Nikon mirrorless ?

[Paul2660]

No pixel shift opportunities either.

Just realized why. You only get the 5 axis with the new lenses from Nikon. When you use the adapter to fit all existing F mount, you drop to 3 axis, so I guess they felt it was not possible.

Paul C

 

[Vivek]

Peter, You can start using your Noct right away with a Techart adapter and a Sony A7III with auto focus!

 

[k-hawinkler]

Peter, You can start using your Noct right away with a Techart adapter and a Sony A7III with auto focus!

and Eye-AF, certainly on the A9 with the latest firmware update IIRC.

 

[iiiNelson]

The Nikon's would have been a decent answer back in 2016 - 2017 was already too late because Sony launched the A9.

Also agree they should have some high end pro model in the works like a Z9. Would make sense.

But that does not change anything WRT that Nikon is at least 2 years late to the party.

One note WRT the .95/50 - this is said to be MF only. What a waste if that is true. What benefit does it than have above a Leica .95/Noctilux (maybe except price). Makes me think I just should get a used M10 with EVF as soon as some folks step up to the M10-P and start using my wonderful 1/50 Noctilux :clap:

I don’t disagree with you but to be objectively fair, they had to start somewhere. Looking at a few of the impressions of the camera it seems comparable to the cameras that were around when they likely started development time 2-3 years ago and added recent features mid-development.

Like others, I will reserve final judgement for when I hold one in my own hands but many of the “issues” that I thought would be present (like placement of the function buttons) are present from a design standpoint. DPReview mentioned an issue with the focus turning the “wrong way” but Nikon shooters will likely be used to this.

 

[biglouis]

"significantly smaller than the G9"

Jorgen, I think the correct expression is 'marginally' smaller (in some dimensions) and it is actually marginally heavier than the G9.

What I think will eventually distinguish these two camera systems is the size of the lenses. I can't see how the Nikon will avoid the same issues as with the Sony A series that the lenses will become gargantuan and offer no real weight savings over m43rds.

I think it is great that Nikon has produced a mirrorless camera but I don't think the price point will attract away m43rds shooters and the lack of lenses will probably diminish the attraction in the near term.

I was really hoping for a mirrorless Nikon with the current mount. If that had been the case I would have been seriously interested in going from my G9/Lumix 200 combination for birding to the a Nikon mirrorless with the 300/4 PF. As it is, I'll just stay where I am.

Let's see what Canon do.

LouisB

 

[seb]

I don't see why people see all that black and white. These are their first Z-mount bodies. Nothing wrong when they are just comparable to the class leaders and show some minor issues.

As an enthusiast without a Sony FF-MILC, I would really consider the Z7 or Z6 now.

As a pro without an FF-MILC, I would wait until they deliver the lenses I need. No matter if there are two card slots and longer battery capabilities.

For all those pros with Nikon glass, they have competitive DSLRs already and can wait another 2 years and see how the new system grow. Some may add a Z7 to their hardware for fun, some silent shooting or video.

 

[iiiNelson]

I don't see why people see all that black and white. These are their first Z-mount bodies. Nothing wrong when they are just comparable to the class leaders and show some minor issues.

As an enthusiast without a Sony FF-MILC, I would really consider the Z7 or Z6 now.

As a pro without an FF-MILC, I would wait until they deliver the lenses I need. No matter if there are two card slots and longer battery capabilities.

For all those pros with Nikon glass, they have competitive DSLRs already and can wait another 2 years and see how the new system grow. Some may add a Z7 to their hardware for fun, some silent shooting or video.

Video is where I see this being an option for existing Nikon users though I would’ve expected them to offer 4k60p.

 

[iiiNelson]

"significantly smaller than the G9"

Jorgen, I think the correct expression is 'marginally' smaller (in some dimensions) and it is actually marginally heavier than the G9.

What I think will eventually distinguish these two camera systems is the size of the lenses. I can't see how the Nikon will avoid the same issues as with the Sony A series that the lenses will become gargantuan and offer no real weight savings over m43rds.

I think it is great that Nikon has produced a mirrorless camera but I don't think the price point will attract away m43rds shooters and the lack of lenses will probably diminish the attraction in the near term.

I was really hoping for a mirrorless Nikon with the current mount. If that had been the case I would have been seriously interested in going from my G9/Lumix 200 combination for birding to the a Nikon mirrorless with the 300/4 PF. As it is, I'll just stay where I am.

Let's see what Canon do.

