Nikkor Z Mount Lenses

[Darin Marcus]

Back to topic after too long OT discussions ....

Z mount structure and design presented by Optical Engineer from Nikon

https://www.youtube.com/attribution...u=/watch?v=hMs2DSfBbJc&feature=em-uploademail

Thanks for posting this here.
I've seen the video before, but I don't remember on which site Too bad that the information we need as customers to make a good decision is spread out in so many places.

Some additional information about the Z mount and lenses is available in the summarized interview with 3 Nikon engineers by Imaging Resource: https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/08/28/nikon-z7-engineer-interview-deep-dive-q.

One thing that was not evident to me until I read this article is that the short flange distance can make dust specs on the sensor problematic at larger apertures than before

 

[Darin Marcus]

Those MTF curves of 1.8 primes, although theoretical, look . But that could be the only benefit. Size-wise both are the same, and IBIS didn't make the lenses smaller

It is my understanding that Nikon engineers decided to use the extra space made available by the larger Z mount and the lack of in-lens VR sub-systems to improve the optics and to use more powerful (and larger) focus motors in the first prime lens bodies rather than to make the lenses smaller. I expect however that they will produce some smaller equivalent lenses in the future. I am curious to see how the f/2.8 zoom lenses will compare.

 

[thrice]

On the topic of focus motors, they have gone with linear stepper motors. These are not in the same ball park as USM/SSM when it comes to speed/silence.

It is my understanding that Nikon engineers decided to use the extra space made available by the larger Z mount and the lack of in-lens VR sub-systems to improve the optics and to use more powerful (and larger) focus motors in the first prime lens bodies rather than to make the lenses smaller. I expect however that they will produce some smaller equivalent lenses in the future. I am curious to see how the f/2.8 zoom lenses will compare.

 

[Darin Marcus]

On the topic of focus motors, they have gone with linear stepper motors. These are not in the same ball park as USM/SSM when it comes to speed/silence.

Hmmm - we will have to test this in the field when the equipment becomes available. Nikon’s claim on the 24-70mm Z page is “ultra-quiet new stepping motor (STM) powers fast, near-silent AF and aperture adjustments” that also works very well for video.

I know that the AF-S motors do not work well with a hybrid focus system that includes contrast detection - that is why Nikon recently introduced AF-P lenses to the F mount. These AF-P lenses (with pulse stepping motors) work much better in DSLR Live View mode, which is based on contrast detection. I would expect the Z lenses to be much better than the AF-P lenses when it comes to precise, fast and quiet focus.

 

[jdphoto]

A quick browsing of your recent posts here shows that you took photos with a Nikon Df, a Nikon D700, a Fujifilm X100S and some Leica Ms. Do you still own these camera, or have you sold them all because they each have only one card slot?

As for me, I shot with a D40 and a D700, and currently have a J5 and a Df - all with only one card slot - and a D810 on which I only use the CF slot when shooting. I don’t care one bit that the Z6 has only one card slot. I am really looking forward to trying CFexpress cards!

Interesting point, but it only takes one card fail during a wedding shoot to convince yourself for a two card backup solution. It's also much easier then convincing the wedding party to start over.

 

[rayyan]

Wrong again Darin.

You should read, and browse carefully, if you want to quote and offer your differing POV.

1. Read the last sentence of the first post in this thread.This is where the ‘ bitching ‘ of the glaring omission of the 2nd card slot was first mentioned.

2. Not having any interest in some other brand camera threads; you should remain silent about my image postings and camera selections.
Else you come off as someone commenting about me, without any knowledge of
my camera usage.

3. Did you miss my posts re: D70s, D200, D300, and other Nikons?

Gentle advice, unwanted maybe, but here it is...if you comment re: my posts or camera usage...spend time browsing my posts..not a ‘ quick ‘ browse.
It shall save you some embarrassment.

Kind regards.

