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d850 vs d810

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Okay, I could read it now -- must have been some other site weirdness earlier. I agree Jorgen, sort of a "meh" report.

End of day, I can find faults with every lens I own on the D810 -- meaning none of them hold up to 36MP from edge to edge. However, most are more than adequate enough to make excellent images -- even including my lowly 24-120 zoom ;)
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Okay, I could read it now -- must have been some other site weirdness earlier. I agree Jorgen, sort of a "meh" report.

End of day, I can find faults with every lens I own on the D810 -- meaning none of them hold up to 36MP from edge to edge. However, most are more than adequate enough to make excellent images -- even including my lowly 24-120 zoom ;)
Jack, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the 105mm 1.4 E on the D810?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Jack, I'm curious what your thoughts are on the 105mm 1.4 E on the D810?
I have not shot it yet JD, so at present have nothing to offer. From some reviews, it may however be the one exception to my comment above -- but I remain suspect even it would hold full 36MP in the corners.

To further support my comment above about lens performance, I made this image with my worst performing lens, the lowly 24-120. It was further handheld at 1/8th sec, but with it's VR on, and at 24mm and f8 IIRC. The only caveat is it was made with the older D800 non-E, but still 36MP body. Anyway, it prints beautifully at 20"x30" (even if you stick your nose in the print and look for warts :LOL:) and is very well received. My point here is it really begs the question as to how important is "perfect" lens performance? I think not so much as most of us place on it :)

 
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jdphoto

Well-known member
I have not shot it yet JD, so at present have nothing to offer. From some reviews, it may however be the one exception to my comment above -- but I remain suspect even it would hold full 36MP in the corners.

To further support my comment above about lens performance, I made this image with my worst performing lens, the lowly 24-120. It was further handheld at 1/8th sec, but with it's VR on, and at 24mm and f8 IIRC. The only caveat is it was made with the older D800 non-E, but still 36MP body. Anyway, it prints beautifully at 20"x30" (even if you stick your nose in the print and look for warts :LOL:) and is very well received. My point here is it really begs the question as to how important is "perfect" lens performance? I think not so much as most of us place on it :)

That's a great image Jack! It would make a great B/W too. Thanks for the input. VR really is impressive. I have the option to purchase a new 85mm 1.4G for $1275 or a used 70-200 f/2.8 VRII for $1300. I need a portrait lens and usually shoot only primes. This will be on a D810, which I think is quite amazing and the 85mm might give me more utility.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
That's a great image Jack! It would make a great B/W too.
Thank you JD -- I actually did a mono version, but this original capture is so muted I think it works a bit better in some respects ;)

I have the option to purchase a new 85mm 1.4G for $1275 or a used 70-200 f/2.8 VRII for $1300. I need a portrait lens and usually shoot only primes. This will be on a D810, which I think is quite amazing and the 85mm might give me more utility.
My .02 on those choices. I've owned the 80-200 VR and it was excellent. But it was also a relative beast and it didn't have any particular "mojo" at the short end for portraits; though it was pretty nice after about 150mm. By contrast on the 85/1.4G, I struggled when I sold my 105 DC and very nearly kept it as my main portrait and sold off that 85. But in the end, it was just enough "looser" compositionally that it worked better for my portrait style. That 85 --or at least my copy-- is optically awesome for portraits, hold nice juice to f4 or f5.6 and is incredibly sharp centrally even wide open. Only nit is you will absolutely need to run blur in post for any woman you photograph over about 30 years old ;) Here is one area the 105DC absolutely shined. Anyway, as re the 80-200, I "replaced" it with the f4 VR model, equally sharp but of course a stop slower and half the weight, and still no real juice so I never use it. Finally, my replacement for the "long end" portrait telephoto is the Sigma 150mm Macro --- it does double duty as a macro and tight portrait lens, yet is significantly smaller than the Sigma 180 macro or the 80-200 f2.8 zooms. All FWIW...
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
From using both, I would find it hard not to go ahead right now and purchase the D850 (if new is considered) since D810 and D850 are about 400.00 difference in price as long as Nikon holds the rebates in place.

Thoughts:

D810

Wonderful camera, with the best overall DR at base ISO I have ever shot, 3.5 stops of possible push from 64 ISO

So So high ISO performance, much past 2000 gets pretty noisy

With the white dot fix (you have to google that), an excellent night camera for star trail work and OK for milky way astro (but D750 or D810A are better for the later)

36MP resolution is very good and with the release of Topaz AI Gigapixel, getting larger prints from a starting resolution of 36MP is a very easy thing to do

D850

Articulation of LCD (big deal for me) as I like to shoot low at times. Just don't have the flexibility I used to have. Plus makes waist level shooting easier, at least for me. Would have preferred a vertical articulation like the Fuji screens.

