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Thread: Nikon mirrorless ?

  1. #651
    Senior Member Frankly's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    If you can get thru this review, he says anyone is 1000% insane to buy this over a D850. Around the 15 minute mark

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r19prJVWOXA&t=54s
    Thank you Doug!

    Cameras change but photographers don't. I wouldn't leave my pet lizard alone with that guy.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    just on a slow morningstart here in Denmark, just to entertain with the exceptional sharpness (apart from extreme corners) the kitlens provide, and at a very modest price
    https://photographylife.com/nikon-z-...mance-overview
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    If you can get thru this review, he says anyone is 1000% insane to buy this over a D850. Around the 15 minute mark

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r19prJVWOXA&t=54s
    That's a bit rough. There are lots of photographers out there making a living on much more basic equipment than a Z7 and kit lens... Admittedly a meager living, but still a living.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    ..and then the completely teardown for you Vivek
    https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/
    Last edited by Thorkil; 6th October 2018 at 03:28.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    ..and then the completely teardown for you Vivek
    https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/
    From that link:

    Another unique aspect: the cover glass of the Z7’s sensor is about half a thick as the Sony’s, coming in at 1.1mm. This means the Nikon will have better performance with adapter lenses right out of the box

    Good news for those with the legacy F mount glass!
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    It had to happen .... today I had hands on with the Nikon Z7 and S lenses when it was officially introduced (presented) by Nikon in Vienna.

    To make it short - I am overwhelmed! Where to start? I will not repeat any specs but what impressed me 8not necessarily in the right order):

    1) EVF is out of another world - not sure how they do it, but even in dim light of the event (evening) it was smooth, crisp and clear - although "only" 60Hz. Totally different from what I can get with my EM1.2 and also the G9, liked it even more than the one of the Leica SL. Also for video!

    2) Camera is very responsive and what you expect from Nikon - overall VERY comfortable to hold, even with big adapted glass like the 80-400 or 70-200/2.8

    3) AF is blazing fast - especially also AF-C and face detection works like a breeze - also in video!

    4) I love that kit zoom - 4/24-70

    5) The rear display is also from another world - have not seen such a great and crisp display on any camera yet. And touch operation is intuitive and smooth.

    6) Video AF is almost Hollywood Cinema like. Smooth but very accurate!

    I could go on and on .. I am really impressed by what Nikon pulled out of the hat here! And I was not the biggest fan of Nikon during the last years as many of you may know ....

    I am now in serious trouble as I am seriously thinking of replacing all my m43 gear (which I love) with a Z7 and a few lenses. It is very tempting to think I could go fully back to FF with an almost similarly light system as my Olympus m43 with PRO lenses.

    Needs some more thought process I know and I will take my time but I don't see anything which I could not do similar as good or in most cases better with the Z7 compared to my m43 gear. Of course IQ is also from a different world - both in still images as well as video!
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    I'm not surprised. Although I haven't had the oportunity to try it out myself yet, after reading the previews so far and looking at the pictures and specs, it seems pretty clear that Nikon has hit a "golden spot" with these two cameras. In a body not much larger than my GX8, Nikon has managed to place a much larger sensor, a huge lens mount and a big battery. Still, ergonomics seem to be healthy and lenses seem to be more or less on par with what I can get for m4/3.

    Your comments about the viewfinder etc. confirm my suspicions.

    I do want to try the Panasonic before I make up my mind, and I'm in no hurry, but Nikon really shows what decades of experience and cooperation with professional photographers can lead to.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    If you can get thru this review, he says anyone is 1000% insane to buy this over a D850. Around the 15 minute mark

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r19prJVWOXA&t=54s
    To quote a dear old friend, That guy is so full of $&it his earlobes stink.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Peter, if I didn’t know you, I would have said you were Nikon Marketing!

    Glad you have found the Z7 having much to like.

    I have put most of my Nikon n Fuji gear out for sale here.

    No, not for the Z6/7, but to get rid of camera gear. And maybe fund a vacation or two. Wife has Bhutan n Greenland planned

    I prefer to stay mostly at sea-level nowadays. And warm climates.

    I am in no hurry to buy any new cameras now, but am becoming interested in what I read about the Nikon Zsfrom folks like yourself.

    Best.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    Peter, if I didn’t know you, I would have said you were Nikon Marketing!

    Glad you have found the Z7 having much to like.

    I have put most of my Nikon n Fuji gear out for sale here.

    No, not for the Z6/7, but to get rid of camera gear. And maybe fund a vacation or two. Wife has Bhutan n Greenland planned

    I prefer to stay mostly at sea-level nowadays. And warm climates.

