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Z7 .. Z6 .. Z7 ..z6 ?

JohnBrew

Active member
Okay, so I got the Z7 on the next to last day of the rebate/trade-in offer. Yep, bye-bye Df. And I will be selling the D810, but I haven't listed it yet.
Anyway, a question for other Z owners. I'm finding the metering to underexpose by 1/2 stop. Mine does it consistently. Is this baked in by Nikon to protect highlights?

I've been running tests of the 50 1.8S versus the Otus 55. Interesting. I'm not certain I got the most out of the Zeiss so I'm going to do another test before the big reveal.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Congrats on the Z7 John. It is a great camera that once you're comfortable with the controls it's very intuitive. I sold my D810 too, but kept my 85mm 1.4G. I've adapted Leica M and R lenses with the newest acquisition being a R 100mm APO f2.8 with great success. Personally, I think the Z's are the best for that purpose and the native 50mm 1.8S is incredibly sharp across the frame. I think the comparison to the Otus should be similar, but curious on what you've determined. The build quality of the Z is outstanding too. I'm actually thinking about a Z6 as a backup for client shoots or maybe, just maybe another D810.
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Okay, so I got the Z7 on the next to last day of the rebate/trade-in offer. Yep, bye-bye Df. And I will be selling the D810, but I haven't listed it yet.
Anyway, a question for other Z owners. I'm finding the metering to underexpose by 1/2 stop. Mine does it consistently. Is this baked in by Nikon to protect highlights?

I've been running tests of the 50 1.8S versus the Otus 55. Interesting. I'm not certain I got the most out of the Zeiss so I'm going to do another test before the big reveal.
(perhaps keep the Df, John, with some elegant drawing FX-lenses)
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Thanks for the comments. About the Df...I bought it in June or July and then we had five months of moving turmoil and I didn't really use the camera until the december holidays. Then I put it back in the closet. It's a nice camera body, but frankly, I prefer my old digital Leica M's for that type of shooting.

I don't know if everyone is aware of the baked in lens corrections for the S lenses. When I first opened a Z file and went to the lens correction panel there was a notice that the corrections had already been performed. I accepted this and went on with my processing. Then when I got the 50 1.8 I questioned these corrections and just for grins clicked on the drop down menu under "Make" and clicked on Nikon. Low and behold there was another level of corrections! And my S lens popped up below the make.
Something to watch for. Oh, when I discovered this I went back to a 24-70 image and clicked on it and the pincushion distortion went away. At first it showed the wrong lens but I found the correct one in the menu - it didn't seem to matter for some reason they both corrected the distortion.
Maybe this will help someone and if I've got it wrong then more than happy to stand corrected and learn some more.

One more item. I'll be using the 105 2.5Ai, 70-200/4 and 300/4 with the adapter. I haven't actually tried the 105 yet. Somewhere I read where the Ai lens had some problem but I'll find out for myself.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Hi John, are you talking about in-camera-lens-correction or in software, C1 or?
best
Actually, both. Nikon has some kind of lens correction in-camera so that when you download an image there has already been some corrections done.
Then you can go to your software of choice (I use ACR) and do a further correction, which I have found to be correction of pin cushion distortion.
Unfortunately you'll have to use the vignette slider to get rid of vignetting from the 24-70/4. Perhaps a firmware update by Nikon will address that issue.
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
I found it on the Z7, but it won't alter anything it seems. And still no support from C1, but I will be patiently waiting :), while its the only software I use
The distortion, pincushion and barrel, is rather complex at the 24-70 f4 S, so buildings, specially when tilting, are difficult to correct, so its hard to use there
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
...just to tell, C1 is updated to version 12.0.3, and the Z24-70S is now supported, but not the 35/1.8S or the 50/1.8S yet, but then its also the 24-70S that needed it the most.
The very complex distortion in these buildings along the postmans bicycle seems to be gone, but while they are very old buildings, the facades are not totally vertical
And in the reflection pictures where distortion also were complicated is totally gone..:thumbup:





