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Thread: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

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    Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Sorry to tell - the danish company Phase One is sold to a Danish Capital fund Axcel for 150 mio. US doller.
    My "national enthusiasm" has thereby decreased while Capital Funds are known for not paying tax (in contrary to our nearby all other national company's) to the welfare system in which they operate, and here Denmark.
    And known for pumping the finances up and thereafter selling again, often with big untaxed profits - and sometimes with an uncertain life in the future (because of "overdone" value).
    That is a shame, but is unfortunately taking place all over.
    A very bad choice of direction to chose such a buyer - for such an else good company.
    Thorkil

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US


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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Assuming the fund acts according to the law I ask myself "who is to blame"? The fund for using the legal options or the Danish legislator establishing a law that allows this?

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Assuming the fund acts according to the law I ask myself "who is to blame"? The fund for using the legal options or the Danish legislator establishing a law that allows this?
    Laws are mostly designed for "normal" businesses. There will always be loopholes, and some categories of businesses are designed to utilise those loopholes to the maximum. Equity funds have only one purpose: To maximise the profit for their investors. Designing laws to tax those funds would make life very complicated for ordinary businesses.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    As someone who has been in the M&A business it is rare for a seller to pick a buyer but almost always the case that an entity is on the block and it's a buyer who determines the final acquisition price. The purchase price, if true, shows just how small Phase is.

    Victor
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    I'll trade you two of your political problem children for one of ours
    Jack
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    without being an expert - there are work being done in EU to create a commen unity against hosting tax-fugitives. Luxenburg, Ireland, Holland and ranking high on the list as "problem-kids" so to speak in EU. I don't remember the excact word in our tax-laws in Denmark, but there is a general a bit floffy rule saying something like If kapital are moved to or there are made constructions which have no obvious purpose according to the normal work or behavior in the company, it is a deliberate action only made to avoid paying tax. So the leak of the Panama papers made many companys and privatpersons involuntarely gettinng out in the spotlight to be investigated by the tax-outhorities, and some of them has been taking action against by now.
    But we have problem getting people who are doing fraud against the state Denmark delivered by authorities in England where he/they live.
    I'm not claiming that all of the capital fund are doing unlegal actions, but its a huge grayzone, which the politicians unforthunatly carefully are avoiding doing something about, even though its giving unfair compition the countrys between, which is against the intention and rules in generel in EU itself - and where a lot of the capital funds are looking the slip through all the small holes they can find.
    In general its a problem for welfarestates with high standards, if the companys avoid paying tax and the citicens are moving lets say to Spain also to avoid pay tax, lets say in Denmark (and they are even though allowed to stay in Denmark half of the year without paying tax). If we all did so, who would then be back to finance the welfaresystem?
    So yes its unforthunatly a commen action to see in the capital market, floding towards country with the biggest holes and where the mainoffice in a company can stay unnoticed in an empty rusty mailbox somewhere in a foreign country. But this are actions where the welfarestates and thereby the commen citicens are the loosers.
    But here I was just naiv giving Phase One high credits previously, but now it seeems they just act as all the other bad boys...
    Just therefore I was a bit dissapointed by reading the news.
    Well its about being a bit offtopic now I know...
    best Thorkil
    PS. but I have to still use C1 in the future...

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ...
    Equity funds have only one purpose: To maximise the profit for their investors.
    ....
    On our side of the pond, ALL companies with multiple investors have that single purpose. Indeed, they can be, and regularly are, sued for failing to adhere to that principle. It sounds better when it's called "fiduciary duty". It was originally intended to protect investors against, e.g., the majority stockholder CEO selling the entire company to himself for $1.

    When things like quality, reputation, and customer service align with profit, we are happy with the results. But make no mistake - profit wins. This is barely a controversial point of view. The vast majority of Americans, left and right, accept it as an axiom.

