps just a D810 -- again unless I can see where the 1/3rd more pixels actually translates to a smoother final file :bugeyes: And I've made the decision to get back to shooting mostly in mono -- which is how I mostly shot with my Leica M film bodies and really enjoyed the results much more than color. #interestingtimes ... thinkingthinkingthinking...

 

[Frankly]

Happy 2018!

I'm not missing having the D850 yet. I've yet to see any image from it where the 1/3rd more pixels translates into a significantly more detailed or more important to me, a smoother file than the D810. In fact, right now I'm smiling to myself about not spending the money I will likely still get one when the mood strikes, but it's the first time in a long time I'm not chomping at the bit for the newest cam. I need another body, but perhaps just a D810 -- again unless I can see where the 1/3rd more pixels actually translates to a smoother final file :bugeyes: And I've made the decision to get back to shooting mostly in mono -- which is how I mostly shot with my Leica M film bodies and really enjoyed the results much more than color. #interestingtimes ... thinkingthinkingthinking...

As nice as the D850 seems to be, the D810 is so good that this could be a cycle to skip.

Besides when Nikon does release a winner it takes a year for the supply chain to catch up. I will certainly never rush to pay a premium on a new product to do Nikon's quality control work for them.

Likely whatever comes after the D850 will have wifi and focus stacking, lens calibration features further refined. The AF will be even better and even if they use the same chip they usually figure out how to get more range out of it.... More than pure resolution, those are the reasons I'd want a newer Nikon body. Usually when they do a subsequent evolutionary update like D600>D610 or D300>D300s, D800>D810 they fix the warts and make a solid buy... A D850II would probably be a real keeper.

 

[Jack]

the D810 is so good that this could be a cycle to skip.

I for one do believe that still photography is effectively a dead art, at least at the quality level that applies to printed and hung work -- so skipping means done . Web stills and 4K stills will likely prevail to a small degree, but I foresee more and more video clips and fewer and fewer stills becoming the standard for websites whether they be advertising, news or special interest oriented. And as I said before, cell phones can deliver this content easily right now. Crap, the more I repeat this point, the more sense it makes to me, and the less desire I have to invest in another large camera...

 

[ptomsu]

I for one do believe that still photography is effectively a dead art, at least at the quality level that applies to printed and hung work -- so skipping means done . Web stills and 4K stills will likely prevail to a small degree, but I foresee more and more video clips and fewer and fewer stills becoming the standard for websites whether they be advertising, news or special interest oriented. And as I said before, cell phones can deliver this content easily right now. Crap, the more I repeat this point, the more sense it makes to me, and the less desire I have to invest in another large camera...

Get the iPhoneX and call it a day, I ordered mine back in November already, but still waiting ....

BTW - if you want a small camera the Panasonic Lumix G9 is an excellent option

 

[Shashin]

In fact, right now I'm smiling to myself about not spending the money I will likely still get one when the mood strikes, but it's the first time in a long time I'm not chomping at the bit for the newest cam.

Has the world gone mad? For heaven's sake, don't let a site administrator see you write that! Is this to become Don'tGetDPI or DPI_Whatever?

Actually, I am in the same boat. I even stepped "down" and went for an APS-C system--the Fuji X Pro2. I can get very nice 40" prints from that camera. And if I can get there, what more do I really need? A 60" printer?

This kind of reminds me of flavoring to taste. You keep adding a bit more sugar to the mix, but, since you don't really notice the impact of just a little more sugar, you end up with something too sweet. I am starting to think photographers are the worst people to judge photographic quality. Remember when the p25 digital back with 22MP was the pinnacle of professional photographic quality? I can now exceed that with APS-C in many regards.

Buy what gives you pleasure, the rest is just frosting.

 

[Jack]

Get the iPhoneX and call it a day,

I've had mine for about a month already. And IMHO it is a major improvement as both smart-phone and camera...

 

[Godfrey]

Hmm. "Still photography is dead"... Doesn't feel right to me.

But what do I know? I've wanted to do motion since I was in high school, but have and still do 99% still photography. There are no limits to the number of expressive things that can be done in still photographs. And similarly with motion. It's just a matter of what I choose to do.

 

[ptomsu]

I've had mine for about a month already. And IMHO it is a major improvement as both smart-phone and camera...

Great to hear, as mine should arrive hopefully soon!

 

[AlexLF]

Hmm. "Still photography is dead"... Doesn't feel right to me.

But what do I know? I've wanted to do motion since I was in high school, but have and still do 99% still photography. There are no limits to the number of expressive things that can be done in still photographs. And similarly with motion. It's just a matter of what I choose to do.

Interestingly, I've never been interested in video and always been fond of photography. But a year ago I got myself a pretty expensive toy - 4k cam + related stuff to record my daughter's events in school and musicals. And I now kind of understand the amount of work one needs to do to make something really beautiful in video. Pity I don't have that much time. And I decided to go with Nikon 850 (since I sold my D800 2 years ago). I'd still love to make some good shots and D850 seems to be the best tool for it.

 

[Paratom]

My last Nikon was the df which I liked a lot.
Advantages of the SL I see:
+I prefer the user interface
+I think its great I can use my M lenses (even though its mainly the 21/3.4 or Noctilux/1.0 I would use besides the SL lenses)
+I love the range of the 24-90

Of course there is a much wider selection of lenses available for Nikon and I am sure the D850 is a great camera.
For my part I prefer the user interface of the SL though.
SO I think besides lenses it comes down to:
do you prefer OVD or EVF?
do you also want to use M lenses or other manual focus lenses or you dont care?

And I have to say it: I still think there is something like a Leica look in regards of bokeh and color. For me the Leica images I dont have to tweak much in post. I just like how they come out.

As a whole system the Nikon is ertainly much more complete. specially in the tele range.