Nikon mirrorless ?

[jduncan]

Nikon's new mirrorless will most probably be one of the most advanced on the market from day one, and judging from history, ergonomics will be great.

- Nikon makes the most advanced full-frame DSLR on the market, the D850.
- Nikon makes the most advanced crop sensor DSLR on the market, the D500.
- Nikon made one of the most advanced mirrorless cameras for its time, although a commercial failure, the V3.
- Nikon is, as far as I know, still the second largest manufacturer of cameras with interchangeable lenses, after Canon and before Sony.

Any assumption that they won't include all their knowledge and all available technology in their new mirrorless camera is absurd. They'll do absolutely everything in their power to dominate this market, as they have done in the DSLR market together with Canon in the past.

Hi,

I agree with you, but we can't deny that:
1. Nikon has the worst video AF. And they need to fix that to have an option.
2. Sony is way ahead at this moment. It's true that Nikon was the first manufacturer with sports class AF for mirrorless (the Nikon 1), but at the same time, Sony has the lenses and the expertise. They already made a bunch of errors, and learn to correct them. They also have the mind-share. Anything short of spectacular (in the price of features) will trigger negative comparisons. Remember: agreeing with people produces far more clicks. If it becomes trendy to joke at the new Nikon, everyone will do so.
3. Nikon does not have the resources to compete "1 on 1" with Sony. They need a barrier of entry, something that will force Sony to lost something great they have in order to match Nikon. If the big mount support a MF sensor that could be it, or it could be other stuff. Sony can't change the mount anytime soon.

Best regards,

 

[jdphoto]

While my comments are not intended to be an APS-C vs FF, there are certain advantages in regards to physics as it relates to sensor size that have nothing to do with marketing material. If shooting with low sensitivities with a FF and APS-C that shared the same resolution, the differences in detail would indeed, be hard to tell apart. The differences of FF sensors being almost 2.5 times bigger allow for larger individual pixels compared to an APS-C with the same resolution. Typically this results in better quality images at higher ISO settings, in addition to broader Dynamic Range.
Blown highlights, deep shadows are easier to work with a FF sensor, but that's not to say the APS-C is inferior. I've used my APS-C cameras professionally with great success, but would prefer a FF for Nikon's new mirrorless camera simply for the extra utility and use of their extensive, legendary lens selection, which are some of the best ever produced.

Make this camera in Japan too.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Some one correct me if I misunderstand ....but doesn t the decision to have a wider mount ..make it easier to design fast lenses . The rumors have been for very fast primes (NOCT trade mark ) etc .

For Nikon to compete they don t have to beat anyone ...most photographers don t buy based on specifications . Nikon has a lot going for it . Their lenses are first rate and getting better with each new release . There camera bodies are built like tanks . They have a great reputation and its well earned ..not paid for thru slick marketing (they could do a lot better).

If they stay focused on quality and don t get to hung up on cost ...they will have niche . I would hope that Nikon becomes more like Leica and lot less like Sony . There is a place for both strategies . :clap:

 

[iiiNelson]

...If they stay focused on quality and don t get to hung up on cost ...they will have niche . I would hope that Nikon becomes more like Leica and lot less like Sony . There is a place for both strategies . :clap:

Do you think they’re going for a niche product and not a mass appeal one though? Outside the D810, D5, and D850 it seems like most of the big Nikon released had a bit of a hiccup too so I don’t know that their quality is any better than any other brand but I don’t think it’s any worse either.

I think a lot of people have latched onto the idea, based on comments originally derived from the Micro 4/3 Consortium about 10 years ago or so, that Mirrorless has to exclusively mean smaller/lighter than DSLR’s. I’ve been exclusively Mirrorless for the last 10 years (outside a quick stint with a Sony A77 system for when I needed telephoto options) and many complain about larger lenses that are being made solely for the possibility they’ll be mounted onto high resolution sensors. I’m interested to see what Nikon comes up with (even if I’m likely to completely skip over it short of them doing the unexpected) but I wish they’d just show their hand versus doing this delayed periodic leak of info prior to unveiling.

 

[Frankly]

Some one correct me if I misunderstand ....but doesn t the decision to have a wider mount ..make it easier to design fast lenses . The rumors have been for very fast primes (NOCT trade mark ) etc .

For Nikon to compete they don t have to beat anyone ...most photographers don t buy based on specifications . Nikon has a lot going for it . Their lenses are first rate and getting better with each new release . There camera bodies are built like tanks . They have a great reputation and its well earned ..not paid for thru slick marketing (they could do a lot better).

If they stay focused on quality and don t get to hung up on cost ...they will have niche . I would hope that Nikon becomes more like Leica and lot less like Sony . There is a place for both strategies . :clap:

Agreed, less like Sony is good! While I won't begrudge anyone for owning their products, I loathe the company and believe their bad practices filter into product design as well.