Touch screen on rear LCD, allows for Touch AF, and touch shutter, I find at times comes in very handy

Better LCD on rear of camera and better implementation of 100% view. Double tap on LCD get 100% view. D810 over zooms past 100%. and needs to be brought down 3 steps (by default)

Slightly better high ISO performance. The BSI chip has 2x gain at 800 and beyond. I now just jump to 800 once I need more than 200 ISO.

Slightly less DR than D810, I don't see the same amount of shadow push as the D810, maybe only 2 stops at times 2.5. But noise is there faster than with the D810 at least from my work.

Full e shutter, huge huge advantage for long lens work. Since viewfinder is optical, you have to frame from back LCD, but you can shoot the e shutter hand held, and in low light. The lack of vibration with long lenses is pretty impressive.

Works OK for night work, but shows noise a bit faster on a warmer night. Still experimenting here, but I have the D810A and it gets most of my night work besides a Pentax K1.

Ergonomics, the grip on the D850 is better, larger one of the first things I noticed.

Can't really speak to the Z camera. For now lack of lenses and need for an adapter makes the camera off my list. I have shot it, and love it's size and weight. As I mentioned else where, Nikon missed a great opportunity, when they did not allow for pixel shift shooting with Z7 and Z6. They have one of the best most stable IBIS setups on the market.

Both are great cameras, I would recommend renting both if you are in the US from lenrentals.com

Paul C
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
That's a great image Jack! It would make a great B/W too. Thanks for the input. VR really is impressive. I have the option to purchase a new 85mm 1.4G for $1275 or a used 70-200 f/2.8 VRII for $1300. I need a portrait lens and usually shoot only primes. This will be on a D810, which I think is quite amazing and the 85mm might give me more utility.
The 70-200 2.8 VRII was my fav lens when I was going wedding/engagement stuff....the extra reach of the tele came in super handy, as was the ability to go wider than 85mm sometimes. YMMV but I don’t think you can wrong with either.
 

robdeszan

Member
Well, I thought I'd mention that after seeing the z6/z7 in person and evaluating their EVFs I decided to give a Z6 a go (!) to mainly pair it with my manual focus Zeiss lenses and, if the experience is pleasing, perhaps replace the DF for travel. It should arrive within the next few days. I will feed back once I've shot both side by side. Thanks again for your suggestions!
 

robdeszan

Member
I had a decent play with the Z6 and there are some definite improvements, especially in the obvious manual focusing department (focus peaking and the ability to zoom in at the touch of a button); ergonomics are great, AF is very swift, focusing point spread means framing is no longer limited by the centralized focus point; VR works etc. However, the files lack a certain level of acuity. Coming from a Df, with its 16MP, when I first opened them they looked rather mushy in comparison, despite a higher pixel count. The noise reduction on the files is very heavy as well. I found a post online by Michael Clarke (http://blog.michaelclarkphoto.com/?p=7887), commenting on the same image characteristic, where Adobe’s DNG converter renders the files very soft when opened in PhotoShop’s RAW editor. The person actually commented saying that at first glance they fought the camera was broken, which was my thought exactly. He did suggest some raw sharpening settings that did improve the overall look. Still, it is interesting as it really struck me, I’ve never noticed it past cameras, the Df or my ricoh GR. I am keeping medium format out of this comparison, naturally.

I am not sure if this is a characteristic of newer sensors but I had heard a similar comment re d810 vs d850, where d850’s Raw files look less sharp but are still sharper than Z7’s raw files, also commented on by the Northrup duo, and visible in dpreview RAW comparison samples (especially in the green feathers and leaves section). A fellow photographer, who had switched from a d810 to d850, also mentioned that in an email while commenting on the files. D850 had greater colour accuracy, according to him, but somewhat softer appearance in comparison to D810’s files. Anyway, while it is not easily quantifiable, but having now seen it myself, I understand exactly what they were all referring to. We’re talking all things being equal, electronic shutter, mirror lock up, IBIS off, tripods etc.

Would a Z7 be better? A fellow forum member, in a recent post, provided some Z7 vs Hasselblad files samples and, the Z7 files definitely share the same characteristic of Z6’s rendering, despite having no AA filter so I am not entirely sure whether a Z7 would solve this aspect entirely. The overall look is very similar.