LouisB

I don’t know how great this camera would be for birding and wildlife with a buffer of 18 shots in uncompressed RAW or 23 for compressed (Z7) and bumps up to 43 (with the Z6). Also it would seem you only get full functionality of the newer lenses (~90 lenses) with adapter but the old ones are manual focus AE conformation only.

I agree that the Micro 4/3 Cameras and lenses will be significantly smaller. That 58/0.95 has a 82mm filter thread size and the 24-70/4 matches the Sony version with a 72mm filter thread size. In reality this camera seems to be about the same size as the XH1 (which is great IMO) but it’s comparable in size to nearly every other Mirrorless camera in reality.

 

[glenerrolrd]

It's not much of a limitation for adapted lenses designed for a longer flange to sensor distance, since the exit pupil will be further from the lens mount. It is however a limitation if you want to design an ultrafast lens that utilises the shorter flange distance. Sigma has already stated that this is a problem, and there are as far as I know no f/1.0 or faster lenses available that are native to E-mount.

The advantage of the A7's small size falls quickly to the ground if lenses have to be made longer to create the necessary distance.

When it comes to size in general, both Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji and Sony have made their top models larger the last few years, probably due to customer demand. The new Nikon cameras fall in the middle of this, being almost exactly the same size as the E-M1 II, although with a taller "prism" house.

Edit: It's also worth remembering that the narrow F-mount is one of the reason for Nikon not being able to design an f/1.2 lens for that mount. The excellent Samyang 50 and 85mm f/1.2 are not available in F-mount for the same reason. They are currently only being made for EF-mount.

Fuji increased the size of their top cameras to improve the durability and add pro features ....got this straight from Fuji .

 

[glenerrolrd]

Not surprised in the slightest by the announced specifications . They follow directly from Nikon s approach over the last 10 years . They borrow the best from previously announced models and maintain a keen eye on keeping costs competitive . You cant fault the sensor technology utilized ...its the best (others may be as capable but no one stands out as sufficiently superior ) .

Also as expected Nikon has been conservative basically matching the Sony A7 ...but providing those capabilities in a Nikon body .

The lenses will be my biggest question ...they launched with a kit zoom and a few F1.8 primes ..all under $1K ...makes it hard to believe they will match the best Nikkors ..like the 28/1.4 or the 105/1.4 . Those of course can be used with the adapter ...but that seems to marginalize the size advantage .

Appears to be a consumer oriented launch as expected . Will be sold out for a long time .

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Are you comfortable with the 310 shot CIPA rating on battery life on the Z6? Is that enough battery life for you? Seemed to be a deal breaker in the past but maybe your shooting needs have changed.

No, it isn't and it would have been a no-go if I still shot professionally. Then I would have chosen a D850 over one of these, or even a D810. It's still a hassle when travelling, but apart from the Panasonic GH5 and G9, there are no ways around this in the mirrorless world. Unfortunately, the GH5 and G9 are both larger than the new Nikons, except if we take telephoto lenses into account.

I'm a bit surprised about the short battery life actually, since these cameras use the same battery as the Nikon DSLR bodies. I hope they'll find a way to save energy and prolong the number of shots.

I just spent 5 nights at a hotel in Sri Lanka where the room had one single outlet for all my charging needs. Luckily, my phone has a 6,000 mAh battery, but with two battery chargers and a MacBook, it was a rather big bunch of spaghetti dangling from the wall. This is an important Achilles heel of mirrorless cameras, and I hate carrying that little bag of extra batteries wherever I go. I'm not in the market for a new camera until next year, and battery life plus system weight are major considerations. I might even end up with a DSLR again.

 

[Jack]

The question for me has just become, the D850 or the Z6?

 

[iiiNelson]

The question for me has just become, the D850 or the Z6?

Why not the Z7? May be easier to obtain than the D850... and maybe this is why there’s a D850 shortage... they’re expecting a large order of Z7’s which may just be easier and cheaper to make.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The question for me has just become, the D850 or the Z6?

Here's a new word from my extended English vocabulary :chug:

 

[iiiNelson]

No, it isn't and it would have been a no-go if I still shot professionally. Then I would have chosen a D850 over one of these, or even a D810. It's still a hassle when travelling, but apart from the Panasonic GH5 and G9, there are no ways around this in the mirrorless world. Unfortunately, the GH5 and G9 are both larger than the new Nikons, except if we take telephoto lenses into account.

I'm a bit surprised about the short battery life actually, since these cameras use the same battery as the Nikon DSLR bodies. I hope they'll find a way to save energy and prolong the number of shots.

