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Thread: D780 - living in the past?

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    D780 - living in the past?

    It will apparently be launched the coming week, but here are a couple of photos. This seems to be a rather conservative upgrade, along the lines of "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". I suppose there's a new sensor (but still 24MP) and new processing. Build quality also seems to be improved. Worth noticing is that there's no joystick, no flash and no vertical grip. Unfortunately, no circular eyepiece. Rumours are that it's also lighter than the 5 year old D750. This looks almost barebones in 2020. Hopefully, that also means they are aiming for $1,800 at launch.

    Since I'm clearly living in the past, I'm interested, and have put the D800 up for sale. I'll wait for at least six months though, just in case there are problems at the start. Looks like a nice supplement to my F80





    https://nikonrumors.com/2020/01/04/h...x/#more-141734

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Interesting...

    So, what's wrong with the D800 and how will this be better?...Did you not 'bond' with the D800?......Are it's files too large?......Too heavy?...??

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    Interesting...

    So, what's wrong with the D800 and how will this be better?...Did you not 'bond' with the D800?......Are it's files too large?......Too heavy?...??
    - Weight obviously. The difference between the D800 and the D780 will probably be around 250g.
    - Size, and this is a problem I had when I had the D810 too. Too big for my hand and too big for my most used travel camera bags.
    - Video. Earlier, I thought I would only use mirrorless for video. That has changed, and I will use DSLR cameras for video too, but the D800 is not a good video camera.
    - No flip screen. I use that a lot, for low angle shots, when I need to be descreet etc.

    The D800 is great for what I bought it for, mostly industrial stills, but I think I will be happier with a more versatile camera. The D850 is also an alternative. It has a shallower body and a more distinct grip than the D800/810, although it's still large and heavy.

    I also did the mistake on going for zoom lenses. I realise now that I prefer primes for DSLR cameras. If I can afford it, I'm aiming for a 20/35/58/105mm combo.

    It all depends a bit on the viewfinder of the D780, particularly the diopter adjustment. I don't like to shoot with glasses and I use +2.5. That's more than most recent Nikon viewfinders can be adjusted to, but with the circular eyepiece of the pro cameras, a +2 or +3 diopter lens can be attached instead of the standard lens, while on the rectangular viewfinders, that's an add-on that limits viewfinder functionality. Interestingly, older Nikon bodies, even my F80 and my D300, and all my Panasonic cameras, can be adjusted to at least +3.

    Why DSLR then?
    After shooting mirrorless for nearly 10 years, mostly in combination with DSLR bodies, I have noticed that my eyes get "tired" faster when shooting using an EVF. It's a similar feeling to what I get if I work too long with the computer in the evening, although not exactly. Then there's this feeling of added "distance" to the subject. It's there, particularly when the camera is moved or zoomed fast. Then there's battery life (and most battery saving features on mirrorless cameras affect shooting in some way or another).

    Oh... and I actually like the sound of DSLR cameras.

    I will still use both technologies though, and to keep the door open for two technologies using the same lenses and batteries, Nikon and Canon are the only games in town. Both even give me the option of using film too with the same lenses, although not with Z-mount lenses.

    There's been a trend lately to dump DSLR completely when going with mirrorless. "Last year I loved DSLR cameras, but that's soooo 2019, so this year I hate them!". The world is becoming increasingly black and white.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
    Try comparing to other cameras with the same sensor size and you'll see the D850 is usually bigger and heavier. No doubt it's a stellar camera but small and light are not one of its attributes when compared to similar peers.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    There's been a trend lately to dump DSLR completely when going with mirrorless. "Last year I loved DSLR cameras, but that's soooo 2019, so this year I hate them!". The world is becoming increasingly black and white.
    +1