Nikon Z7 with 24-70/4S iso64 1/60 f4 49mm NEF-autocorrected through C1pro12.0.3win
Stockholm it was






Nikon Z7 with 24-70/4S iso2000 1/60 f4 49mm NEF-autocorrected through C1pro12.0.3win
Stockholm it was



thorkil
(Ps. I feel like a lucky man now, able to use the Z24-70/4S in the city too)
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
I suspect that the reason there is an AA filter in the Z6 is that it is very much a video-oriented camera. Unlike still photography, it is nearly impossible to remove moire in video without resorting to heroic (read expensive) techniques.
There's also the fact that with an OLPF you know detail is heavily attenuated past a certain spatial corner frequency, and anything you capture past that is noise - so you can remove it with a spatial LPF on the capture data. On the flip side, because with an OLPF the signal attenuates quickly past the corner frequency, any noise there will stand out like a sore thumb in the absence of signal to mask it. So even with decimation to a video size frame you still need to apply an LPF when you have an OLPF. This is pre-demosaicing, so the image invariably will end up looking perceptually different. (Fine detail near the corner frequency will go kinda colorless as the chroma is low passed.) (Edit: video almost certainly uses on-sensor decimation since it would be impossible to acquire the full 46MP at 60fps. This is as far as I can tell done with skip patterns - subsampling - that depend on the color mosaic, while flipping a set of switches to combine the charge wells of the skipped sites. I wonder if the same is done for lower resolution stills...)
 
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Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
I just ordered a Z7. Yeah, color me odd but I want it for my collection of oddball M42 lenses, some old favorites I'd love to occasionally throw in the bag but which can't be used with Nikon DSLRs. I have a fine old Sony A850 just so I can still use many of my more vintage lenses, but let's face it - it's bigger than the lenses, so neither the A850 or the lenses ever go anywhere.

The Z7 on the other hand:
- Takes all my vintage lenses
- Takes all my Nikkors
- Is easier to drop in a bag or bring as the only body
- Provides a compact option to my Nikon DSLRs
- Is great for video
- Great nikon backup
- Sings and dances with Nikon flashes

Not pleased with the XQD only card. ($200 for a card and USB-3 reader. Thanks, Nikon. Hope Sony gives you a good kickback.)

So got the Z7+adapter promo bundle and an M42 adapter that will probably do the job. I do wish someone made a decent native mount wide angle around 20mm for it, but I suppose I'll use my Zeiss ZF.2 18 for now. I look forward to putting my M42 Fujinon Fisheye back to good use! Love that lens. Never warmed up to the Nikon 16mm Fisheye...

It should also be a nice body for the 200/4 Micro, no AF with that lens, but I suppose that's okay.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
I just ordered a Z7. Yeah, color me odd but I want it for my collection of oddball M42 lenses, some old favorites I'd love to occasionally throw in the bag but which can't be used with Nikon DSLRs. I have a fine old Sony A850 just so I can still use many of my more vintage lenses, but let's face it - it's bigger than the lenses, so neither the A850 or the lenses ever go anywhere.

The Z7 on the other hand:
- Takes all my vintage lenses
- Takes all my Nikkors
- Is easier to drop in a bag or bring as the only body
- Provides a compact option to my Nikon DSLRs
- Is great for video
- Great nikon backup
- Sings and dances with Nikon flashes

Not pleased with the XQD only card. ($200 for a card and USB-3 reader. Thanks, Nikon. Hope Sony gives you a good kickback.)

So got the Z7+adapter promo bundle and an M42 adapter that will probably do the job. I do wish someone made a decent native mount wide angle around 20mm for it, but I suppose I'll use my Zeiss ZF.2 18 for now. I look forward to putting my M42 Fujinon Fisheye back to good use! Love that lens. Never warmed up to the Nikon 16mm Fisheye...

