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Nikon Z7 'issues' (to put it mildly)

tashley

Subscriber Member
I picked up my Z7 today with the 24-70 zoom, fairly aware that some reviews have been very positive indeed and that others have noticed some flies in the ointment.n I loved my D800 and D810 and was really looking forward to something like that but with the latest sensor, mirrorless and a really small form factor - hopefully to displace a lot of other kit I currently have and cover many different bases.

Bear in mind that I've had a vast, truly vast, number of cameras and lenses. Currently using an A7RIII, a Phase IQ3 100, a Leica CL and a Hassy X1D - and that's not the lot by any means. So I am generally used to knowing after my first walk with a new camera if it is going to cut the mustard.

At first sight the Z7 is just nasty.

I think (and I could be wrong, that's what a lot of eliminative testing is for) that it's a combination of a poorly QCd lens and a lot of shutter slap. It really is very hard to tell without doing a full barrel load of tests. But I shot my usual casual aperture series of a distant hillside and the results were very poor. This is a scene that I've shot every camera/lens combination I've ever owned on, and I know what to expect. Today's results were grim.

Now I know everyone will demand to see examples and will want to drill into the minutiae of methodology etc, but in my experience, this camera/lens combination is clearly flawed and so my question here is:

1) Has anyone else had what looks like really pronounced shutter slap (think A7RI or worse) causing obvious image degradation? (I shot in regular shutter mode)
2) Has anyone else found the lens to be far weaker than most reviews would suggest
3) Has anyone had really strong violet/purple fringing, much more than the reviews would suggest?

I am tempted just to return the thing but curious to know what others have found.

Thanks

ps here's a link to some shots that show what I mean. Shot RAW and developed in LR with sharpening set to 60/0.7/70/20 and clarity and vibrance to +10 each. That's my baseline for this sort of sensor. Exported at 92% quality jpeg full size, so they can be downloaded and peeped if anyone's planning a quiet night in...

Zenfolio is processing the shots post upload right now so it might be a few minutes before they can be downloaded.

https://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p406314791
 
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Vivek

Guest
Tim,

The Sony A7R did not have an e first curtain shutter.

Did you engage the EFCS in your Z7?
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Tim, sorry to hear that you are not happy with your Z7. Similar to you I own and use a7rIII, CL, X1D and H6D-100 instead of Phase One. I find Z7 to be an excellent camera.

I would definitely use EFCS unless you need shutter speeds above 1/2000. Even more, for the type of images you linked to, I would use the silent (electronic) shutter. Very happy with my 24-70 S lens, you can check Jim Kasson's blog for evaluation of that lens by someone who is familiar with Sonys as well.
 

Oren Grad

Active member
Re Z7 shutter shock, have a look at Jim Kasson's blog:

the last word

Just over the past few days he's put up multiple posts reporting results of various tests of the Z7 mechanical shutter vs EFCS vs pure electronic shutter. The TL;DR version is that he's concluded his default setting should be EFCS. But the posts have quantitative detail for his different test scenarios.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Thanks all. Hmmm. It seems like the fairly deeply buried EFC is going to be the next iteration of testing to ascertain whether all of the lemon-like behaviour is down to shutter slap rather than the lens.

Jim Kasson's findings are very interesting here and I will read them in more depth. Much appreciated. I wonder of there's any DR disadvantage to using EFC? Clearly using the pure electric shutter runs the risk of readout issues if there's any movement so that's a fairly specific use case.

On the fringing, part of the issue is that I have been trying to migrate mostly to CC rather than Classic and CC has no 'defringe' option. The files clean up nicely in Classic but honestly, there's quite pronounced fringing evident in many of my first small number of shots.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I don't own this camera and lens, and wasn't able to download the full resolution samples, so cannot really comment. However, there's some very heavy vignetting at 24 and 70mm f/4. Is that normal for this lens? The review at Photographylife mentions vignetting, but compared it to that of the Nikkor 24-120mm f/4, a lens I've used extensively with the D810, but I never expereinced it as bad with that lens as I see in these photos.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Thanks all. Hmmm. It seems like the fairly deeply buried EFC is going to be the next iteration of testing to ascertain whether all of the lemon-like behaviour is down to shutter slap rather than the lens.