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:17.
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Designing laws to tax those funds would make life very complicated for ordinary businesses.
    I don't think so, closing these so-called loopholes can be done in a way that they only effect those that use the loopholes. It just needs to get higher on the political radar. For a short time (during the Panama papers disclosure) it was but I think it slipped below the radar again. It's noty a sexy subject and doesn't get you many votes, so it will take a long time to change (if it will at all)
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    So bottom line what does this mean to Phase owners and the entire Phase line such as C1?
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    The other day in the paper one company owner among the teen riches in Denmark declared that he was very very happy to pay the company-tax here (22%), and encouraged other copmpany-owners to be so, because, for that amount it provide him skilled and well educated workers, it provides free children care, free schools of good standard, free higher education, free healthcare, free hospitals, a well coordinated society, without exceptionel powerty, relativ low criminal rate ands so on. Other company-owners has declared same way, by the way nr. 4 on the "rich-list"..
    so its often just a matter of decent relation of ones role in the society, and what the society provide for you, and not a matter of how much can I cheat without being noticed...or at least it ought to be so in general - decent behavior and humble recognition of what the society with "high" tax pay back for you, and what you owe to it - and it can't be underestimated.
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    So bottom line what does this mean to Phase owners and the entire Phase line such as C1?
    hopefully nothing, both in the short run, and in the future. But I fear the future, because perhaps, even though I don't know the company inside, there could be a risk for the "united-spirit" to leave,
    and that could be followed by a decrease, and that the most importent people could be in risk leaving. But it depends on how the mood will go on, but with the new owners I fear...
    but of course one must give it a chance, the possibility tgo be possitive surprised, but...time itself are the hard judge

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    hopefully nothing, both in the short run, and in the future. But I fear the future, because perhaps, even though I don't know the company inside, there could be a risk for the "united-spirit" to leave,
    and that could be followed by a decrease, and that the most importent people could be in risk leaving. But it depends on how the mood will go on, but with the new owners I fear...
    but of course one must give it a chance, the possibility tgo be possitive surprised, but...time itself are the hard judge
    Sounds like business as usual over here.
    Best regards,
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Since the majority on this forum come here for discussions about Gear and sometimes photography ..in that order...most of us do not concern ourselves with the fairness of VC firms in Denmark . Suggest we drop the political discussion for which almost all of us know very little and care even less.

    The question is what does this imply for Phase One ?

    The past five years have been very good to P1 and their VC ..plenty of growth and even some profits . It appears that the VC picked a reasonable time to exit .

    The next five years look much more difficult ..Fuji has come through as a major competitor with exceptional products and a massive market price advantage . The MF market appears to have limited potential for improvement in IQ without a break thru approach . The physical size of the pixel is limiting the upside in MPs if you want a balanced performance . So why upgrade .

    Looking at P1 today the value is in the software ..Capture One is on a roll and could be expanded into the defecto standard for best image quality (if its not already there). I would expect that the new VC firm is looking at the break up value of P1 .

    Continuing to run P1 as it has been for the last five years looks to be a strategy of no return .

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Just read these new thread and ...

    if this is real true then I could not be happier to have mainly stayed with Adobe solutions over the past 2 years already. While C1 Pro was my first RAW developer some 16 years ago and I still kept updating till today I find myself constantly using LR Classic and LR CC today as it makes my workflow so much easier. And with some knowledge and some work I achieve similar or even better results compared to C1Pro.

    Ok I know that C1Pro is only one part of the story as Phase One also sells their cameras and backs. I have been a fan of these for years and maybe technically they are still the top of the line one can get today, but the release of the Fuji GFX100 marks a real change in the world of digital medium format camera systems. I am no pro user anymore and doubt if I would go back into MFD anytime in my life but if I would I definitely would go with Fuji GFX. They simply rock digital MFD today and I guess also in the future.

    Why I mention all this? For me it is obvious that finally the successful release of the GFX100 at least started some very hard times for Phase One. This may be one of the reasons why all these transformations start happening right now.

    Well don't cry - IMO we have more options today and in the future than in the past and also IMO these options are much more delightful

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Why is a Phase One thread on the Nikon forum?
    Best regards,
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    Why is a Phase One thread on the Nikon forum?
    That is solely my fault Dave
    But the reason is that I'm only "connected with" Phase One trough the C1 software, so in that light it could as well be anywhere.
    But as I'm not posting in the Medium Format Forum I thought it would be more familiar for me posting here..
    But the right place then could have been "Image processing" where I also don't post...
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Suggest we drop the political discussion for which almost all of us know very little and care even less.
    That's funny, the person who started this thread thought very different about that.