    I am in no hurry to buy any new cameras now, but am becoming interested in what I read about the Nikon Zsfrom folks like yourself.

    Best.
    Rayyan,

    not in a hurry too. because that usually gets expensive . But I am really impressed from what I could see, touch and feel. And I think this is the most important factor - that when you touch a camera and lenses you also like to do so - this keeps you shooting.

    I currently do not know if I should keep the Olympus and at least the 2 zooms (12-40 and 40-150) as they served me so well over the past years and I also really love touching, holding and shooting with them. But I might sell the 3/300 PRO as it does not get much use although it is an excellent lens. But I knew when I bought it that I am rather a zoom guy.

    On the other hand I am also working to minimise my camera gear and I think I really could "survive" with the Z7 (what a word - survive with that beast of a camera) and some lenses - actually the 4/24-70 I really like. And it feels much better as most reviewers say, same as the other S lenses. I might get the 1.8/24 and the 4/15-30 and the 1.2/50 when they become available later next year and add a used F-mount 80-400 as my telephoto zoom. That would cover almost all my needs and still make a pretty small and lightweight solution. Not as light as Olympus m43 but also not much heavier.

    Well there needs to be lot more thought process from my side but I know now pretty well where I want to be in say 1 or 2 years. I am also having an eye on the new Panasonic S1R and some L-mount lenses, but IMHO Nikon landed a winner especially with the new Z-mount, which gives more design freedom compared to the L-mount because of larger diameter and smaller flange distance. But the L-mount will offer more lenses because of the alliance between Leica, Panasonic and Sigma. But then - actually I do not need more choices than I can get from Nikon already (or soon).

    As you see I am still floating, but I start to see some light at the end of the tunnel
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    It had to happen .... today I had hands on with the Nikon Z7 and S lenses when it was officially introduced (presented) by Nikon in Vienna.

    To make it short - I am overwhelmed! Where to start? I will not repeat any specs but what impressed me 8not necessarily in the right order):

    1) EVF is out of another world - not sure how they do it, but even in dim light of the event (evening) it was smooth, crisp and clear - although "only" 60Hz. Totally different from what I can get with my EM1.2 and also the G9, liked it even more than the one of the Leica SL. Also for video!

    2) Camera is very responsive and what you expect from Nikon - overall VERY comfortable to hold, even with big adapted glass like the 80-400 or 70-200/2.8

    3) AF is blazing fast - especially also AF-C and face detection works like a breeze - also in video!

    4) I love that kit zoom - 4/24-70

    5) The rear display is also from another world - have not seen such a great and crisp display on any camera yet. And touch operation is intuitive and smooth.

    6) Video AF is almost Hollywood Cinema like. Smooth but very accurate!

    I could go on and on .. I am really impressed by what Nikon pulled out of the hat here! And I was not the biggest fan of Nikon during the last years as many of you may know ....

    I am now in serious trouble as I am seriously thinking of replacing all my m43 gear (which I love) with a Z7 and a few lenses. It is very tempting to think I could go fully back to FF with an almost similarly light system as my Olympus m43 with PRO lenses.

    Needs some more thought process I know and I will take my time but I don't see anything which I could not do similar as good or in most cases better with the Z7 compared to my m43 gear. Of course IQ is also from a different world - both in still images as well as video!
    Peter

    I am not surprised. I ordered the Z7 right after it was announced. I just needed them to confirm they only built in one card slot for XQD cards, so I can try out something new . Two cards slots are far too complex to handle for my poor brain
    Somewhat I trusted Nikon they will create a camera which is close to their pedigree and operates like a camera should operate. I could try it out early September and this convinced me I did the right thing. Got an M mount adapter on order at Novoflex and am quite interested to see, how some M lenses will perform.
    Just like you, I took a hard look in direction of my Olympus gear and decided I will part with at least half of the lenses (the more expensive ones). The Z7 will replace the EM-1 for me. I keep the Pen-F and some small lenses for now.
    for me and my usage, the important features of the Z7 are IBIS, a fantastically clear, top of the line EVF and the large new lens mount. I do also have a staple of mostly older Nikkors, but also three AF-S lenses. The fact I can seamlessly continue to use them pushed it over for me. What's not to like? Well, my head bartender still did not get mine in.

    Ivo
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    It had to happen ....
    I am now in serious trouble as I am seriously thinking of replacing all my m43 gear (which I love) with a Z7 and a few lenses. It is very tempting to think I could go fully back to FF with an almost similarly light system as my Olympus m43 with PRO lenses.