Has anyone else noticed this?
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
I had a decent play with the Z6 and there are some definite improvements, especially in the obvious manual focusing department (focus peaking and the ability to zoom in at the touch of a button); ergonomics are great, AF is very swift, focusing point spread means framing is no longer limited by the centralized focus point; VR works etc. However, the files lack a certain level of acuity. Coming from a Df, with its 16MP, when I first opened them they looked rather mushy in comparison, despite a higher pixel count. The noise reduction on the files is very heavy as well. I found a post online by Michael Clarke (Equipment Review: Nikon Z6 » Michael Clark Photography), commenting on the same image characteristic, where Adobe’s DNG converter renders the files very soft when opened in PhotoShop’s RAW editor. The person actually commented saying that at first glance they fought the camera was broken, which was my thought exactly. He did suggest some raw sharpening settings that did improve the overall look. Still, it is interesting as it really struck me, I’ve never noticed it past cameras, the Df or my ricoh GR. I am keeping medium format out of this comparison, naturally.

I am not sure if this is a characteristic of newer sensors but I had heard a similar comment re d810 vs d850, where d850’s Raw files look less sharp but are still sharper than Z7’s raw files, also commented on by the Northrup duo, and visible in dpreview RAW comparison samples (especially in the green feathers and leaves section). A fellow photographer, who had switched from a d810 to d850, also mentioned that in an email while commenting on the files. D850 had greater colour accuracy, according to him, but somewhat softer appearance in comparison to D810’s files. Anyway, while it is not easily quantifiable, but having now seen it myself, I understand exactly what they were all referring to. We’re talking all things being equal, electronic shutter, mirror lock up, IBIS off, tripods etc.

Would a Z7 be better? A fellow forum member, in a recent post, provided some Z7 vs Hasselblad files samples and, the Z7 files definitely share the same characteristic of Z6’s rendering, despite having no AA filter so I am not entirely sure whether a Z7 would solve this aspect entirely. The overall look is very similar.

Has anyone else noticed this?
For my style, the D810 is sharper than the D850. My Z7 was sharper than my Z6. The physical dimensions of the pixels of the D810 vs D850, (36 vs 45 mp) favor the the larger photo sites for sharpness and allow more light to captured with cleaner images too. The BSI of the D850 might mitigate this difference, but I still think the D810 is one of the best sensors ever put in a camera. More pixels means very dense array that is more susceptible to bad technique. The Z6 has the OLPF, so won't be a sharp, but imo, it wasn't a dramatic difference either unless you crop. 24 mp is the most forgiving of bad technique and usually results in cleaner higher ISO pics. The Nikon Z is hands down the best mirrorless for MF lenses and especially Leica M lenses because of the thin stack of the sensor. The Z7 has AF points across the entire frame, so no more recomposing shots. I wouldn't pixel peep too much because all these cameras are capable of producing images that are probably beyond most photographers skill set. Get good lenses instead. There's incredible deals right now for the D810, D850 and also the Z's. The US models come with a free FTZ adapter and low actuation, D810's go for $1300. If comparing all these as per your comment, nothing is really equal when the Z's have 5 stop IBIS, no mirror slap and electronic shutter up to 1/2000th. Why not use it? Also, turn off IBIS if shooting above 1/1000th for better results. I've shot the Z7 at 1/15th while handholding and using the viewfinder. Something you can't really do with the DSLR's.
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
My D810 is sharper than the D850.
Sharpness is a relative trait and not simply a function of resolution, but also micro --or in this case-- inter-pixilary contrast. High MP sensors require a deft hand in post processing to bring out that inter-pixel contrast and make them sing. IMHO this is where C1 has an edge over LR...
 

robdeszan

Member
Thanks jdphoto,

Oh yes, the benefits are there absolutely but like I said, the softness almost took me by surprise. I used to own a d810 as well and that looked mushy compared to my merrills (different technologies) but yet I let go of the merrills ultimately as they were terrible for rendering skin. Sharpness is not everything for me. I could splash out for the Z7; I remember struggling with the d810's 36MP for handholdability without blur; having now used Z6, I think the Z7 would mitigate the handholdability limitation with a high megapixel DSLR.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Thanks jdphoto,

Oh yes, the benefits are there absolutely but like I said, the softness almost took me by surprise. I used to own a d810 as well and that looked mushy compared to my merrills (different technologies) but yet I let go of the merrills ultimately as they were terrible for rendering skin. Sharpness is not everything for me. I could splash out for the Z7; I remember struggling with the d810's 36MP for handholdability without blur; having now used Z6, I think the Z7 would mitigate the handholdability limitation with a high megapixel DSLR.
The D810/D850 are really capable cameras, especially, when deploying EFCS. Obviously, with the D810, you must use MU, but it works good for landscapes. I think Nikon's evolution to all mirrorless is inevitable, especially with the S lens design. For me I decided that IBIS is a feature I could really benefit from and use all my MF lenses with great success. The upcoming firmware from the Z should address most AF issues too.
 

pegelli

Well-known member


d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850, d850.................

:ROTFL:
 
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