Hello rayyan,

The first thing I notice (with no browsing needed) is that you are complaining about a camera issue (missing second card slot) in a thread about the Z mount lenses. A little browsing shows that you have already complained about this issue in the mirrorless thread. This lens thread will still be relevant with future Z cameras, some of which may have 2 card slots. So why go off topic with the card slot issue here?

I have no interest in telling you what to buy and what to use. Likewise, other people's complaints about the Z cameras will not influence me one bit as long as I tested them hands-on and found that they work well for me.

I also have no interest in Fujifilm cameras so I will not follow your posts in that forum. I too owned an X100S, and found that X-TRANS does not work at all for me. I sold it and got a Df instead - for the retro controls and shooting experience (not to mention the sensor...).

Anyway, this is the last time I will discuss camera issues in this lens thread.

 

[Photon42]

Thanks! I contribute arguments, not verdicts



The only reason for mentioning the D40 was to show that from my first DSLR and to my very last I only used 1 card slot when taking photos.



I don't see that as a fact. For example, [...]

Thanks alright ... I did not write about the features per se but their initial reception of the internet "community".

Cheers
Ivo

 

[Photon42]

Thanks! I contribute arguments, not verdicts



[...]

As you may guess my mother tongue is not English - so I double checked the meaning of argumentative in regard to your statement. I still think it is spot on.

 

[jdphoto]

Oddly, this has turned into a SD card thread! Two cards are common in today's cameras, even "pro/consumer models. I think many view the one card option from Nikon's Z series as a major design flaw and undoubtedly Nikon will have a newer model featuring a two card slot. Then planned obsolescence will have convinced photographers it's better to have it and not need it.

 

[Darin Marcus]

2. Not having any interest in some other brand camera threads; you should remain silent about my image postings and camera selections.
Else you come off as someone commenting about me, without any knowledge of my camera usage.

Very well - from now on I shall remain silent about your camera selections, your image postings, and any other kind of postings you make.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Very well - from now on I shall remain silent about your camera selections, your image postings, and any other kind of postings you make.

Add Rayyan to you ignore list like I did .

 

[D Fuller]

Oddly, this has turned into a SD card thread! Two cards are common in today's cameras, even "pro/consumer models. I think many view the one card option from Nikon's Z series as a major design flaw and undoubtedly Nikon will have a newer model featuring a two card slot. Then planned obsolescence will have convinced photographers it's better to have it and not need it.

Foe what it’s worth (which I freely admit is not much) I’ve hated SD cards since their introduction. They have always seemed fragile, slow, and better suited to “consumer electronics” than a camera with which I make my living. So even though I’ve never had a card of any kind fail, I’m happy Nikon chose a better format for its new camera line. For me, that’s far preferable to two of the hated SD slots.

 

[Thorkil]

Dear Rayyan and Darin
First I must admit I have not read all your words, just a few here and there.
If you both were living here in Denmark, and perhaps even better here in Copenhagen,
I would have invited you both to a cup of coffee and some Danish danish (in danish : wienerbrød), or just some danish cakes, for ex. a Sarah Berhardt cokie, which perhaps the danes are doing best.
Then we could talk about how we save the world, how the society save the poor, and how it in the best way preserve the exquisite race : Nikon-owners..
Unfortunately I couldn't have served a proper whisky, while I forgot to educate me in the whisky practice, even though I promished Jack to do some educating-tasting all along Nyhavn starting with the whisky...I don't remember).
But while you a not danes that invitation are in vain, even though I then would have showed you my new Z7, which I'm strongly convinced specially would suit you Rayyan (but in Z6-shape), while you
travel that much, and therefore I have a vision that you strongly would fall in love with it (despite few slots and a lacking 3D-AF-tracking - but we dont need it...we can both do with the reliable and fast single-point AF).
So I won't put on a kettle for now...else you can just say...and I will pour some water in...
thorkil

 

[rayyan]

Thank the Lord.
For His Mercies.

Add Rayyan to you ignore list like I did .