    Mirrorless is great for what it does, but I think so are DSLR's. I still have and use these "dinosaurs" and if you don't mind cameras that are a bit older there are more games in town than just Canon and Nikon that can share lenses across mirrorless (APS-C and FF), DSLR's (APS-C and FF) and film SLR's, obviously with the use of the right adapter.
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
    I will use a Fuji GX680 for an assignment in a couple of weeks. It's around 4 kg plus 1.25 kg for the 50mm f/5.6 wide angle lens

    When it comes to the D850, size is more of a consideration than weight. The grip design makes it a much handier camera than the D800 though, at least for my moderate size hands.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I will use a Fuji GX680 for an assignment in a couple of weeks. It's around 4 kg plus 1.25 kg for the 50mm f/5.6 wide angle lens

    When it comes to the D850, size is more of a consideration than weight. The grip design makes it a much handier camera than the D800 though, at least for my moderate size hands.
    Living in the past? What's wrong with that?
    Think about it for a minute!!!!'

    Seriously...

    I prefer the 1965 Mustang GT my wife sold when we married in 1971 in order to buy a modern, responsible Toyota Corolla. Damn! What a mistake as were the succession of Toyotas and various American cars that seemed to fit our life along the way. They are all in the recycled process in whatever form their fate dictated.

    Enlightenment was one blessing in our lives as we became empty nesters. We still drive two old Mercedes vehicles, total age is 46 years for both. Total mileage well over 500,000 miles. And they are in pristine condition for daily drivers. And far more economical than any other choices.

    How about other "past" things in our lives. Honor, dignity, truth, love, peace, happiness, health?

    The point is, the present is all we have, not the future. The present allows us to learn from and enjoy the good things of our past as well as avoid the bad things wherever possible thereby making the possibility for a better future.

    I enjoyed the Hasselblad 503cxi and I still love using the current MF and old Nikons I have now. So, I disagree that you are "living in the past ... you are simply living in the present with the treasures of the past whether they be physically from the past or embodied in present day products.

    Pretty cool, right?

    And so are you, Jorgen.
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
    well, try a Sony A7R4 and you will be amazed how tiny a camera with 61MP can be today - sorry but I had to mention this
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Jorgen,

    I hear you and maybe a decent DSLR might be better for you.

    I have thought very much about this and also about modern mirrorless offerings lately and what would suit me best. I started loving the Fujifilm X-Pro3 lately ( the screen is just marvellous and much better as most complain, the camera is small and stealthy and fast ....) but when really thinking about investing back into another system asides my m43 I come more and more to the conclusion to go back to FF and back to Nikon again.

    Having said that I almost 100% sure would not go back to a DSLR based system again - so the answer for me would be Nikon Z system. There will be plenty of new cameras for that mount in the future and the lens system is already pretty good and will even improve over the next years. So it ticks almost all boxes ....

    Will see, anyway interested in what you will end up with!

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Here are the leaked data. More or less as expected. This will be a very nice camera, and an alternative to mirrorless rather than a supplement:

    Announcement date: 2020/1/7 10:00 Chinese time
    24.5MP sensor
    12 fps continuous shooting speed
    Eye detect AF
    51-points AF
    273 AF areas in live view (just like the Z6)
    ISO 100-51,200
    Shutter speed: 1/8,000 - 900s
    3.2-inch 2.36 million dot articulated TFT LCD tilting touchscreen
    100% field of view pentaprism
    4k/30p video
    Dual UHS-II SD cards
    Weight: 840g
    Battery life: 2260 shots
    EN-EL15b battery
    USB-C charging
    3.5mm audio input and output interface
    Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
    Weight: 840g
    Release date: January 16th, 2020
    Price (including tax): body 14,800 RMB, 24-120 kit 18,300 RMB (around $2,000 for the body)


    More:

