The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
It's time for me to consider the move. So who's compared both? Obviously the 7 has a more resolution, but how do they each perform relative to the other as far as color, noise and general IQ rendering? Looking at images, it appears both are highly capable (very highly). Yet they have distinct enough capabilities that perhaps a good case could be made for having one of each?

Next, which lenses? I like primes, but both the 14-30 and (both) 24-70's look like they can deliver pretty impressive results. Are the the 24, 35, 50 or 85 prime so good you consider them mandatory?

Thanks in advance, and images welcome!!!
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ?

Jack, sorry I made the move. I had an easier time getting what I wanted with the D810 than the Z7. An OVF still beats the EVF in the Z7. The zoom in feature for manual focusing is too fuzzy to be of critical help and the focus by wire for native lens is so sensitive it must be on a tripod.
How do I know this? I tried a Leica M adapter for the 90 Elmarit-M and then put the lens on a Leica. Not even close. I feel the same way about the FTZ adapter and F lenses, what a crap shoot. There could be some sample variation as my rental Z7 was perfect with my 70-200 f4 - then when I purchased the Z7 I really struggle to get a good image with it now. I believe some of it is that the Z body does not balance well with long lenses hand-held. I cannot see that the IBIS is of any help.
So I returned the adapter and ordered the 85 1.8S. The AF is adequate with the native lenses, but I have still had problems, problems I didn’t have with the D810.
I’m frustrated and have relegated the Z7 to landscape only. Luckily I still have several Leica’s...
I wanted to go on a diet camera wise and did but losing the 810 was a (too late realized) pita.
I know many are over the moon about the new cameras but I feel it was rushed into production due to market pressure.
Good luck with your decision.

PS. The Nikon 50 1.8S was better than my Otus 55 w/FTZ.
So there is good news with the lenses!
 
Last edited:

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
What John said.
I haven't used the Z-cameras yet, but have used mirrorless cameras of many brands for 10 years. Still, I keep coming back to the optical viewfinder for "user satisfaction". Since you're asking about the Z6, I would recommend having a look at the D780 first, a camera that is supposed to be launched early January:

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/12/26/...lens-rumored-to-be-announced-in-january.aspx/

The rule-of-thumb for me has become: Things that move, OVF, stationary objects, EVF. No matter how good the EVF is, I always get a feeling of delay when I move the camera fast. Then there's shutter release response. Nothing compares to good, old click-clack technology there.

I still regret selling my D810. I bought a D800 a few months ago for a very good price, and if my travel activity calms down a bit, I will use it more. It's the camera I use for industrial photography now. Later, I will look for a low mileage D810 or D850... or even the D780 if they have changed the viewfinder eyepiece to the round version.

For travel, I mostly use m43 (Panasonic). It's unbeatable for weight and size.
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
Thanks for the honest replies, John and Jørgen.
It's a boon to old OVF/SLR users ...... and provides us with a good reason to to rush into an upgrade.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
I am a MILC owner who prefers a great OVF (e.g., in H6D) to an EVF. I feel more involved with an OVF.

Nonetheless, I also see clear advantages of EVFs. Depending on your eyesight, an EVF can bring relief. When light is low (low ambient light, slow lens, attached ND filter), EVF can provide a bright and informative view. An EVF has a higher resolution than an LCD typically, making it a better screen to check the focus. And last, but not least, when shooting, you can quickly review your image without taking your eye off the viewfinder.

Some day EVF-s may advance to have adequate contrast and dynamic range, but at the moment, I have to live with a compromise if I want to use a camera with EVF.

Answering Jack's question: get a Z 7. The Z lenses are great.

Higher resolution means you can crop with less penalty to the image, and you can do particular transformations with less damage to the picture. Sean Reid noticed that Leica Q2's SDC causes less damage to the image than SDC on Leica Q, most likely because of the higher resolution of Q2.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Wow, thanks guys -- interesting comments. I spent a little time with the Sony A7r a few years back, and never gelled with it. I was hoping the Z7 would be different, but it sounds like maybe not...