 

[rayyan]

Thanks Thorkil.
Copenhagen is just a hop by air!
I might ask you to put the kettle and make me some tea/coffee.

With kindest regards.

 

[Knorp]

Well, while you guys are enjoying a cup of coffee/tea, here's something to read: IR Interview: A deeper dive with the Nikon Z7 engineers

Spoiler alert:

F/0.95 is just the beginning?

 

[Darin Marcus]

Hello Roger,

Let's bring this thread back on track.

On the DSLR side, I am currently "all primes" - 24mm 1.8, 60mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8 (all the latest generation) + the CV 58mm 1.4 (the latest generation). I owned the AF-S 24-120 f/4 in my D700 years, but sold it after I moved to the D810.

I did opt for the 24-70 + Z6 kit because I want a little more flexibility at the beginning of my ZExperience

I also wonder if Nikon will repeat in the Z line their use of different focus motors for different types of lenses from the F mount: put more performant focus in the "pro" lenses (1), and (2) use the best focus motors in the pro zoom lenses - the 24-70 f/2.8 & 70-200 f/2.8 (I don't know much about the focus performance in the long focal primes - 300mm, 400mm, 500mm, etc. - to compare).

My local camera shop has a hands-on in about 2 weeks. I am curious to find out if there is any difference in focus performance between the 2 primes and the kit lens.

I think it will take Nikon a few years to start making lenses that take full advantage of the Z mount (and I am not talking here about the exotics). They need time to experiment with new dimensions, new materials and new coatings (they already have the ARNEO). I think I will not jump on the first gen lenses unless I really need them.

Also curious: there is no macro lens in the current roadmap.

 

[Darin Marcus]

Well, while you guys are enjoying a cup of coffee/tea, here's something to read: IR Interview: A deeper dive with the Nikon Z7 engineers

Quite interesting discussion there (I also posted the link in #21 )

Corroborating with what Thom Hogan wrote after his off-the-record discussion with Nikon optics engineers it seems that they now have a much larger playground to test new ideas and new materials, and they are happy about it. But I think it will take some time before we start getting the "real deal".

Also interesting is the way they are organized: 1st Designing Section, 1st Designing Department, Development Sector; 1st Optical Designing Section, 3rd Designing Department, Optical Engineering Division, etc. It looks like parallel teams organized in different sections, different departments, and so on. I wonder if they do parallel designs (with different solutions) for the same product, or just work on different products altogether.

 

[Thorkil]

Thanks Thorkil.
Copenhagen is just a hop by air!
I might ask you to put the kettle and make me some tea/coffee.

With kindest regards.

You shall be very welcome, Rayyan

 

[glenerrolrd]

For the most part the engineers are showing an enlightened viewpoint for the new lenses . The trade offs between performance ,speed ,size and cost have shown up in plenty of lenses kits available now .

Leica has routinely favored size, image quality, speed and let the cost fall out wherever . This has resulted in some terrific M lenses ...the 50/APO ,the 28/1.4 asph etc . Manual lenses with the M mount can be a lot smaller . But the cost of making such complete designs is multiples of their competition .

Zeiss took a practical approach with their ZM line ..opting to use simplified formulas that could be more easily manufactured in asia . With the OTUS line they are giving no quarter to performance but the designs resulted in huge heavy manual focus lenses .

Nikon has started to separate the F lenses ....... faster professional 1.4 lenses and the telephotos i, an expensive line of lenses ..while introducing smaller less expensive 1.8 lenses . They can produce to whatever standard you might want .

The Z lenses particularly the primes ..on paper ...meet a very attractive specification . Pretty darn cheap , reasonable size (not pancake ) ,fast enough for most .....if the IQ matches Nikon s professional F lenses (eg. 105/1.4 ;28/1.4 etc) they will have a winner .

I am finding I almost never need more than 3-4 lenses for any project/trip etc . They need to be small and fast with brilliant IQ...don t care much about cheap . I do recognize that for Nikon to be successful they understand how pricing affects demand .