I gripe about many of the older Nikon lenses and they do have a blind spot about which lenses to develop but most of their higher end modern lenses are amazing: 28/1.4e; 105/1.4e; 300/4Pe have all been exceptional, best in class, equal to Zeiss in IQ but with the best AF in the industry.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Do you think they’re going for a niche product and not a mass appeal one though? Outside the D810, D5, and D850 it seems like most of the big Nikon released had a bit of a hiccup too so I don’t know that their quality is any better than any other brand but I don’t think it’s any worse either.

I think a lot of people have latched onto the idea, based on comments originally derived from the Micro 4/3 Consortium about 10 years ago or so, that Mirrorless has to exclusively mean smaller/lighter than DSLR’s. I’ve been exclusively Mirrorless for the last 10 years (outside a quick stint with a Sony A77 system for when I needed telephoto options) and many complain about larger lenses that are being made solely for the possibility they’ll be mounted onto high resolution sensors. I’m interested to see what Nikon comes up with (even if I’m likely to completely skip over it short of them doing the unexpected) but I wish they’d just show their hand versus doing this delayed periodic leak of info prior to unveiling.

As the demand for low cost DSLR and the competitive low (price) end of mirrorless become realities .....we are hopeful that Nikon will build from its strength .

The D800/810/850 and the D4/D4s/D5 have been real winners . Nikon telephotos are as good as it gets and the whole range of fast 1.4 primes (24/28/35/50/58/85/105) are all excellent . They have as good if better complete line of lenses as any manufacture . Even at Leica s high prices ..they have major holes in their product line .

My expectation is that they will focus on the same buyers that consider a D750/ D850 .

My wish would be that they would in some way establish company stores similar to Leica but a lot larger. Could you imagine the demand if they had a large store in NYC maybe with PRO services close by.

They had one once next to Rockefeller s Skate Rink ...what a location ..but I guess you can make more selling Lego s ?

 

[Frankly]

My wish would be that they would in some way establish company stores similar to Leica but a lot larger. Could you imagine the demand if they had a large store in NYC maybe with PRO services close by.

Their marketing ineptness is legendary. Their brand had a stellar reputation as the "Japanese Leica" and they blew it over and over again with bad decisions, poor customer service and quality control. It speaks to their strengths and the other manufacturers' weaknesses that they're still competitive and make some truly desirable products. But with a few key changes they could be dominating the industry instead of struggling.

 

[DougDolde]

http://view.mcd.nikon.com/?qs=4462b...60d98475a98fe029d6c51ca8524a03894d2a04de1c246

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

http://view.mcd.nikon.com/?qs=4462b...60d98475a98fe029d6c51ca8524a03894d2a04de1c246

Thanks. That side view indicates strongly a relatively large camera with very good ergonomics.

 

[Frankly]

The size and secrecy has me wondering if this might be a higher specification camera than we're expecting? If it's larger than an A7xxx then perhaps its also higher performance ~ maybe a nice surprise?

Even though I gripe about marketing the stupid teaser campaign has influenced me. I've decided not to buy a new D850 to replace a slightly broken D810 body. Instead I'll wait for the announcement and maybe the reviews to see if this new Nikon mirrorless has any advantages? It's only a month and Summer isn't busy, I can get by with one body while the other is in the shop.

Of course once it is actually shipping then the prices of D850s will decline so either way patience rewards me.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The size and secrecy has me wondering if this might be a higher specification camera than we're expecting?

I don't know what you were expecting, but I've been expecting a very high-end camera all along, clearly with higher specs than the A7, and probably than the A9 as well. But remember also that high specs are more than fps, megapixels and buffer size. It's also about battery life, flexibility, adaptability etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see something that competes both with the A7R III, the A9 and the GFX 50, and I'm quite sure that the price will be above $4,000.

I would also expect them to launch two cameras right away or at least a second one being announced for launch within a few months, like they did with the D3/D300 and the D5/D500.

 

[Knorp]

I don't know what you were expecting, but I've been expecting a very high-end camera all along, clearly with higher specs than the A7, and probably than the A9 as well. But remember also that high specs are more than fps, megapixels and buffer size. It's also about battery life, flexibility, adaptability etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see something that competes both with the A7R III, the A9 and the GFX 50, and I'm quite sure that the price will be above $4,000.

I would also expect them to launch two cameras right away or at least a second one being announced for launch within a few months, like they did with the D3/D300 and the D5/D500.

Jørgen, while you're at it: which accompanying lenses will they launch ?

 

[iiiNelson]

Jørgen, while you're at it: which accompanying lenses will they launch ?

I read a 35, 50, and 24-70 plus the F-mount adapter. Sounds exactly like what was available at the A7 launch...

 

[ptomsu]

I expect (well better still hope) this now Nikon mirrorless cameras to be announced will top the A9 and A7III - both in functionality, easy handling like most of us are used from Nikon, of course IQ (both the high res model with 45MP and the low res model with 24MP), stunning low light capabilities, exceptional AF and maybe also some sort of global shutter. Definitely I expect a stunning and really blackout free EVF - at least level of the A9, but maybe even better (closer to the Leica SL maybe) - what if they would use the newer 5.6MP EVF display the was announced recently? And definitely I expect 5 axis IBIS :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

The big mount diameter is a real bonus and we can expect a new lineup of really fast glass. If this is the case and they show up with some outstanding .95 versions or similar and hopefully much more affordable than the Leica pendents and add sooner or later a new 80-400 zoom like their existing DSLR lens then I would be in heaven and ready to step back into Nikon FF land again - and maybe forever .