    ・The Nikon D780 is a high-performance full-frame DSLR aimed at both creative photographers and videographers.
    ・F-mount lenses. 24.5 MP full-frame CMOS sensor. EXPEED 6 image processor. The same 180K-pixel RGB sensor and Advanced Scene Recognition system as the D850.
    ・The 51-point Phase-Detection AF system is sensitive down to -3 EV. You get flagship tracking capabilities and quick switching between advanced AF modes.
    ・The 273-point Hybrid-AF system is sensitive down to -4 EV, or down to -6 EV in Low-Light AF.1 Eye-Detection AF is available when shooting stills.
    ・Shoot at up to 7 fps with AF/AE, or up to 12 fps in Silent Live View Photography mode. Users get full resolution images, even when shooting in RAW.
    ・The D780 boasts a wider ISO range than the acclaimed D850. Work with ISO 100–51200, extendable up to 204800 and down to ISO 50.
    ・Shoot ultra-high-resolution 4K/UHD footage at 30p/25p/24p with zero crop factor. Record in N-Log or capture rich Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) footage.
    ・The 0.70x optical viewfinder gives a wide field of view and 100% coverage. The tilting 2359k-dot LCD monitor offers touch shutter release and AF.
    ・In-camera time-lapse. 2 MP stills at a blazing 120 fps. In-camera digitising menu. And more.
    ・The camera’s high-speed data-transfer capabilities and wireless connectivity make it easy to get images out there. And SnapBridge lets users share JPEGs and RAW files with any smart device.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This will be a very nice camera
    Agreed, but most new cameras are when they get launched
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    and an alternative to mirrorless rather than a supplement
    Not for me, certainly not this camera but also in general.
    DSLR's and Mirrorless camera's each have some unique aspects that can't be done with the other. So for me both type of systems are complementary.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Basically, it's a Z6 with an OVF and 7 times the battery life. With this, I can travel around the world with one battery and no dedicated charger other than the one I use for my phone. I don't need more than this. A perfect companion for my F80

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    No round viewfinder unfortunately, and diopter adjustment is just to +1 (+2). It has a different eyecup from the D750 though, so the question is if they have sold the diopter lens problem. Time will show...

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    This camera is just an unnecessary move from Nikon IMHO.

    They should have concentrated their research and development efforts rather on their new Z system. While the D780 maybe will attract some old Nikon F mount shooters I think the number of units they can sell will be huge enough ..... I hope they do not get deeper into problems.

    Same is actually true for the new 120-300 2.8 F mount lens, that should have been out already 6 years ago. But now?

    On the good side they finally released the new 2.8/70-200 Z mount lens and this seems to be a real winner

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    This camera is just an unnecessary move from Nikon IMHO.

    They should have concentrated their research and development efforts rather on their new Z system. While the D780 maybe will attract some old Nikon F mount shooters I think the number of units they can sell will be huge enough ..... I hope they do not get deeper into problems.

    Same is actually true for the new 120-300 2.8 F mount lens, that should have been out already 6 years ago. But now?

    On the good side they finally released the new 2.8/70-200 Z mount lens and this seems to be a real winner
    This has been a very easy camera to develop for Nikon. The technology is mostly taken from existing cameras, mostly the Z6 but also the D850 and D750, and with the D750 still being a popular camera, this is a no-brainer. For me, it's a perfect solution to a dilemma; instead of choosing between mirrorless and DSLR, I get everything except the EVF in one, relatively compact package. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to add an EVF to the hotshoe using the HDMI or USB contacts.

    DSLR is still alive, and the impressive Canon 1DX III is another proof. I'm sure the D6 will be equally impressive.

    Don't forget also that a Z6 with 3 batteries is almost exactly the same weight as a D780 with one battery. Still, the D780 with its single battery using the OVF offers around twice as many clicks as the Z6 with three.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This has been a very easy camera to develop for Nikon. The technology is mostly taken from existing cameras, mostly the Z6 but also the D850 and D750, and with the D750 still being a popular camera, this is a no-brainer. For me, it's a perfect solution to a dilemma; instead of choosing between mirrorless and DSLR, I get everything except the EVF in one, relatively compact package. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to add an EVF to the hotshoe using the HDMI or USB contacts.

    DSLR is still alive, and the impressive Canon 1DX III is another proof. I'm sure the D6 will be equally impressive.

    Don't forget also that a Z6 with 3 batteries is almost exactly the same weight as a D780 with one battery. Still, the D780 with its single battery using the OVF offers around twice as many clicks as the Z6 with three.
    My main cons:

    1) EVF not built in - absolute NO GO for me - adding one is a NO GO for ne as well
    2) making use of old F mount - if one does not own all the F mount glass needed then I would never buy F mount again today as Z mount is simply superior
    3) battery life - you refer to numbers in product sheets and on paper - these are totally different (much shorter time) than what you can achieve in real life use
    4) I would never again want to travel the world (or simply just a country) with a bulky and heavy DSLR
    5) 1DXIII and D6 are simply ruled out for me because of price - these are highly specialised cameras that make sense only for some selected pro shooters
    6) if the would have taken the AF system of the D850 (150 points) then this camera would at least be somehow competitive
    7) ...... I could go on and on and on - you see this concept is simply no longer for me

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    7) ...... I could go on and on and on - you see this concept is simply no longer for me
    I know. They made it for me, only me... (insert deep, scary laughter here)

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Jorgen,

    You crack me up! Thank you for your humor.

    As a sole outlier myself in a different universe, I totally agree with your choice! Getting any new equipment for me will never happen again.

    That is ok, because I can happily spend the rest of my life with the huge MF and 35 mm kits that I have and never fully master them. That's good because I really enjoy the larger, heavier OVF cameras and the lenses do what I need.

    I cannot envision not using the DSLRs, because I despise EVF and my current cameras, including film cameras, are enough. If I cannot make good photographs with them, I will toss them and start oil painting. hopefully I will learn painting before that happens!

    So, we all find our sweet spot.

    Life is good... except for that unfortunate ... and.., blah blah blah, etc...

    Have a good week!
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Nikon D780, D750, D800, D810 ... eh? I had a D750: Used it only briefly. Sadly, modern Nikon cameras simply do not inspire me like the F, F2, F3, FM, FM2, FM2n, FE2 et all did. I liked using those cameras. Anything past them has been just another over-featured thing that I have to work at, it seems.

    Not that many other cameras aren't more of the same. As DSLRs go, the Olympus E-1 remains my favorite. If only Olympus had released the same darn camera with a 20 Mpixel sensor and faster IO, I'd still be using a DSLR. I still have my E-1 and still enjoy taking it out and making photographs with it occasionally.

    I never "went mirrorless" for the sake of going mirrorless. I moved to cameras that worked better for me and inspired me with a viewfinder that I could see better with, had less vibration, and that had the versatility to work with any lens I fit on them. I found the Olympus E-M1 inspiring, same for the Leica SL, and same now for the Leica CL. The CL fits my desires in this general "35mm film camera derivative" domain almost perfectly. My aim for a newer, higher spec camera with 50 mPixels has to have a larger sensor and be usable with many of my existing Hasselblad and Leica R lenses. It will be the Hasselblad 907x Special Edition... waiting for it, hopefully delivery soon now. My last Nikon is a 1961 Nikon F plain prism with two Nikkor lenses, 28/2 and 55/3.5 Micro.

    Back to the new Nikon D780: It sounds like a good developmental upgrade to the D750. If its new improvements suit your use and needs, it should be great. Enjoy it! Make great photographs with it!

    What else really matters?

    G

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Sadly, modern Nikon cameras simply do not inspire me like the F, F2, F3, FM, FM2, FM2n, FE2 et all did. I liked using those cameras. Anything past them has been just another over-featured thing that I have to work at, it seems.


    G
    /\ This.

    The F3 and FM2n were the last two enjoyable Nikons I owned, I later tried an F100 because I was curious about auto-focus,
    but as I still had decent eyesight at that time, I didn't need it.

    Over-featured ..... I found this on the 'net many years ago :

    Ian.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    B&H lists the D780 at $2796.95 and the D850 at $2995.95

    Why would anyone pick the D780 ? To save $200 ?