    The thing is here (the left one in the picture above ...). Z7/FTZ-Adapter/24-70. Massive box. Really. Compared to the size of the camera almost ridiculously large. Comes with a free XQD Card, which is a nice touch.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
    The thing is here (the left one in the picture above ...). Z7/FTZ-Adapter/24-70. Massive box. Really. Compared to the size of the camera almost ridiculously large. Comes with a free XQD Card, which is a nice touch.
    Ivo, congratulations on the Z7 and lenses, you will enjoy very much!

    Almost same size as the EM1 and this is really remarkable. Especially when holding the Z7 it is very comfortable too!
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Danke, Peter. I think the feel and physical dimensions of the Z7 are fantastic, especially given the technology inside.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    I know you have already read it - but still this lovely subjective review:
    https://nikonrumors.com/2018/10/14/t...7-camera.aspx/
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    I know you have already read it - but still this lovely subjective review:
    https://nikonrumors.com/2018/10/14/t...7-camera.aspx/
    Thanks - very helpful.


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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    I sincerely want Nikon to succeed with their Z series.
    However, for me, it is too early to commit either way.

    I shall wait. Hopefully before the services of the ‘ Pro funeral ‘ photographer are needed.

    One thing in the review he got spot on...who cares about fast focus at a funeral?
    The person ain’t going nowhere...at least not on planet earth! Hope not.

    And the attendees at such events are generally not known to be the epitome of exuberance and fast activity.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    Thanks - very helpful.

    Yes indeed! I'm no action man. And his word are just reassuring, convincing and encouraging. There seems no reason to fear the big ditch to fall into. I'm still in (if I can afford it.. )
    Last edited by Thorkil; 16th October 2018 at 01:13.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Congrats Ivo.

    Best.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Not sure if this is the right thread to put this - but here is a very honest review of the Nikon Z7 by Matt Granger

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlRMpqpNKG4

    I am still finding this camera VERY interesting despite it's flaws ....
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    My feeling is the Z7 is a bit like the D800....a great camera with a few (or more) quibbles which were ironed out in the D810 and brought to final fruition in the D850.....

    My instinct is to wait for the 2nd generation.

    Let's see what gives.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    My feeling is the Z7 is a bit like the D800....a great camera with a few (or more) quibbles which were ironed out in the D810 and brought to final fruition in the D850.....

    My instinct is to wait for the 2nd generation.

    Let's see what gives.

    You are exactly speaking from my heart. Had the D800E and while an excellent camera the flaws it had made it finally not enjoyable for me. The D810 was already almost perfect for me with the exception of video. I skipped the D850 as I started waiting for their FF offering.

    Now that the Z7 is here I have same thoughts as you. I almost pulled the trigger to switch over to Nikon mirrorless last week, but something in me told me to wait. So here I am waiting for the next release of this camera, that will come pretty soon IMHO. And then also more native S lenses will be available, making it easier to jump fully into that system.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Not sure if this is the right thread to put this - but here is a very honest review of the Nikon Z7 by Matt Granger

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlRMpqpNKG4

    I am still finding this camera VERY interesting despite it's flaws ....
    Most points are valid, I think. Just that my Z7 does indeed directly USB-C charge with an Anker power bank. Only works with the new ("B") batteries, unfortunately. And Matt G did spell Hasselblad wrong (again, I think ...)

    He is essentially saying the Z7 has the best FF sensor, very good battery life, best ergonomics of all mirrorless cameras, great finder (but more laggy than an optical one ...), perfect weather sealing, great low light AF. But it is flawed due to the single card slot, the missing battery door lock, not-on-par AF-C (tracking) with the d850 and some USB-C issues, I can partly understand (power + charging) and partly not replicate.

    So far, I came across two things I did not like. The missing aperture feeler on the FTZ adapter. And while this could be changed in a future model, knowing Nikon I think it will not happen. The other one is the Info button. If you press it to alter a config from the LCD monitor and have it white on black text, it is really too dim - and you cannot change it. I raised a defect with Nikon on this
    Last edited by Photon42; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:37.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    A friend of mine just collected his Df at Nikon repair service, Copenhagen, after sensorcleaning, today, asked them about expected delivery on new Z7'es. They told him that because of a unexpected rush/demand all over the world on Z7, they expected deliverytime to be at lest half a year or so.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    A friend of mine just collected his Df at Nikon repair service, Copenhagen, after sensorcleaning, today, asked them about expected delivery on new Z7'es. They told him that because of a unexpected rush/demand all over the world on Z7, they expected deliverytime to be at lest half a year or so.
    Interesting because my dealer had one for sale this week ....