Maybe the better answer for me is to jump into the Fuji GFX system. My needs are pretty simple, 50MP is more than ample, I prefer the 3:4 aspect ratio over 2:3, and of late have been shooting a lot more square. The 32-64 Fuji zoom would cover 90% of what I want to shoot with it as of course would a 24-70 on the Z7. Looking at some reviews, it appears the Fuji is superior especially in the higher ISO noise-detail department, also something I use frequently as I shoot in dim light. The GFX 50R is not a huge stretch dollar-wise over the Z7. Hmmm...
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I use both the D850 and Z7.

The D850 I reserve mainly for birds, and trains. I have yet to find a EVF that can keep up with the fast movement of birds, but the Z7 comes close.

Z lenses, 14 30, I hate to say it, but it's vastly superior to the old F 2.8 14-24 which was my mainstay for years on Nikon. The 14-30 has much less distortion towards the edges, and very little if any of the terrible Magenta flare issues the 14-24 has in the opposite corner from a bright light. The 14-30 also has less aberrations than the 14-24. Sharpness I give the edge to the 14-30.

24-70 F 2.8, amazing optic, superior to my 24-70 F 2.8 VR II especially on the long end from 50mm to 70mm.

I regularly use the 80-400 with the Z7, it's a bit out of balance with the lens, but still has good results. Nikon is a bit vague on how the older VR lenses work in conjunction with IBIS, as if you turn of VR on the lens, you also turn off IBIS, not sure why that is.

My kit for Nikon is pretty limited now as all I carry in the field is the 24-70Z, 14-30Z and 80-400, which covers the focal ranges I need.

Noise, I was never happy with the D850 and noise even at lowest ISO, just not as clean as the Stellar D810, but for the extra resolution I will tolerate the noise. Z7 does seem a bit cleaner, especially in the ISO 400 to 2000 range.

Why Nikon only allows I card slot to me is strange, as they should have allowed a 2nd card on the Z7.

I find the manual focus on the Z7 with peaking excellent, prefer it over the D850's Live View 100% view on the LCD. Peaking, IMO gives an excellent feedback to obtaining a good focus. Here having an EVF is a real plus as in most outdoor light, it's hard to really dial in focus on the cameras LCD due to reflections and other brightness issues, being able to see all of this in the blackout EVF is plus.

Color, I can't tell any difference in a D850 and Z7 image, in C1, which is all I use now.

Continuous mode in H speed is impressive on the Z7, with the XQD cards. I got so used to the Z7 on continuous mode that I screwed up on my first day shooting the Union Pacific Big Boy with the D850, as I mistakenly had the camera set to write to the SD card, and that buffers out much faster.

Weight, given, it's smaller and lighter. I don't use the battery grip on my D850. The Z7 with the 45mm Nikon Pancake F 2.8 lens is a very light package even with the FTZ adapter on there.

The IBIS on the Z7 for me is a better solution than D850 VR, I just get better results.

I just wish Phase One would allow a sharpness falloff adjustment for the Z7 images (I realize it's a mirrorless exif and C1 reads that, but I prefer the slider). C1 is also behind on lens support for the Z7, at least last time I checked. They are also sadly unaware that the 80-400 needs support. I have given up sending them emails asking for that lens to be added. The 80-400 can be an excellent optic.

Paul C
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Wow, thanks guys -- interesting comments. I spent a little time with the Sony A7r a few years back, and never gelled with it. I was hoping the Z7 would be different, but it sounds like maybe not...