Jim Kasson's findings are very interesting here and I will read them in more depth. Much appreciated. I wonder of there's any DR disadvantage to using EFC? Clearly using the pure electric shutter runs the risk of readout issues if there's any movement so that's a fairly specific use case.

On the fringing, part of the issue is that I have been trying to migrate mostly to CC rather than Classic and CC has no 'defringe' option. The files clean up nicely in Classic but honestly, there's quite pronounced fringing evident in many of my first small number of shots.
There have been no reports of any negative effect of using EFCS, except that Nikon limits its usage to up to 1/2000. Ming reported that there is a bit depth reduction with electronic/silent shutter but nobody has confirmed that.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
I don't own this camera and lens, and wasn't able to download the full resolution samples, so cannot really comment. However, there's some very heavy vignetting at 24 and 70mm f/4. Is that normal for this lens? The review at Photographylife mentions vignetting, but compared it to that of the Nikkor 24-120mm f/4, a lens I've used extensively with the D810, but I never expereinced it as bad with that lens as I see in these photos.
24-70 S f4 has noticeable distortion and vignetting at wide end when wide open which is corrected automatically with the built-in profile in Lightroom. I find that Nikon's Capture NX-D does a better job of vignetting removal than LR. Some people hacked Z7 files in order to make them openable, in which cases those 'mandatory' corrections were not applied and vignetting was more pronounced.
 

Photon42

Well-known member
Sorry to hear about your problems with the Z.

1) Has anyone else had what looks like really pronounced shutter slap (think A7RI or worse) causing obvious image degradation? (I shot in regular shutter mode)
I have not. I was also able to shoot at 1/8s with the zoom lens at 50mm close-up with no issues.

2) Has anyone else found the lens to be far weaker than most reviews would suggest
I did not really read a lot of reviews for this lens, but I find it very sharp across the frame.

3) Has anyone had really strong violet/purple fringing, much more than the reviews would suggest?
Not at all, but then LR applies lens profiles, if I am not mistaken. Have you got the very latest LR updates installed? There was also a change in the default camera profile, if I am not mistaken.

Ivo
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Hi Tim,

I do think there are a number of small issues that will be dealt with over time with the Z 7.

I had to dive into the menus to find the D menu setting for EFC ... have not spent too much time with it as
I have been using the Z as a B camera for video mostly this past week. After reading Jim Kasson's blog
I will use EFC for most still work below 1/2000 ... I have the heavy tripod setup that does not eliminate
the slap issue. There is a significant diminution of sound from the shutter with EFC ... hope that correlates
to what he has described.

I think the 24 - 70 is an ok lens ... not stellar and will limit the camera although it is convenient for
travel. The 35 1.8 is in another class ... image wise. Build quality is uninspiring but it really is a sharp
lens with good contrast.

While it adds a bit to the workflow ... I think that Capture NX-D is far ahead of LR when it comes to RAW
conversion ... better color and image at this point.

I prefer to shoot in a flat profile with things dialed down and then gently raise them in post. The standard
profile seems overly processed and big to my eye.

While you are on Jim Kasson's site look at his color evaluation of LR conversion ... a great source for information
that saves you a lot of tedious testing.

I am very interested in adapting my favorite manual lenses on this body when Novoflex and Kipon start shipping
lens adapters.

We are very early into this sensor and body ... I imagine that most of the issues will be sorted in time.
 

JPL

Member
Little update as I have been curious to look into that a bit more in depth...

To your three question:
1) no
2) no
3) no

may be a lemmon?