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    I see $ 2296,95 for the D780 at B&H.

    So you save 700 $ and 75 grams vs a D850 and except for the resolution of the sensor I don't see too many differences comparing the specs.

    I'm not buying either, but it's good to have choices for people who are in the market for a FF DSLR.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    B&H lists the D780 at $2796.95 and the D850 at $2995.95

    Why would anyone pick the D780 ? To save $200 ?
    $2796.95 is the price with the 24-120mm

    For some people, less is more. When I bought my D810 a few years ago, I bought it from someone who spent almost the whole amount buying a D750. He wanted a smaller camera, one that was easier to handle. It's not enough to look at the figures. You must look at the body shape too. The F6 is a good example. It's heavier and wider than all of the above, but the body excluding the grip is much thinner, which makes it extremely easy to hold

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Looking at the specs.... I think I prefer the Jethro Tull version...
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    I definitely prefer the John Lennon version - looks so cool with glasses
    Life is an ever changing journey
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Looking at the specs.... I think I prefer the Jethro Tull version...
    Who says one can't have both?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__wmsIn99E

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BehP7toCk

    My camera pusher, who won't have a demo camera available (DSLR is special order there now), quickly concluded that "This is the camera that you've been asking for, Jørgen".

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I see $ 2296,95 for the D780 at B&H.

    So you save 700 $ and 75 grams vs a D850 and except for the resolution of the sensor I don't see too many differences comparing the specs.

    I'm not buying either, but it's good to have choices for people who are in the market for a FF DSLR.
    OK my mistake. Still I think the D850 is worth 700 more

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    OK my mistake. Still I think the D850 is worth 700 more
    It is if you need what the D850 can do. However, if you need a camera that is more compact, or that offers more advanced, higher quality video and live view with functional AF including eye detect etc., the D780 is better value. For some people, a Prius is a better car than a pickup truck, even if the pickup can carry more.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 9th January 2020 at 02:56.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Who says one can't have both?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m__wmsIn99E

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BehP7toCk

    My camera pusher, who won't have a demo camera available (DSLR is special order there now), quickly concluded that "This is the camera that you've been asking for, Jørgen".
    I love YouTube. Allows me to connect with my youth, so much. The camera? Meh!

    If I can afford it this year, I am still interested in getting a Z6, Z adapter and the pf500.

    LouisB

  31. #31
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    No doubt where Canon sees the future.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/104013...ket-demands-it

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    No doubt where Canon sees the future.

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/104013...ket-demands-it
    "... for now". They have launched 3 DSLR cameras the last 12 months (250D, 90D and 1DX III), and rumours are that a 5D V is in the works. With Canon's extensive lens program, there's really not much to worry about for Canon users.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It is if you need what the D850 can do. However, if you need a camera that is more compact, or that offers more advanced, higher quality video and live view with functional AF including eye detect etc., the D780 is better value. For some people, a Prius is a better car than a pickup truck, even if the pickup can carry more.
    Haha! Value is so personal, it is a silly path to compare one's path with other's.

    Cars are an example. The total price value of my wife's two vintage/ancient? vehicles is about the same as half of a new Nikon D5... but they both are priceless, comfortable, safe, reliable and economical, saving us money every day. So, yes, value is the sum of it's worth to the owner.

    The D780 was designed for the market that you just described above. I hope it does extremely well!

    The D850 is a fantastic camera, amazing actually. The only reason I sold it was because it added no value to my work or pleasure. Even if it did, I needed the money to pay on our medical bills. Sadly. It got us a little farther along in journey and there will be another system for sale at some point for the same reason. So, value of a product can even cross the line of what the money value will do for the quality of one's life.

    A simple example is considering if a camera works for one's technical, ergonomic, spatial, and enjoyment needs. Sometimes, we shift the "needs"/priorities in our scales due to life circumstances. Sometimes we shift our desires and find the requirements which we thought were concrete have changed. Humans are like that, can't "trust" us, we are too fickle!