If they use this new mount to also step int MFD is cool but not too much interesting for me personally, because that would mean also a special kind of lenses and honestly I am out of the MFD game I think.

 

[jdphoto]

I was going to purchase a D810, but want to wait for the reviews too. Either way, prices on used D810, D850's will more than likely reflect this new mirrorless camera.

 

[iiiNelson]

I expect (well better still hope) this now Nikon mirrorless cameras to be announced will top the A9 and A7III - both in functionality, easy handling like most of us are used from Nikon, of course IQ (both the high res model with 45MP and the low res model with 24MP), stunning low light capabilities, exceptional AF and maybe also some sort of global shutter. Definitely I expect a stunning and really blackout free EVF - at least level of the A9, but maybe even better (closer to the Leica SL maybe) - what if they would use the newer 5.6MP EVF display the was announced recently? And definitely I expect 5 axis IBIS :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

The big mount diameter is a real bonus and we can expect a new lineup of really fast glass. If this is the case and they show up with some outstanding .95 versions or similar and hopefully much more affordable than the Leica pendents and add sooner or later a new 80-400 zoom like their existing DSLR lens then I would be in heaven and ready to step back into Nikon FF land again - and maybe forever .

If they use this new mount to also step int MFD is cool but not too much interesting for me personally, because that would mean also a special kind of lenses and honestly I am out of the MFD game I think.

I expect it to be competing with the A7R but I don’t expect it to exceed the A9 because that would put the performance in line with the D5. I don’t see Nikon exceeding the D5’s performance on their first FF Mirrorless attempt. If it were as easy as just reverse engineering a competitors camera to catch up then it wouldn’t take all of the other Mirrorless manufacturers this long (roughly 10 years of development) to get performance on par with top end DSLR’s.

In that case I still think getting AF comparable to the A7R is a very high and lofty goal but one that would put Nikon on a good footing to inspire confidence that they’re taking Mirrorless seriously this go around.

 

[k-hawinkler]

IMHO the Olympus E-M1.2 and Sony A9 were the first mirrorless cameras without debilitating focus hunting AF performance. Any inferior AF performance is unacceptable for capturing fluid dynamic scenes. Of course that doesn’t matter for landscape and other non-dynamic subjects.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Hi,

I agree with you, but we can't deny that:
1. Nikon has the worst video AF. And they need to fix that to have an option.

Best regards,

No, the Nikon V3 had one of the best video AF of its time (better than the GH4). There's no reason to believe that Nikon hasn't continued to develop this feature.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I expect it to be competing with the A7R but I don’t expect it to exceed the A9 because that would put the performance in line with the D5. I don’t see Nikon exceeding the D5’s performance on their first FF Mirrorless attempt. If it were as easy as just reverse engineering a competitors camera to catch up then it wouldn’t take all of the other Mirrorless manufacturers this long (roughly 10 years of development) to get performance on par with top end DSLR’s.

In that case I still think getting AF comparable to the A7R is a very high and lofty goal but one that would put Nikon on a good footing to inspire confidence that they’re taking Mirrorless seriously this go around.

I believe the V3 had AF fully on par with the original A7R or better. I think we can be pretty sure that the developers at Nikon haven't been sleeping all the way from 2014 till now. They will start with current technology and all the knowledge that they have gathered from the 1 Series and later prototypes.

It would be a waste of time for Nikon to launch a camera that doesn't have AF comparable with the best, and that includes the A9.

 

[glenerrolrd]

If you look at Nikon s pattern of new camera introductions....they rarely come to market with all the desired and possible features . They borrow extensively from their existing (proven ) cameras . For example look at AF ...they had the 51PT market standard in the D5 but launched cameras D8XX with the 39PT ...later they brought the 51PT to the D8XX series .

My expectations are not that they will try to match the Sony A7 series feature for feature ..but rather rely on their reputation for building durable professional grade products with outstanding lenses . Hopefully they have developed the fundamentals to match any mirrorless and will bring new feature sets overtime .

Sensor ....looks promising as the D850 sensor is thought to be as good as it gets in FF.


EVF......they should match the Leica SL or get close . If you ever looked thru a Leica SL and a Sony A7 series EVF you know the difference .

Lenses ....Nikon has the ability as demonstrated with the latest FX lenses to produce glass in the top of the class . I typically use Leica lenses and the newest Nikkors are in the same class ....you can quibble about the aesthetics .


Speed ...AF ,blackout ,slow processing just will not cut it and would kill the enthusiasm of the professionals .

Body ... bullet proof build ..maybe not as small or light as the A7 series .

They should be positioned for success if they get the fundamentals right and let the feature sets come later . I guess the 4K video is important for a lot of customers .

I don t expect it to be in any way except size and maybe EVF (if that is important to your work ) better than a D850 .

Still I see a first day order in my plans . :thumbs: