Z7 - Banding issue in everyday practice?

[BeuBu]

Hi guys,
I'm just on the point to invest into the Z7 incl. lens. But the recently discovered banding issue makes me a bit nervous. If I understood right, it will be visible beyond +4ev increase of exposure.
I'm shooting mostly landscapes (beutnagel-buchner.com) with my Leica M240, but want to upgrade to more resolution (for bigger prints) and want to use tilt-shift lenses.
Has anybody already experience with the Z7 for landscapes with high dynamic scenes? Or can anybody explain what the banding issue would mean in high dynamic scenes? Would it mean that I can't make use of the whole dynamic range in certain scenes?

Thanks and best regards from Stuttgart, Germany,
Uwe

 

[Jan Brittenson]

It means you get barely discernible horizontal bands across the image if you try to lift the shadows more than 4 stops, and strong banding at 6 stops.

That's a lot of shadow lifting. In fact, it's more along the lines of image recovery IMO... A photographer who relies on this in lieu of fill light isn't doing it right.

Still, there's no good reason for a camera to band, and Nikon should have nailed this by now. Ugly noise yes, banding no.

It doesn't appear to band if the adjustment is via the ISO setting, so my guess is it's purely some quantization artifact that I suspect they will fix in firmware.

 

[ptomsu]

A camera like the Z7 should not be shipped as long as such issues are valid. Nikon should have fixed that already long time ago, before even announcing this camera. I hope they will fix it asap! I am getting really tired of playing Beta-tester for newly released cameras, especially at such high price points.

Otherwise the Z7 looks very tempting to me!

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Four stops? Velvia at ISO 800? We are talking about photography, are we, or is this the computer art class?

 

[Vivek]

Total BS!

Compare it to the D850.

Four stops? Velvia at ISO 800? We are talking about photography, are we, or is this the computer art class?

 

[SrMphoto]

Hi guys,
I'm just on the point to invest into the Z7 incl. lens. But the recently discovered banding issue makes me a bit nervous. If I understood right, it will be visible beyond +4ev increase of exposure.
I'm shooting mostly landscapes (beutnagel-buchner.com) with my Leica M240, but want to upgrade to more resolution (for bigger prints) and want to use tilt-shift lenses.
Has anybody already experience with the Z7 for landscapes with high dynamic scenes? Or can anybody explain what the banding issue would mean in high dynamic scenes? Would it mean that I can't make use of the whole dynamic range in certain scenes?

Thanks and best regards from Stuttgart, Germany,
Uwe

The issue is still being investigated. I cannot reproduce it when lifting 5 stops, and it starts appearing once I destroy the image by lifting too much shadow. There may be some real-life situation where it can appear, but it is not clear when. Apart from DPR example, AFAIK, no Z7 owner has been able to reproduce it while still having a usable image. It also seems more prominent at lowest ISO (64) and starts disappearing with higher ISOs as the noise covers it up.

To me, it seems more FUD strategy than a real problem. However, if you are concerned, I would wait a bit. People are investigating it.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Total BS!

Compare it to the D850.

The D850 doesn't have on-chip PD AF. How many stops can you pull images from Canon cameras that have on-chip PD-AF?

Mirrorless comes at a price. Don't expect mirrorless cameras to behave like DSLR.

 

[Vivek]

Mirrorless comes at a price. Don't expect mirrorless cameras to behave like DSLR.

This being a first generation mirrorless for Nikon, that is the case.

 

[Thorkil]

Well, but according to Tony Northrup's video its even worse at the A7's and the new Canon R's, so....
so the Nikon is appearently class-leading with less banding it seems...:bugeyes:
so after 5 long years Sony didn't even manage it seems...but on the other hand, its okay to be lazy, so Sony just give it 5 more years, it's okay I think, just take your time.... :angel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=299ZpvbDjrg

 

[Vivek]

Thorkil, It was a wise choice that you decided to sit out this Canon, Sony, etc, including the Nikon Z.

 

[Thorkil]

I'm not sitting on the Z7 yet, but its on its way I guess, banding or no banding. I will just be patient. Even ones wife isn't perfect, so...a little banding when lifting the shadows 6 stops shall be welcome..:angel:
(as long as it ain't that nasty as Sony and Canon )

 

[Vivek]

It is all a matter of cost/benefit. “Perfect” or not!

[Atleast, Canon EOS R does not have a Sony sensor! oke: :grin:]

 

[ptomsu]

I'm not sitting on the Z7 yet, but its on its way I guess, banding or no banding. I will just be patient. Even ones wife isn't perfect, so...a little banding when lifting the shadows 6 stops shall be welcome..:angel:
(as long as it ain't that nasty as Sony and Canon )

Just imagine what would happen if shadows on anyone's wife would be lifted 6 stops :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Vivek]

Just imagine what would happen if shadows on anyone's wife would be lifted 6 stops :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Hey, if a Z7 is used, one can always blame it on the camera banding! :grin:

 

[SrMphoto]

Thom Hogan has started a Z7/Z6 blog:
http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/camera-database/nikon-z-mirrorless-cameras/nikon-z6z7-blog/

Regarding banding he says:
"Is there evidence of non-random noise in the FPN? Yes. Can you promote that to visible banding? Sure, but I can do that easier on my Sony cameras, despite the fact that they measure slightly better. Have I ever encountered an image where I’ve done that? No. "

He also feels that running tigers (AF-C) are better shot with a7rIII than with Z7 (though a D5 is preferred).

 

[JPL]

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-banding/