Maybe the better answer for me is to jump into the Fuji GFX system. My needs are pretty simple, 50MP is more than ample, I prefer the 3:4 aspect ratio over 2:3, and of late have been shooting a lot more square. The 32-64 Fuji zoom would cover 90% of what I want to shoot with it as of course would a 24-70 on the Z7. Looking at some reviews, it appears the Fuji is superior especially in the higher ISO noise-detail department, also something I use frequently as I shoot in dim light. The GFX 50R is not a huge stretch dollar-wise over the Z7. Hmmm...
I had a GFX 50S and never really liked it. Slow to operate, cumbersome ergonomics, but great lenses.
Since you care about high ISO behavior, I assume that you shoot handheld a lot. Note that GFX 50R does not have IBIS, nor has 32-64 optical image stabilization. IMO, the only possible advantage of GFX 50R is the size of the sensor (MF vs FF). The other GFX advantage, tiltable EVF, is not available with GFX50R.

Other mirrorless systems worthy a look but unfortunately pricy: Panasonic S1R, Leica SL2, Hasselblad X1D.

I think Z 7 reaches the optimum when accounting for ergonomics, price, features, versatility, and image quality.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
For sure take a 50R or S on a test drive. Optics on all the lenses are excellent.

Personally I never had any issues with the 50S.

Paul C
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Wow, thanks guys -- interesting comments. I spent a little time with the Sony A7r a few years back, and never gelled with it. I was hoping the Z7 would be different, but it sounds like maybe not...

Maybe the better answer for me is to jump into the Fuji GFX system. My needs are pretty simple, 50MP is more than ample, I prefer the 3:4 aspect ratio over 2:3, and of late have been shooting a lot more square. The 32-64 Fuji zoom would cover 90% of what I want to shoot with it as of course would a 24-70 on the Z7. Looking at some reviews, it appears the Fuji is superior especially in the higher ISO noise-detail department, also something I use frequently as I shoot in dim light. The GFX 50R is not a huge stretch dollar-wise over the Z7. Hmmm...
The A7R IV is a fine camera in many ways, but at my age, I can't be bothered to adapt to the Sony ergonomics which I consider lacklustre in any case. The Z6/7 are Nikons with Nikon ergonomics. What you have to figure out is if an EVF is for you or not. I don't doubt for a second that the Z-mount lenses are better than most F-mount lenses. That, and some weight savings, might at the end of the day be more important than the endless mirrorless vs DSLR discussion.

Fuji is fine, image quality is fantastic, but even the R is rather big. Ergonomics are charming but rather quirky (unless you miss the Nikon F4), and there's no stabilisation.

Have you considered the Nikon D810? :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Wow, thanks guys -- interesting comments. I spent a little time with the Sony A7r a few years back, and never gelled with it. I was hoping the Z7 would be different, but it sounds like maybe not...

Maybe the better answer for me is to jump into the Fuji GFX system. My needs are pretty simple, 50MP is more than ample, I prefer the 3:4 aspect ratio over 2:3, and of late have been shooting a lot more square. The 32-64 Fuji zoom would cover 90% of what I want to shoot with it as of course would a 24-70 on the Z7. Looking at some reviews, it appears the Fuji is superior especially in the higher ISO noise-detail department, also something I use frequently as I shoot in dim light. The GFX 50R is not a huge stretch dollar-wise over the Z7. Hmmm...
Bonus with Fuji is C1 supports them - teh only reason I switched from 50S to 100 was the EVF ( fantastic) and IBIS - which is unbelievable. The IQ from any of these is fantastic all the glass is - fantastic.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Have you considered the Nikon D810? :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
Touche :) I love it's images, but am tired of it's bulk. I'm even tired of the faster lenses bulk's.

Thank you all for your replies, they have me more confused than when I started :LOL: I need to demo both, then decide...
 

Jan Brittenson

Senior Subscriber Member
If you're tired of the bulk of the D810, then you're not going to like either of the Fuji 50's - they're bulkier.