It should also be a nice body for the 200/4 Micro, no AF with that lens, but I suppose that's okay.
I hesitated about the Z7 because of the one XQD, but in theory, the one card would give faster performance than defaulting the speed to the second card. Having two card structures would actually increase the percentage of corrupted cards because of the different technologies working within the camera system. XQD is incredibly robust too. Just remember to only format in camera and don't swap cards with another camera. And definitely don't delete lots of photos in camera. Obviously, this would apply to any card, but the Z7 also has a very thin flange distance and wide diameter that in theory would allow for f/0.65 lenses! I'm loving my adapted lenses on this camera more than any other mirrorless camera. Lenses such as...Leica R 100mm APO/f2.8, Nikkor 50mm 1.2 AI-s, Leica M 50mm Lux (pre ASPH) and 28mm Elmarit. are simply incredible on the Z7. Actually, they might have even better performance on the Z6 because of "fatter Pixels". As far as native lenses go, the Z 50mm 1.8S is the sharpest 50 i've ever used. Corner to corner with smooth bokeh at 1.8 - It's on par with the Otus! It's very impressive what Nikon can do with this mount as no other mirrorless camera to date can match those dimensions of the flange, sensor and diameter of the Z mount.
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
Got my Z7 and took a quick break to give it a cursory lookover...

The FTZ works perfectly with all AF-S lenses I have. With my AF-D 200/4 Micro it works as expected - no AF, but will control the aperture properly. The AF point changes to green when in focus. Zeiss ZF.2 18/3.5 works perfectly, with VR, but without AF assists other than zooming in. The Rokinon 14 in F mount doesn't work at all; the body goes nuts with it attached and starts cycling apertures. Doesn't work. AI lenses are used stop-down only, not sure about AI-S since I don't have any...

Took a few minutes to figure out how to configure it, but I set it to auto select VF/rear screen and prefer VF. This way it works just like a DSLR - I can shoot through the viewfinder and it doesn't switch to live view when I take my eye off of it. The rear screen is used for info/menus/review/etc. I like it. For the rare occasion when I want a "live view" I can just turn it back on.

The EVF is really good (I had held the Z6 briefly previously, enough to confirm I could live with it). Nice and clear and all shooting info is outside the frame on a black border. The resolution is very good and until you get to like ISO 8000 it's not a noisy disaster. I prefer a good OVF, preferably clear 0.72x with framelines, but I can live with this EVF.

I wish the Info screen were more like the D800/D810 than the D850. The former really give a much better instant view. But it's okay.

I have an M42 adapter as well but haven't had time to play with it yet, but obviously this is all stop-down.
A Leica M adapter is on order, as is a SmallRig L bracket.
 

Darin Marcus

Well-known member
Got my Z7 and took a quick break to give it a cursory lookover...

The FTZ works perfectly with all AF-S lenses I have. With my AF-D 200/4 Micro it works as expected - no AF, but will control the aperture properly. The AF point changes to green when in focus. Zeiss ZF.2 18/3.5 works perfectly, with VR, but without AF assists other than zooming in. The Rokinon 14 in F mount doesn't work at all; the body goes nuts with it attached and starts cycling apertures. Doesn't work. AI lenses are used stop-down only, not sure about AI-S since I don't have any...

Took a few minutes to figure out how to configure it, but I set it to auto select VF/rear screen and prefer VF. This way it works just like a DSLR - I can shoot through the viewfinder and it doesn't switch to live view when I take my eye off of it. The rear screen is used for info/menus/review/etc. I like it. For the rare occasion when I want a "live view" I can just turn it back on.

The EVF is really good (I had held the Z6 briefly previously, enough to confirm I could live with it). Nice and clear and all shooting info is outside the frame on a black border. The resolution is very good and until you get to like ISO 8000 it's not a noisy disaster. I prefer a good OVF, preferably clear 0.72x with framelines, but I can live with this EVF.

I wish the Info screen were more like the D800/D810 than the D850. The former really give a much better instant view. But it's okay.

I have an M42 adapter as well but haven't had time to play with it yet, but obviously this is all stop-down.
A Leica M adapter is on order, as is a SmallRig L bracket.
Congrats on your purchase!