    Absolutes would be so boring, I guess.
    Dave (GT)
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It is if you need what the D850 can do. However, if you need a camera that is more compact, or that offers more advanced, higher quality video and live view with functional AF including eye detect etc., the D780 is better value. For some people, a Prius is a better car than a pickup truck, even if the pickup can carry more.
    Haha! Value is so personal, it is a silly path to compare one's path with other's.

    Cars are an example. The total market value of my wife's two vintage/ancient? vehicles is about the same as half of a new Nikon D5... but they both are priceless, comfortable, safe, reliable and economical, saving us money every day. So, yes, value is the sum of it's worth to the owner.

    The D780 was designed for the market that you just described above. I hope it does extremely well!

    The D850 is a fantastic camera, amazing actually. The only reason I sold it was because it added no value to my work or pleasure. Even if it did, I needed the money to pay on our medical bills. Sadly. It got us a little farther along in journey and there will be another system for sale at some point for the same reason. So, value of a product can even cross the line of what the money value will do for the quality of one's life.

    A simple example is considering if a camera works for one's technical, ergonomic, spatial, and enjoyment needs. Sometimes, we shift the "needs"/priorities in our scales due to life circumstances. Sometimes we shift our desires and find the requirements which we thought were concrete have changed. Humans are like that, can't "trust" us, we are too fickle!

    Absolutes would be so boring, I guess.
    Last edited by dave.gt; 9th January 2020 at 05:58.
    Dave (GT)

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    A personal side bar observation which has nothing to do with this topic!

    " it is conceivable that one day, the wirld (an actual typo that just occurred) will be destroyed because of an iPhone autocorrect error."

    Surely I am not the only one who has problems with it and the tiny munchkin keyboard!

    Dave (GT)

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gt View Post
    A personal side bar observation which has nothing to do with this topic!

    " it is conceivable that one day, the wirld (an actual typo that just occurred) will be destroyed because of an iPhone autocorrect error."

    Surely I am not the only one who has problems with it and the tiny munchkin keyboard!

    Never was more relevant:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2uBeiNXAo

  37. #37
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    "... for now". They have launched 3 DSLR cameras the last 12 months (250D, 90D and 1DX III), and rumours are that a 5D V is in the works. With Canon's extensive lens program, there's really not much to worry about for Canon users.
    ...for now.

    Seriously, there really is no need to worry, even if the production of DSLR cameras and their lenses is slowed or eventually ceased they will still be supported for many years to come.

  38. #38
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Just to be sure that I'm not totally confused, I took a few minutes to do a price and weight comparison between three cameras with three lenses each, D780, Z6 and A7 III with 24mm f/1.8 (28mm f/2 for the Sony), 50mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8. This is not a quality comparison. Most people who change to mirrorless claim to do it to reduce weight and size. Sources: B&H and dpr. The $ 200 discount for the Z6 body has been deducted. Weights include one battery and memory card.

    Total figures:

    D780 price: $3,750
    Z6 price: $4,200
    A7 III price: $3,300

    D780 weight: 1,730 grams
    Z6 weight: 2,010 grams
    A7 III weight: 1,407 grams

  39. #39
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ... Most people who change to mirrorless claim to do it to reduce weight and size. ...
    Hmm. I can't speak for everyone else, only for me.

    That was only my interest when I was looking at compact bodies in Micro-FourThirds and APS-C format, and considering the compact lenses available to match, when portability was the premium. When it came to replacing a DSLR, my motivations were always a better viewfinder and a more versatile body so I could use a wider range of lenses, both native and adapted. And I appreciate the lower noise and less vibration of most mirrorless (at least those from manufacturers that still know how to make a quiet, low vibration shutter...!). Many of the more compact bodies are too compact for my hands to be comfortable working with, poor ergonomically. And many of the ultra-small, ultra-light bodies are too difficult to hold steadily...

