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Nikon mirrorless ?

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Most people just want a functional camera that is easy to understand. That is what photographers get from Canon and Nikon and it's an important contributing factor towards their continued success through more than 50 years.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Most people just want a functional camera that is easy to understand. That is what photographers get from Canon and Nikon and it's an important contributing factor towards their continued success through more than 50 years.
And QC that makes lens return the rare exception rather than the rule.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Most people just want a functional camera that is easy to understand. That is what photographers get from Canon and Nikon and it's an important contributing factor towards their continued success through more than 50 years.
If you overlook design flaws, Leica is your ticket. :grin:
 

D Fuller

New member
I think a lot of the lack of critical buzz generated towards Canon is solely due to NOT doing a “Mirrorless reinvented” marketing campaign which solved a lot of backlash for the EOS R. I’m not saying it’s right but that’s my own takeaway. Also I believe their initial lens offering of provding a 50/1.2 and 28-70/2 “halo lenses” from day one overshadowed a lot of the shortcomings of the body. I do believe that if Nikon had the 58/0.95 available from day one AND it was an autofocus lens that would’ve provided a lot of the same “cover” for the shortcomings of their body... assuming they didn’t do a Mirrorless reinvented ad campaign.

If you look at doscussion and videos on the EOS R people bring up all of the shortcomings of the body but also caveat it with a “...just like Nikon...” comment so in essence Nikon took a lot of the beatings Canon would’ve taken had they come out with their camera first. Also Nikon possibly would be better served long term by just releasing the camera and putting it in the hands of people for a month or so prior to Photokina type announcements. What their campaign did was also something of effective in that it generated buzz and caused many photographers to become more “tribal” in that any/all critique was dismissed if you like the camera and other people that have been in Mirrorless for some time were scratching their heads at the hypocrisy towards the Nikon marketing in general... like literally everything they so harshly criticized about their competitors was implemented - from adapters, to lack of dual card slots, to battery life, lack of native lenses, etc.

From what I can see though the Nikon image quality looks a lot better than what’s been presented from Canon thus far... but I think that has more to do with the sensor quality than anything. For all the criticism that many people have given I do believe that most people acknowledge that the camera isn’t “bad” in any sense of the word but it’s not anywhere near Mirrorless reinvented either. So I’ll leave it at that.
I think you're right about Nikon's rollout marketing leading to a lot of the noise. I think the most damaging of all was the decision to give bloggers a very short time with the cameras in a setting that didn't provide very attractive photo opportunities. So you have bloggers trying to figure out a new camera and making judgements about it at the same time. That's a sure-fire way to get the worse possible reviews.

The difference in the reports from people who had the camera in their hands for days rather than hours was startling. Yes, a good number of those were Nikon ambassadors, and as such would have ben inclined to speak favorably of the camera, but DPReview, for example, had the cameras for several days and were very positive overall and much more measured in their criticism of the cameras. People need time to get to know a new tool. If you don't give them that, and it doesn't work exactly like the last tool they held, that will be a problem, and the tool will get the blame.

For a reviewer, it's important to be able to separate preferences from functionality--to separate "I'd prefer that this worked differently" from "This doesn't work." Some reviewers aren't very good at that (and really aren't very good reviewers) but for those who are, Nikon's rollout really didn't give them a chance.
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
I don't think it was a bad decision at all. It certainly sets expectations for when people go try it out for themselves. It seems to be approximately what I expected from a mirrorless, but the devil will be in the details - most importantly, what the EVF looks like, it's effective magnification level, and whether it can display essential shooting info (shutter, aperture, ISO, buffer, flash status, etc) without laying it on top of the image - and if it can, what the resulting view looks like. If can't display info without overlaying the view it's immediately disqualified for me. If it lags it's disqualified. If it has an interpretation of tone and hue that distracts from what I'm visualizing as the post process result, it's disqualified. If it can't track a person walking towards the camera it's disqualified, and I mean maintain critical focus 100% of the time. If it can do all the basics I expect from a camera then I'll of course consider it. But it's not like I expect it to, and so I won't be grossly disappointed if it doesn't. Once they have a counter demo somewhere local I'll trek there to take a look. Or have a look at someone else's if they'll let me.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I think you're right about Nikon's rollout marketing leading to a lot of the noise. I think the most damaging of all was the decision to give bloggers a very short time with the cameras in a setting that didn't provide very attractive photo opportunities. So you have bloggers trying to figure out a new camera and making judgements about it at the same time. That's a sure-fire way to get the worse possible reviews.