The Z7 is great in pretty much every way, and the EVF while not an OVF is a tolerable compromise for such a small camera IMO. As usual, the best camera is the one you actually have with you! It's not just the image quality of the EVF (which is actually quite good), but you're looking at an interpretation rather than the real world, so it adds a layer to visualization (since that's an interpretation); it also goes through batteries significantly faster (not a big deal, just spring a spare), uses ridiculously overpriced XQD cards (which are great for action, but this is not an action camera), and is slow to turn on. Remember with an EVF you can't see through it until it's powered on, and the Z7 takes 1-2 seconds to wake from sleep. If you quickly lift it to your eye for an opportunistic shot you're unlikely to get it, in the time it takes the camera to come on whatever you were going to shoot is gone. So it's not a Leica alternative. But even with those drawbacks the bulk reduction and form factor is a huge win IMO. And the S glass is universally excellent; while it can be argued one lens is better than another, like the 50 is better than the 35, the reality is if you want a 35 buy the 35, by any objective standard it's superb.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I'm still shooting the D850 and have no plans to go mirrorless. Coming from medium format it's quite small and light
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Touche :) I love it's images, but am tired of it's bulk. I'm even tired of the faster lenses bulk's.
While the Z bodies are certainly less bulky and a couple of hundred grams lighter than a D750 (if the Z6 would be sufficient, the D750 would, and the upcoming D780), extra batteries take a bit off that argument. The prime lenses in Z-mount however are all heavier if you compare f/1.8 to f/1.8. I don't doubt that some or all of them are sharper though.

In your situation, I would pick up a used Z6 or 7 with one lens and see where that brings you.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
If you're tired of the bulk of the D810, then you're not going to like either of the Fuji 50's - they're bulkier.

The Z7 is great in pretty much every way, and the EVF while not an OVF is a tolerable compromise for such a small camera IMO. As usual, the best camera is the one you actually have with you! It's not just the image quality of the EVF (which is actually quite good), but you're looking at an interpretation rather than the real world, so it adds a layer to visualization (since that's an interpretation); it also goes through batteries significantly faster (not a big deal, just spring a spare), uses ridiculously overpriced XQD cards (which are great for action, but this is not an action camera), and is slow to turn on. Remember with an EVF you can't see through it until it's powered on, and the Z7 takes 1-2 seconds to wake from sleep. If you quickly lift it to your eye for an opportunistic shot you're unlikely to get it, in the time it takes the camera to come on whatever you were going to shoot is gone. So it's not a Leica alternative. But even with those drawbacks the bulk reduction and form factor is a huge win IMO. And the S glass is universally excellent; while it can be argued one lens is better than another, like the 50 is better than the 35, the reality is if you want a 35 buy the 35, by any objective standard it's superb.
This says it all. Very balanced and a great contribution :thumbs:

The part about the viewfinder not being always on is of great importance for me, and one of the reasons why I use Panasonic mirrorless, since it allows me to keep the EVF on at all times excepts when the camera goes to sleep. Many mirrorless cameras (I haven't tested Nikon for this) switches the viewfinder off as soon as you take the camera from your eye, and there's a delay before it switches on again. It's just a fraction of a second, but with the way I often take photos (environmental portraits and street photography in particular, sports of course), that interrupts my contact with the subject long enough for my brain to kind of "restart" the composition process. It's done to save battery life of course, but this is one of the great features of DSLR cameras: you don't have to worry about battery life. Well, almost... with my OM-1, I changed battery less than ten times in 30 years :ROTFL:
 

Darin Marcus

Well-known member
Hello Jack,

I am not sure how useful my opinion will be to you since:
- I've never tried a Z7, nor any of the S primes, and also none of the other FF mirrorless cameras (from other manufacturers)
- I am not a pro, so the way I use my cameras most likely does not match your (and the others') ways

I did not upgrade from the D810 to the D850 because I do not need the extra resolution, nor the extra requirements on glass and shooting technique that the increased resolution brings with it.
I decided to keep the D810 (and the Df too), so I went with a Z6 to complement it. The Z6 has less resolution (but a weak-ish AA filter), a little faster AF-C (especially in low light), and better video (though I have not yet got to it...) than the Z7.