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Interesting because my dealer had one for sale this week ....
    Actually, I think that Nikon has quotas per region/country and it seems difficult to change them. That is also why the US still have the d850 backordered which can be had in Switzerland instantaneously.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
    Actually, I think that Nikon has quotas per region/country and it seems difficult to change them. That is also why the US still have the d850 backordered which can be had in Switzerland instantaneously.
    Yes, I think thats the reason - a precalculation from the factory - that will never end up being totally spot on..

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    It's hard not to notice how dpr continues to suggest that the Z7 is lacking in several ways, particularly with regards to AF, and I have been wondering what their motives and agenda are. Ming Thein apparently agrees, and came up with this comment after his very positive review of the camera:

    "I have long lost respect for DPR. That site long ago degraded into clickbait and a home for trolls, not to mention relying on paid advertising from various camera companies to survive. Frankly, I question their objectivity. I’ve been using the camera without issues for paid client work for the last two weeks and don’t have any issues with it – perhaps they should actually use the camera for real photography and not test shots of hipsters with beards on bicycles. The bottom line is you can make the photos you want with it; the camera doesn’t hold you back. So you have to ask yourself – a) are they really photographers or equipment fetishists, and b) with every single thing they post, what is the motivation to generate a zillion posts with controversial titles other than trying to drive traffic and advertising revenue?"


    Here's his very positive review (he has quit Hasselblad):

    https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/2...-24-70-review/
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's hard not to notice how dpr continues to suggest that the Z7 is lacking in several ways, particularly with regards to AF, and I have been wondering what their motives and agenda are. Ming Thein apparently agrees, and came up with this comment after his very positive review of the camera:

    "I have long lost respect for DPR. That site long ago degraded into clickbait and a home for trolls, not to mention relying on paid advertising from various camera companies to survive. Frankly, I question their objectivity. I’ve been using the camera without issues for paid client work for the last two weeks and don’t have any issues with it – perhaps they should actually use the camera for real photography and not test shots of hipsters with beards on bicycles. The bottom line is you can make the photos you want with it; the camera doesn’t hold you back. So you have to ask yourself – a) are they really photographers or equipment fetishists, and b) with every single thing they post, what is the motivation to generate a zillion posts with controversial titles other than trying to drive traffic and advertising revenue?"


    Here's his very positive review (he has quit Hasselblad):

    https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/09/2...-24-70-review/
    I really like his reviews and posts and meanwhile I only very occasionally read the dpr reviews. I shot the Z7 with the 24-70 and the 35 S lenses and I also tried the 2.8/70-200 and although this is far away from a review or serious test I must admit that I was not disappointed by any means.

    So I really question the dpr reviews meanwhile!
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    While directed at DPR, I think MT’s comments apply to a lot of review sites and internet reviewers, and aren’t exclusive to DPR.

    I certainly agree with the text in yellow. For my needs, I can get out what I need from just about any camera system that’s been released in the last few years, and I’d have a hard time calling myself a photographer if that werent the case. We’re spoiled to live in a time with so many capable systems across various price points IMHO, and I get tired of reading about what features system x or y “lack” (or this whole concept of “mirrorless wars” altogether) They’re all really good.
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    I'm seeing a "panic mode" being engaged by many of those who until recently have claimed that Nikon is a dinosaur and that their first full frame mirrorless will be generations behind the cameras from competitors like Sony and Fuji. All products launched by Nikon the last few years have indicated that Nikon is fully up to the game, and they confirmed that by launching two great photographic tool with excellent backwards compatibility. In addition to their technical excellence, they are also very precicely placed in the market, complementing Nikon's existing DSLR cameras in a great way. I think we'll see many photographers with D850/Z7, D750/Z6 and D500/Z6 or Z7 combos the next few years. The best of two worlds, from one supplier, fully compatible, even to a large degre with film bodies. None has done this better so far.
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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  33. #683
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankly View Post
    Thank you Doug!