The difference in the reports from people who had the camera in their hands for days rather than hours was startling. Yes, a good number of those were Nikon ambassadors, and as such would have ben inclined to speak favorably of the camera, but DPReview, for example, had the cameras for several days and were very positive overall and much more measured in their criticism of the cameras. People need time to get to know a new tool. If you don't give them that, and it doesn't work exactly like the last tool they held, that will be a problem, and the tool will get the blame.

For a reviewer, it's important to be able to separate preferences from functionality--to separate "I'd prefer that this worked differently" from "This doesn't work." Some reviewers aren't very good at that (and really aren't very good reviewers) but for those who are, Nikon's rollout really didn't give them a chance.
Yeah it seems like other camera manufacturers like Leica, Fuji, or Sony give their ambassadors weeks of use of developmental cameras throughout the process beforehand while going through the development cycle. I don’t know that Nikon did this for a wider range of feedback or not but it would make a lot of sense to do so in order to prevent some of the obvious talking points generated by the Z cameras.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Has this been linked to before? Looks pretty convincing with regards to AF-C:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=455&v=t-nGejFGlO8
I have posted that link before, but there is so much noise in this thread that information can be hard to find.
Here is also a translation/summary of Stephan Wiesner's Z7 related videos. It includes the AF-C video mentioned by Jorgen:

https://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-stephan-wiesner-in-german.html

BTW, Stephan also demonstrated in an FB video Z7's weather sealing by pouring water over running Z7. The only question that remains: will it blend? ;-)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I have posted that link before, but there is so much noise in this thread that information can be hard to find.
Here is also a translation/summary of Stephan Wiesner's Z7 related videos. It includes the AF-C video mentioned by Jorgen:

https://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/09/excellent-nikon-z7-reviews-by-stephan-wiesner-in-german.html

BTW, Stephan also demonstrated in an FB video Z7's weather sealing by pouring water over running Z7. The only question that remains: will it blend? ;-)
I guess it didn't hurt repeating it anyway. The circumstances for his shoot were challenging enough, and the results excellent. I have a feeling that Nikon will hit a solid home run with these two cameras and the system as a whole. As much as I like their DSLR bodies and my Panasonic mirrorless system, this is a candidate for replacing both.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Enjoyed Stephen’s videos linked to above.
But one XQD card ( capacity unmentioned ) for €200.00 :shocked:

I am sure it is a very capable photographic offering ( as are the others ). I wish Nikon n others success.

As for me, I am not in any hurry.

p.s while most are pushing 35mm FF, I am seriously evaluating the MFT offerings. I need small size n small but excellent glass. Just 3 lenses. But small, light n top of the draw.
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Enjoyed Stephen’s videos linked to above.
But one XQD card ( capacity unmentioned ) for €200.00 :shocked:

I am sure it is a very capable photographic offering ( as are the others ). I wish Nikon n others success.

As for me, I am not in any hurry.