According to NikonRumors, it seems that the Z7 will get a significant rebate in the US starting on April 28...
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
According to NikonRumors, it seems that the Z7 will get a significant rebate in the US starting on April 28...
Of course it will! Right after I buy it! :scry:

I bought it from Amazon, and if it's still within their return window maybe they'll refund me the difference if I ask nicely.
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
My 13mo old dog Zoe... she hasn't experienced the "daddy's got a new camera" truma yet... The other one was smart enough to disappear. Z7 and 58/1.4G at f/4.8, 1/15s, ISO-A @ 1250. (Note to self: set the dang thing to half-stops...) Single AF point over her right eye, AF-C. I must say I really like this camera. Also just picked up a trial copy of C1 Pro 12 to check it out; I used to have version 3.x back in the dark ages, but their upgrade system doesn't handle that correctly and they haven't responded to any of my attempts to reach them, so either I buy it again for $300 or move on and try something else...

 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
Does the Z6 have better AF? Because the Z7 is pretty poor on AF-C - even my old D800E runs circles around it when it comes to AF-C tracking. Grabbed the camera, 70-200/4, and dog and went to the dog park to see how it would work out; for anything static the Z7 is excellent; for anything moving sideways, I'd say mostly very good; and on subjects moving towards the camera so-so. For a fast subject like a dog running towards the camera, forget it, 0% success rate on any of the AF-C modes; it just can't do it. The D800E gets about 50-70% on the same which I'd consider so-so (i.e. not an action camera if you get paid for results; I'd just get a D5/D500 for this) - the Z7 just flat out can't do it. Focus ends up about 1-2 feet behind the nose. It's not the lens (though it's not a fast focus lens) because if so the D800 couldn't do it either. So any talk of "the same AF system" etc is bull - it's not the same system. Good thing I didn't get the camera for this and I hardly ever shoot fast moving action. (If I did I'd probably get a D500.) It might be okay for sportsball - humans are a lot bigger and move slower than dogs. It might also work better with a longer lens at greater distance (less racking needed), but I think it's pretty clear it's not an action camera. It does track, it just consistently places focus too far back, indicating its control loop is too slow. (In technical terms, the error bound exceeds the range of its PID control, either through lack of measured precision or more likely inadequate sample rate.) At 5fps I ended up shooting in bursts to get sufficient VF updates, in reality 3fps is probably the highest realistic sustainable rate if you need to maintain framing. For higher, use bursts. 3fps is too slow for a dog running towards the camera. I didn't see any improvement in tracking at 3fps either, so there's no technical reason for 3 or 5 or higher, it's just about framing needs.

100% of "dog running towards camera" look like this. ISO 500, 1/800, f/4, AF-C dynamic at center splat on the dog's nose, 5fps. Results like this abound, where focus is on a rear paw or the tail, or even well behind the dog altogether.



The second problem that disqualifies it for action is I'd call the dog, it would start running towards me, I lift the camera - and the viewfinder is pitch black. From sleep mode it takes about 2 seconds to wake up, and by that time the dog is already past me, so I very quickly learned to "activate" the camera before I lift it up, by touching the shutter release (and getting about 50 random ground shots as it's a little too sensitive for this) before putting it up to my eye. The wake time is a little faster than the D800 in live view mode, so in other words ridiculously slow. This is unlike a DSLR which has VF image even if powered off, and then comes back on in a fraction of a second even if in power save. If you need to shoot opportunistically (like some PJ work) it's important to disable the viewfinder and camera power save/off modes. Just bring a pocket full off batteries; if you don't you're going to miss shots. By comparison the EVF lag is really a non-issue, it's absolutely fast enough to make no difference.

Anyway I hope someone finds this useful. Note that this is a pretty hard test that not many cameras, mirrorless or DSLR, will do well on.

Here's another example; as soon as the movement is a slower (less towards the camera) the success rate quickly climbs up to 100%. 200mm, ISO 560, 1/800s, f/4, AF-C dynamic roughly on the first dog's neck, so slightly left of center as I nudged the joystick to move it a little left for right-to-left chases, and a little to the right of center for left-to-right movement. For something like this, no problems. (Or more specifically, it's all about the photographer and light at that point.)

 
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