    Cameras change but photographers don't. I wouldn't leave my pet lizard alone with that guy.
    Yes he would barbecue your lizard, or eat it raw

  34. #684
    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Well, it's not for me. I'll struggle along with the D810 and really not think that I missed a significant upgrade. When I saw the adapter for the F lenses I thought of the Hasselblad X1D adapter for the H lenses - both ungainly and defeating the purpose of the body. IMO, if you want a Z7, you need the native lenses to take advantage of the concept. Which, is in essence, a changeover to an entirely new system. Perhaps I'm a dinosaur with the F system, but so be it.
    The X1D was more interesting to me, but two things put me off - still don't like/trust EVF's and second, I contacted a Hasselblad dealer about trading in my CFV-50c on an X1D and all I got was an "I'll get back to you..." Which never happened.
    My next new camera body has not broken ground. Yet. And hell, at my age I'll probably be able to shoot and enjoy the D810 and Df until I croak.
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  35. #685
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Well, it's not for me. I'll struggle along with the D810 and really not think that I missed a significant upgrade. When I saw the adapter for the F lenses I thought of the Hasselblad X1D adapter for the H lenses - both ungainly and defeating the purpose of the body. IMO, if you want a Z7, you need the native lenses to take advantage of the concept. Which, is in essence, a changeover to an entirely new system. Perhaps I'm a dinosaur with the F system, but so be it.
    The X1D was more interesting to me, but two things put me off - still don't like/trust EVF's and second, I contacted a Hasselblad dealer about trading in my CFV-50c on an X1D and all I got was an "I'll get back to you..." Which never happened.
    My next new camera body has not broken ground. Yet. And hell, at my age I'll probably be able to shoot and enjoy the D810 and Df until I croak.
    The other thing about the mirrorless revolution is that is easy to forgot there’s no reason to switch if you don’t want to as long as the size/weight of a dSLR doesn’t bother you. The Df and D810 are still fine cameras, and there are plenty of enticing f-system lenses out there for which there are no true native mirrorless equivalents (105 f1.4, 200mm f2, for example - excluding the sigma 105 1.4 FE-Mount because it’s a monstrosity and not designed for mirrorless). My wife has hinted she’d rather be shooting with a D8xx than a Fuji X, so I’ll be looking for another D810 at some point, which I’ll buy second hand cheaper than a Z6 or Z7. Plus, with everyone switching to mirrorless, there are plenty of good deals on second-hand F-system bodies and lenses around

    I definitely agree about the lenses for the Z system. I think the Z system (and Canon EOS R) will hit its stride/potential when the native lens lineup fills out (and possibly when the gen 2 bodies arrive). If a Z is ever in the cards for me, it will be at that point a few years from now.

    Regarding the X1D, there was never a trade in program through Hasselblad, so it would’ve had to be through your dealer. I looked into trading my H4D-40 in this manner, and ultimately purchased the X1D outright. I still wish I could’ve bought your CFV-50c for my STC though
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  36. #686
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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Well, it's not for me. I'll struggle along with the D810 and really not think that I missed a significant upgrade. When I saw the adapter for the F lenses I thought of the Hasselblad X1D adapter for the H lenses - both ungainly and defeating the purpose of the body. IMO, if you want a Z7, you need the native lenses to take advantage of the concept. Which, is in essence, a changeover to an entirely new system. Perhaps I'm a dinosaur with the F system, but so be it.
    The X1D was more interesting to me, but two things put me off - still don't like/trust EVF's and second, I contacted a Hasselblad dealer about trading in my CFV-50c on an X1D and all I got was an "I'll get back to you..." Which never happened.
    My next new camera body has not broken ground. Yet. And hell, at my age I'll probably be able to shoot and enjoy the D810 and Df until I croak.
    No pun intended

    One comment on the adapter, though. Having the FTZ and played around with the X1D + adapter and my only HC lens (2.2/100), I appeared that most HC lenses require a firmware update, most likely due to contrast AF of the camera. No issue, you would think, just that this is not possible for all but the newest HC lenses, as the memory in the lens to hold the new FW is not large enough. So yes, you can use them, but no AF. Nikon did better here. My 58 for example works like a champ on the Z7.

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    Re: Nikon mirrorless ?

    ..well, I just must admit, that the review from photographylife.com
    https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-z7/4
    is very encouraging
    and specially the review of the 24-70/4S and 35/1.8S, where the kitlens totally outperform the else stellar FX 24-70/2.8E VR
    with Imatest centervalues at f4 and 5.6 at 3.280 and 3.315 compared to the 2.8E VR at "only" 2.643 and 2.758 - that is actually rather impressive..
    and the 35/1.8S is claimed to be the best tested lens ever at photographylife with values of 3.672, 3.517 and 3.177 at f2.8, f4 and f5.6,
    where the nextbest till date, the Nikkor 28/1.4ED comes out at 3.524 at f2.8, 3.371 at f4 and 3.056 at f5.6.
    and both at a very decent price where you dont get ripped off..
    now just waiting for unpacking and getting these lenses out in fresh air when C1 comes updating...
    (I'm also excited to see how the 15-30 Tamron behave on the Z7 - and cant wait for that little thing, the 14-30/4S that will be out soon in 2019)
    ..thorkil
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