I just spent 5 nights at a hotel in Sri Lanka where the room had one single outlet for all my charging needs. Luckily, my phone has a 6,000 mAh battery, but with two battery chargers and a MacBook, it was a rather big bunch of spaghetti dangling from the wall. This is an important Achilles heel of mirrorless cameras, and I hate carrying that little bag of extra batteries wherever I go. I'm not in the market for a new camera until next year, and battery life plus system weight are major considerations. I might even end up with a DSLR again.

Well in my 10 year Mirrorless experience battery banks are your friend. In reality to I’ve always been careful with what and how I ahoot generally speaking and even with the old style Sony batteries and a grip I can get through a day of shooting with one set of batteries (5-800 shots) and still have battery life left at the end of the day. I went on a safari back in 2014 and was in a similar situation where the lodge rooms had limited power options but I have a twin charger and a couple single wall chargers as well to charge up to 4 batteries at a time.

The biggest battery drain was always the wireless radios being powered but you usually can get about 50% more battery by putting your camera in airplane mode in my experience so I could regularly get 4-500 shots even on an old style Sony battery if I was being smart and twice that much with the grip. Obviously the newer batteries are far better and some are reporting 1-2000 shots per battery but I still own the older generation 1 and 2 cameras for now. Perhaps I’ll switch to the newer generation A9 if/when it comes but I was just curious about how you felt regarding battery life.

 

[iiiNelson]

Not surprised in the slightest by the announced specifications . They follow directly from Nikon s approach over the last 10 years . They borrow the best from previously announced models and maintain a keen eye on keeping costs competitive . You cant fault the sensor technology utilized ...its the best (others may be as capable but no one stands out as sufficiently superior ) .

Also as expected Nikon has been conservative basically matching the Sony A7 ...but providing those capabilities in a Nikon body .

The lenses will be my biggest question ...they launched with a kit zoom and a few F1.8 primes ..all under $1K ...makes it hard to believe they will match the best Nikkors ..like the 28/1.4 or the 105/1.4 . Those of course can be used with the adapter ...but that seems to marginalize the size advantage .

Appears to be a consumer oriented launch as expected . Will be sold out for a long time .

I thought maybe an update to their 24-120/4 for the Z-mount would be a much more useful lens than a 24-70/4. I think it may turn out to be a good choice to focus on f/1.8 lenses for general purpose initially (especially if they perform excellently from wide open) though I know most will prefer f/1.4 or faster. I probably would’ve preferred they launched the 20mm or 24mm and the 85 before the 58/0.95 because I think they’d be more useful to a wider range of people but I digress. The lens roadmap looks good and similar to the Sony E-mount one at launch.

 

[Duff photographer]

Well, I am most disappointed with the specs! It doesn't hover, doesn't take the photo for me, and most importantly it doesn't pick my nose for me! This is a deal breaker in my book.

In all seriousness, I will await observations based on in-hand and in-the-field experience. I am a Nikon body user but I'm not loyal to the brand (I mix my lenses up - Nikon telephotos, Schneiders, and Zeiss ZFs).

One of my gripes with DSLRs in general was the inability, on frequent occasions, to focus manual lenses due to the dreadful viewfinders. I will be very interested to see how the EVF performs, say compared with the current best (Leica SL). The other gripe was the longer-than-most backflange for a DSLR which restricted the use of adapted lenses as well as (in theory) their function. A mirrorless camera allows these things. This is not specific to a manufacturer of course but Nikon now having one is the main news for me. As someone who tries to make money, swapping sytems wasn't an option - very uneconomical to do so, and in part impractical.

With part of my photography including wildlife (needing those telephotos), an eye will also be on how well the FTZ adapter performs. I don't expect the lenses to perform better, I just want them to perform as they do on a DSLR, e.g., no image degradation caused by the adapter, and at least a reliable AF performance.


...oh yeah, and I hope image quality is also good. Forgot about that one!

Duff

 

[k-hawinkler]

Question:

Do the 2 cameras have an electronic shutter?
If yes, what’s the sensor readout time?

 

[Vivek]

My guess is that the Z6 has the A7III sensor and I expect similar performance.

Question:

Do the 2 cameras have an electronic shutter?
If yes, what’s the sensor readout time?

 

[Thorkil]

The question for me has just become, the D850 or the Z6?

..your knees and shoulder will prefer a Z6 and your hard disk too, Jack.
Your hand will like the Z6 and your brain will not moan about bulk,
and will be delighted about the actual visual and functional appearance in real life,
as opposite to the bit disappointing pictures. It shines when its in your hands, I think.
thorkil