    It might be a good idea to drop the political discussion, but not because "almost all of us know very little and care even less". Assuming what others know and think is not a good strategy for a valuable discussion here imho.
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    That is solely my fault Dave
    But the reason is that I'm only "connected with" Phase One trough the C1 software, so in that light it could as well be anywhere.
    But as I'm not posting in the Medium Format Forum I thought it would be more familiar for me posting here..
    But the right place then could have been "Image processing" where I also don't post...
    No worries from me. It is just disorienting when I click on the Nikon Forum and see Phase One, as a business, being discussed. Phase One is of course, MFD and it just seems an odd thread for the Nikon forum.

    As an aside, I was looking at your splendid "Deer in the Forest" images today. Again!

    Whatever it took you to get those images, I only wish I could borrow the fortune that you used so well to capture them. Still loving them and I still have no idea which software you used, but keep doing what you are doing and share with us!!!
    Best regards,
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    So not owning any P1 gear I have a question does P1 owe promised firmware updates to new cameras that have been sold to users based on these promises...if so then it makes sense that the sale of the company has been in the works for sometime.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    hopefully nothing, both in the short run, and in the future. But I fear the future, because perhaps, even though I don't know the company inside, there could be a risk for the "united-spirit" to leave,
    and that could be followed by a decrease, and that the most importent people could be in risk leaving. But it depends on how the mood will go on, but with the new owners I fear...
    but of course one must give it a chance, the possibility tgo be possitive surprised, but...time itself are the hard judge
    There will always be changes, regardless of who the owners are. When it comes to equity funds, they will look to optimising the company for their own purposes, which will mostly be increased profits and imcreased value for future sale of the company. Equity investors are rarely in it for the long term.

    My guess is that they'll consentrate increasingly on the software part, since that is where the growth has been strongest lately and because that means not having to compete directly with clever Asians, at least for now. How that will affect P1's customers, only the future will show. I'm sure the money guys have a plan.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    No worries from me. It is just disorienting when I click on the Nikon Forum and see Phase One, as a business, being discussed. Phase One is of course, MFD and it just seems an odd thread for the Nikon forum.

    As an aside, I was looking at your splendid "Deer in the Forest" images today. Again!

    Whatever it took you to get those images, I only wish I could borrow the fortune that you used so well to capture them. Still loving them and I still have no idea which software you used, but keep doing what you are doing and share with us!!!

    Thank you! I'm educated as a cityplanner as yourself, and beside that in the sparetime, I educated me as a building archtect concerning old houses mostly from around 1850 to 1950 - so no pro - and the only thing my brain could find out was Capture One from Phase One, not because it is danish, but because for my part its the only one that was so intuitiv that it was the most easy for me to deal with.
    North of Copenhagen there is this little jewel, the deerpark
    https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/cope...park-gdk414367
    https://naturstyrelsen.dk/media/2429...k_2018_web.pdf
    established around 1670 so that the king could go hunting nearby Copenhagen (but these times are thankfully long gone)
    and in the northern part of the area there are only few people and the most untouched nature, there you can find peace and in the fall also the big male deer who is fighting and some bathing in the mud.
    There are around 2.000 deers of different sorts. And they shot around 600 every year to keep it down on a sustainable level (I called them to ask, if there were days when they didn't shot, while one day I was very close to the shot - but they are skilled hunters, and employed by the state, hit spot on every time (so you hear only one shot) and there has been no accident with visitors, so absolutely no need to be afraid)
    Some of the lucky deershot was just: 50% sheer luck, 20% the FX 70-200/4, 20% the Z7 which is just so easy to deal with, and the rest 10% was just being ready. And just adjusted through Capture One Pro 12.
    best Thorkil
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Wow!!! A deerpark!!!! Thank you for that lovely background, I had no idea such a place existed and the history... very interesting and very cool.

    Don't forget, the photographer's skill (yours) is not to be discounted, it is self-evident.

    Ah, the mere thought of visiting Copenhagen is a wonderful to carry with me throughout the rest of the week., thank you for the motif of my daydreams.

    There may be a time when I finally get around to C1, I really don't know as my plate is full and I have little time or energy left on the best of days. Of course, no one knows the future, so who can say that I will not cave in and find myself a C1 convert in the near future? Never say never...