    I think the marketing weenies pushing "small small light and small" all the time are perhaps the root cause of the impression that "mirrorless" is supposed to be smaller than DSLR...

    G

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Most people who change to mirrorless claim to do it to reduce weight and size.
    I don't know the source of this generalisation but these points are the least important for me. I did change part of my kit to mirrorless for the short flange distance allowing to adapt many different lenses and the possibility of a magnified view through the viewfinder. The reduced weight/size is only a benefit if you choose the right bodies and lenses (as your table shows)

  41. #41
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I don't know the source of this generalisation but these points are the least important for me. I did change part of my kit to mirrorless for the short flange distance allowing to adapt many different lenses and the possibility of a magnified view through the viewfinder. The reduced weight/size is only a benefit if you choose the right bodies and lenses (as your table shows)
    I see the weight claim often from people who have changed or consider changing, as well as in marketing of mirrorless cameras. However, many will deny it when confronted with the facts, either the facts or the reason for changing. The only roads to lighter gear are smaller sensors and/or smaller apertures. Mirrorless does have an advantage when using smaller sensors though; the fact that the size of the viewfinder is independent of the sensor size.

    The adapted lens thing is only valid for a small group of enthusiasts. Most people use native lenses for the system they've bought into. Most don't even know that they can adapt lenses, lenses with full functionality, like F-mount lenses on Nikon mirrorless included. I've had that discussion wiyth converts a few times lately.

    There is of course a size advantage with mirrorless, since the shape of the camera isn't dictated by the mirror box, and I understand that many like the "always bright" viewfinder. Me? My liking for the original way of looking through a viewfinder, using optics rather than electronics, is gaining strength though. I don't care if the EVFs will probably be as good as OVFs in 5 years or 10 years or 20. If they are, fine, but in the meantime, I'll enjoy mirrors and lenses and cameras that say click clack.
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    But when all that is said, I think Nikon has done a fantastic job with the Z Series, and they are easily the full frame mirrorless that suit me the best. Nice, compact size, but still with great ergonomics.

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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    I think OVF's and EVF's will never be the same but they each have their strength and have some aspects that can't be replicated by the other. So choose what suits you best or choose both so you can use each to their strength.

    And the Nikon Z series are fine cameras but ergonomically I've never held a Nikon I really liked including these mirrorless models, but ergonomics is also a very personal aspect that's more than just big hands or small hands. Making statements about good or bad ergonomics "in general" always sound a bit silly to me.

  44. #44
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Can’t help but think this should’ve been the Z6II... Seems like a capable camera that has many of the features that many expected in the original Z6/7 lines.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 17th January 2020 at 00:57.
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  45. #45
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Can help but think this should’ve been the Z6II... Seems like a capable camera that has many of the features that many expected in the original Z6/7 lines.
    Nah... they didn't have the tools available to drill a hole for the OVF on the Z6

    Here's a useful walkthrough of the features. This will become a very much liked camera. Looks like an almost perfect upgrade of the D750 to me.

    https://www.dpreview.com/articles/09...the-nikon-d780

  46. #46
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Here are two Australian guys who really like this camera. Nothing new here, just pure enthusiasm:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfiy1YqzCCQ
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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  47. #47
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here are two Australian guys who really like this camera. Nothing new here, just pure enthusiasm:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfiy1YqzCCQ
    Great and valuable and brave move from NIKON to bring a D780! Especially for keeping their existing customer base happy.

    Still for people like me who only own 2 F mount lenses today (1.8/50 and 2.4/105)I will most probably never go back to DSLR.

  48. #48
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    Here's someone who really likes it, and he points out one thing that I agree with: shooting a long day, like 8-10 hours and several thousand photos, my eyes get tired from looking into an EVF but not so much using an OVF. Apart from that, he mentions an almost 70 shot RAW buffer and a few other things:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO2EX1UOyhU

  49. #49
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?


  50. #50
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    Re: D780 - living in the past?

    https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d780-review

    No surprises and no gold medal. It is after all not a mirrorless camera...

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