p.s while most are pushing 35mm FF, I am seriously evaluating the MFT offerings. I need small size n small but excellent glass. Just 3 lenses. But small, light n top of the draw.
Then I guess, Rayyan, that you are in for the new Fuji GFX 50R or the Hassy X1D, I presume?
I dumped the idea myself, while the Fuji perhaps might be "to much Fuji" what in my head means not so straight forward menu-system as Nikon, and perhaps still a bit too harsh processing. And then the huge files.. In risk of getting my head chopped off, I think the GFX, from the pictures I see here, are not superior to a D810 or D850. I might see a difference in the Hasselblad though(and still got a heavy weak spot for that X1D), and I think it might look superior to the GFX. But for me, its too expensive I guess, and I can't use C1 in either of them, which just are a must for me.
But good luck Rayyan, if you make the jump..I'll stay put by the Z7, I still really think (I'm convinced the 2 slot matter is a psychological more than a real problem, and I still think it might be superior to even the D850 when the S-lenses are on, but I guess I also "just" could be satiesfied with a D850 in a small package :rolleyes:..:angel:) (Christ...I'm looking forward to it..!)
best thorkil
PS and while I'm in the top of the waitinglist I'll get the XQD-card for free (but it certainly wouldn't stop me anyway)
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Thorkil, as I mentioned, I am in no hurry. There is another consideration for me..
a very simple issue for me with all cameras, money!

I was in SE Asia for 3 weeks recently. I got tired carrying my Fuji. So, I must be getting really old. But I enjoy photography, and I just need a small ILC with smallish lenses.

And no my friend, MF, however small has no interest for me at all.

My existing systems exceed my capability.
No new physical camera system will change that.

I honestly wish you joy with your new acquisition and wait for you to post the images.

Best wishes.
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Hi Rayyan, even though we are located in a Nikon thread, then allow me to propose some rescue-plan:
If you are using belt, I will suggest to buy the Scarabaeus:
http://www.photoscarab.de/
and then just a Fuji X-E3, and a 18/2 (with aperture-ring)(and way better than its rumours) and the 27mm(the pancake-lens), so with the 27 on you are off with only 415 gram and so and so small size, and the 18 in your pocket will just do another 116 gram.
But perhaps if you could live with only a 28mm in 35-format, I would recommend the Ricoh GR, as the only true pocket camera (245 gram), and the new edition is perhaps coming here in September or October. The GR is an amazing camera, you will love it.
Kind regards
Thorkil
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Thorkil, Thank you.

I was indeed waiting for the GR :)

I will just use my pro-2 with the 35/1.4 ( 187 gms ) and the 50/2 in my pocket.
So I have two cameras covering 28,50,75mm.

More than good enough for me.

Thank you for the Scarabaeus recommendation. I don't wear a belt!

Kind regards.

p.s xpro-2 + 14/2.8 + 35/1.4 + 50/2 + battery+ 2 sd cards is 1.2 kgs.

replace the 35/1.4 with 35/2 which is about 20-30 gms lighter. And I get just about 1 kg ! Except the 14/2.8 I have WR kit too.

Hi Rayyan, even though we are located in a Nikon thread, then allow me to propose some rescue-plan:
If you are using belt, I will suggest to buy the Scarabaeus:
Scarabaeus
and then just a Fuji X-E3, and a 18/2 (with aperture-ring)(and way better than its rumours) and the 27mm(the pancake-lens), so with the 27 on you are off with only 415 gram and so and so small size, and the 18 in your pocket will just do another 116 gram.
But perhaps if you could live with only a 28mm in 35-format, I would recommend the Ricoh GR, as the only true pocket camera (245 gram), and the new edition is perhaps coming here in September or October. The GR is an amazing camera, you will love it.
Kind regards
Thorkil
 
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Thorkil

Well-known member
Thorkil, Thank you.

I was indeed waiting for the GR :)

I will just use my pro-2 with the 35/1.4 ( 187 gms ) and the 50/2 in my pocket.
So I have two cameras covering 28,50,75mm.

More than good enough for me.

Thank you for the Scarabaeus recommendation. I don't wear a belt!

Kind regards.

p.s xpro-2 + 14/2.8 + 35/1.4 + 50/2 + battery+ 2 sd cards is 1.2 kgs.

replace the 35/1.4 with 35/2 which is about 20-30 gms lighter. And I get just about 1 kg ! Except the 14/2.8 I have WR kit too.
That looks like a sensible plan, Rayyan.
(My own secret plan, is too loose some 4-5-6 kg myself, now I only lag carrying it out :toocool:...just to help my knees and make room for the Z-system, else it will just have to be GR rest of the life :facesmack:)
KR thorkil
 
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