In my opinion, Nikon's play with the Z system is not as much about the cameras (though they try to release competitive products) as it is about the new mount and the S lenses for it.
We are still in the early days of the Z mount, but I can already tell the the 24-70mm f/2.8 S is worth it. Can't wait to try the 70-200mm f/2.8 S (January 2020 based on the latest rumors).

People may like it or not where Nikon is going with the Z mount lenses, but I think there is no turning back. I believe that during the latest 'group retirement' wave, many of the old style lens designers left Nikon. I do not think that the classic lens 'character' will show up in their lenses going forward. The more recent F mount lenses show some of these changes (for example the 105mm f/1.4), and the best S lenses take this further based on the characteristics of the Z mount. It appears that Nikon tries to balance resolution/sharpness with something I call 'realism' for the lack of a better word (others call it 'clinical' - I do not agree with this when it comes to the 24-70mm f/2.8 S). I love the rendering of the 24-70mm f/2.8 S. The S primes may be larger/heavier than their F relatives, but are all better and all stabilized on the Z6/7.

So my plan was to sample de Z system while still having the D810 for more resolution, 3D tracking and faster action.
However, after a year of using the Z6 and a month with the Z50 I find my D810 and Df gathering dust on the shelf. I will soon force myself to take them out for a photowalk just so they don't feel neglected...
But all this happens as I don't shoot fast action, nor do street/candid photography. I also don't look for too long through the EVF at any given time (I take a few photos, walk a little, take another few) so there is no significant strain on my eyes.

So my suggestion would be to keep the D850 for a little while more, and to get a Z6 with the 24-70mm f/2.8 S (if possible), or the f/4 if you want less weight, and see how that works. Then, if you like it, you can replace the D850 with a Z7 mII down the road...
Even if the Zs feel like Nikon cameras, there are some differences in usability due to their mirrorless nature. It is now second nature to me to gently touch the shutter button or the AF-ON button as I raise the Z6 to my eye - when I get to look through the EVF, it is already on and ready to shoot :)
 

Darin Marcus

Well-known member
Oh, and a photo for the road...



Nikon Z6, Nikkor Z 24-70mm f/2.8 S @ 37mm, 1/80, f/4, ISO 400

Processed in Capture NX-D / ViewNX-i
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for the added replies guys, all good input.

Darian, love your images, and thank you for posting one in this thread :) To be clear, I never upgraded to the D850, as the size/weight of the D810 and lenses was nagging me already. The Z6 would likely serve me fine right now too, but as I said above I'm shooting a lot more square now, so that trims either Z cam resolution down to 2/3rds, so 24MP of the Z6 drops to 16, and that's starting to get a little thin by today's sensor standards. I also appreciate the fact the Z7 has no AA --- I *loved* that about the D810 and how it rendered so naturally.

Gonna take a look at a Fuji GFX body and lens before I finalize, but suspect as per Jan's comments it will be bigger than I want.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Thanks for the added replies guys, all good input.

Darian, love your images, and thank you for posting one in this thread :) To be clear, I never upgraded to the D850, as the size/weight of the D810 and lenses was nagging me already. The Z6 would likely serve me fine right now too, but as I said above I'm shooting a lot more square now, so that trims either Z cam resolution down to 2/3rds, so 24MP of the Z6 drops to 16, and that's starting to get a little thin by today's sensor standards. I also appreciate the fact the Z7 has no AA --- I *loved* that about the D810 and how it rendered so naturally.

Gonna take a look at a Fuji GFX body and lens before I finalize, but suspect as per Jan's comments it will be bigger than I want.
Jack, come back here to ask about Z 7 tips if you decide to go that route. Remember to turn on EFCS when testing/using mirrorless cameras.

- Srdjan
 
Top