    Btw, looking forward to more of your work with the Z7!
    Best regards,
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Thank you! I'm educated as a cityplanner as yourself, and beside that in the sparetime, I educated me as a building archtect concerning old houses mostly from around 1850 to 1950 - so no pro - and the only thing my brain could find out was Capture One from Phase One, not because it is danish, but because for my part its the only one that was so intuitiv that it was the most easy for me to deal with.
    North of Copenhagen there is this little jewel, the deerpark
    https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/cope...park-gdk414367
    https://naturstyrelsen.dk/media/2429...k_2018_web.pdf
    established around 1670 so that the king could go hunting nearby Copenhagen (but these times are thankfully long gone)
    and in the northern part of the area there are only few people and the most untouched nature, there you can find peace and in the fall also the big male deer who is fighting and some bathing in the mud.
    There are around 2.000 deers of different sorts. And they shot around 600 every year to keep it down on a sustainable level (I called them to ask, if there were days when they didn't shot, while one day I was very close to the shot - but they are skilled hunters, and employed by the state, hit spot on every time (so you hear only one shot) and there has been no accident with visitors, so absolutely no need to be afraid)
    Some of the lucky deershot was just: 50% sheer luck, 20% the FX 70-200/4, 20% the Z7 which is just so easy to deal with, and the rest 10% was just being ready. And just adjusted through Capture One Pro 12.
    best Thorkil
    Now you made me want to go to Copenhagen. I used to stay in Tårbæk during holidays when I was a kid, and later I've had many unforgettable lunches at Strandmøllekro, my favourite "kro" in Denmark. Time for a trip to Denmark I think...

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Well, all ethics aside for a moment, it looks like Silverfleet made almost 5x what they paid for P1, so I guess it made sense from their end.

    The one thing I did notice in the press release was Silverfleet pushing how they had taken P1 from '... a hardware to [a] software-centric business ...' - maybe that hints at the future direction in which P1's headed ?

    Jim
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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Now you made me want to go to Copenhagen. I used to stay in Tårbæk during holidays when I was a kid, and later I've had many unforgettable lunches at Strandmøllekro, my favourite "kro" in Denmark. Time for a trip to Denmark I think...
    Yes I do remember your Tårbæk and Mogens and Mette Holm
    On behalf of the danes, you shall be very welcome Jørgen.
    Perhaps we can meet
    best thorkil
    PS. Strandmøllekroen is not what it used to be.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Yes I do remember your Tårbæk and Mogens and Mette Holm
    On behalf of the danes, you shall be very welcome Jørgen.
    Perhaps we can meet
    best thorkil
    PS. Strandmøllekroen is not what it used to be.
    I'll have a long look at my calendar. Would be nice to meet.

    Sorry to hear about Strandmøllekro. Their sildeplatte was sensational, a complete meal, with lots of beer and aquavit needed to help digesting the stuff.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Well, all ethics aside for a moment, it looks like Silverfleet made almost 5x what they paid for P1, so I guess it made sense from their end.

    The one thing I did notice in the press release was Silverfleet pushing how they had taken P1 from '... a hardware to [a] software-centric business ...' - maybe that hints at the future direction in which P1's headed ?

    Jim
    Exactly

    With the latest releases from Fuji and Hasselblad, they are in for a tough battle in any case. This will be interesting to follow.

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'll have a long look at my calendar. Would be nice to meet.

    Sorry to hear about Strandmøllekro. Their sildeplatte was sensational, a complete meal, with lots of beer and aquavit needed to help digesting the stuff.

    Yes it would
    In july I'm in Italy.
    I think Strandmøllekroen is more or less for arranged private party's now.
    The old time where people just dropped by, with life and activ mood seems to be gone.
    Sort of the same matter as we discussed about stores. We stay home too much in the socalled develloped countrys.
    When one look at the photos from Vivian Maier, or your photos in your region, thats a totally different scene, full of life in the streets and everywhere.
    Perhaps because of small apartments previously or minor interesting or "poor homes" that forced people to take part in the public life?.
    So perhaps "developed" sometimes is becoming a rather undeveloped stage?

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    maybe that hints at the future direction in which P1's headed ?
    Hopefully the direction of broad camera and lens support, responding to customer inquiries, and workflows and metadata management to suit more than a single-minded studio scenario!

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    Re: Sorry - Phase One sold to a Capital fund for 150 mio. US

    150 sounds low. Is this an investment or a buyout by a PE?

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