JP
Handheld there is a visible difference between mechanical shutter and EFCS - Well visible for instance with the 70-200 VR E at 200... or with the native 24-70.

I have not really noticed since I used it mainly with lenses shorter than 35mm in full daylight....

Good to know for sure!

JP
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
"Bear in mind that I've had a vast, truly vast, number of cameras and lenses."

LOL me too
Another +1.

That said, I have no Nikons (other than a classic F plain prism and two lenses) anymore, and have zero interest in restarting that acquisition treadmill. I'm very content with what I have now and have lost the desire to go exploring 'new, state of the art' equipment. I'm so, so relieved by this.

:D

G
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
I wish I was in that state of mind Godfrey, but I aint.
I just have to try to have this as for the last gear-thing...
:rolleyes:
(PS. nice that there are even more members trying it out right now...pictures gentlemen...pictures, silly, not-silly, dull, boring, lively, careless, carefull...)
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I don't own this camera and lens, and wasn't able to download the full resolution samples, so cannot really comment. However, there's some very heavy vignetting at 24 and 70mm f/4. Is that normal for this lens? The review at Photographylife mentions vignetting, but compared it to that of the Nikkor 24-120mm f/4, a lens I've used extensively with the D810, but I never expereinced it as bad with that lens as I see in these photos.
I'm slightly immune to vignetting because I often add it back in and I rather like it but I agree that at certain focal lengths and apertures it is quite strong on this lens. It doesn't always clean up all that well into the far corners, either.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Sorry to hear about your problems with the Z.



I have not. I was also able to shoot at 1/8s with the zoom lens at 50mm close-up with no issues.



I did not really read a lot of reviews for this lens, but I find it very sharp across the frame.



Not at all, but then LR applies lens profiles, if I am not mistaken. Have you got the very latest LR updates installed? There was also a change in the default camera profile, if I am not mistaken.

Ivo
Hi Ivo,

I can clean it up nicely using LR CC Classic, it's just one click away. But on LR CC itself, to which I have largely migrated, there's no defringe tool as of yet and the built in profiles and corrections deal with CA in general but not this sort of fringing specifically.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Hi Tim,

I do think there are a number of small issues that will be dealt with over time with the Z 7.

I had to dive into the menus to find the D menu setting for EFC ... have not spent too much time with it as
I have been using the Z as a B camera for video mostly this past week. After reading Jim Kasson's blog
I will use EFC for most still work below 1/2000 ... I have the heavy tripod setup that does not eliminate
the slap issue. There is a significant diminution of sound from the shutter with EFC ... hope that correlates
to what he has described.

I think the 24 - 70 is an ok lens ... not stellar and will limit the camera although it is convenient for
travel. The 35 1.8 is in another class ... image wise. Build quality is uninspiring but it really is a sharp
lens with good contrast.

While it adds a bit to the workflow ... I think that Capture NX-D is far ahead of LR when it comes to RAW
conversion ... better color and image at this point.

I prefer to shoot in a flat profile with things dialed down and then gently raise them in post. The standard
profile seems overly processed and big to my eye.

While you are on Jim Kasson's site look at his color evaluation of LR conversion ... a great source for information
that saves you a lot of tedious testing.

I am very interested in adapting my favorite manual lenses on this body when Novoflex and Kipon start shipping
lens adapters.

We are very early into this sensor and body ... I imagine that most of the issues will be sorted in time.
I'm also looking forward to some adaptors - particularly for my M mount glass. And thanks for the suggestion about Jim's work on colour, I will take a look. As for Capture NX, I think I'll give Capture One a try first: it has taken me years to uninstall Capture NX and to stop it nagging me constantly with popups. I always hated it, and always will!

Per the matter of EFC being menu-buried, I totally agree: Lord knows how many people will have purchased the camera and been really shocked at the results out of the box. Turning on EFC has made a vast, vast difference, turning it from a dog into a really excellent system, all with one hidden menu item...
 
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