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Thread: I'm doomed... the D5000

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    I'm doomed... the D5000

    Calling it a Pocket Rocket might be too much. It's even bigger than the D60, which it does apparently not replace. And the articulated screen is not as well thought out as on the Olympus E-620, which has in-body IS, something Nikon doesn't.

    But! I downloaded the high-ISO samples at www.imaging-resource.com, and it's good... very good. Only jpegs obviously, but they are better than the D300, easily two stops better than the Olympus E-30 and nearly one stop better than the Canon 500D. This being an amateur camera, I'm sure they've added all kind of noise reduction tricks that takes away some detail, and that was clearly visible in the shadow areas, but it's impressive nonetheless. No D700, but for a third of the price and half of the weight, it's certainly a nice suplement.

    It won't meter with old lenses, it will only AF with AF-S and it has a small viewfinder, but it has 11 AF points and lots of goodies. My decision to buy the E-620 is in danger

    Did I mention the 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5? They've launched Nikkor a 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 as well
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 14th April 2009 at 02:22.

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    Senior Member deepdiver's Avatar
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Me too..!! Now I really want to sell my D60

    pic of my D60
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    E-620 is still smaller. I was disappointed it only has one cross-type AF sensor nor does it have the AF micro adjust. Depending on your needs it's certainly tempting.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    The target market is pretty obvious, and it isn't Jorgen (I think that's a compliment ). It will sell like cupcakes. There's still nothing on the market that combines SLR and video that is remotely close to "pro".

    Interesting to hear about the improved IQ though.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    The target market is pretty obvious, and it isn't Jorgen
    ... but I would very much like a camera with live view and articulated LCD

    On the other hand, they just lowered the price of the E-3 here to under $1,100, and I still have some Olympus lenses.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    ... but I would very much like a camera with live view and articulated LCD
    There's probably ten cameras like this one in the works from different manufacturers - in September maybe you can just pick any brand and get the camera you want.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Now, finally 3 years later than Canon they are able to come close to what a 350D, 450D and now 500D have been / are.

    What is the big thing they have achieved? They produce a me too thing, which others could do already for years

    Great Nikon

    I am neither impressed, nor amused!

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Now, finally 3 years later than Canon they are able to come close to what a 350D, 450D and now 500D have been / are.

    What is the big thing they have achieved? They produce a me too thing, which others could do already for years

    Great Nikon

    I am neither impressed, nor amused!
    What are you getting/trolling at?
    Last edited by Lars; 14th April 2009 at 11:40.
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    What are you getting/trolling at?
    ?????????

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    has no-one spotted the blinding flaw with the swivel screen.... wont work on a tripod or if you lay the camera down... seems stupid to me...

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Now, finally 3 years later than Canon they are able to come close to what a 350D, 450D and now 500D have been / are.

    What is the big thing they have achieved? They produce a me too thing, which others could do already for years

    Great Nikon

    I am neither impressed, nor amused!
    Since Canon launched their DSLR with video and articulated LCD years before Nikon, I think it must have been during the early fifties, it would only be fair if Nikon threw in the towel and closed down business completely. Still, I hope that they will soldier on for yet a few years, so that those of us who are not found worthy of purchasing a product conceived by Canon's divine leaders, can find a camera humble enough for our lacking abilities.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    has no-one spotted the blinding flaw with the swivel screen.... wont work on a tripod or if you lay the camera down... seems stupid to me...
    I've been wondering about that too, and it certainly looks like a disadvantage compared to Olympus and Panasonic. On the other hand, Sony has an even less flexible solution on the A300/350.

    Can it simply be that the camera wasn't designed with the articulated LCD to start with, and that the only place where they could find a place to anchor it securely, was at the bottom? Fuji did a similar blunder with the S3, that had an integrated vertical grip without command wheels.

    Canon is of course totally superior in this respect. To use the articulated LCD on the 500D, all you need is a hammer, a screwdriver and a hacksaw, and you can move it 360 degrees or more around any axis
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 14th April 2009 at 16:36.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Once upon a time in the world of Superzooms it was said that Canon had a patent on the side hinge. I have no idea if that is true. Panasonic did the bottom hinge on the FZ50 and switched for the G1. If that is really the case, perhaps others don't want to pay royalties.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Once upon a time in the world of Superzooms it was said that Canon had a patent on the side hinge. I have no idea if that is true. Panasonic did the bottom hinge on the FZ50 and switched for the G1. If that is really the case, perhaps others don't want to pay royalties.
    That makes sense. The old Olympus cameras (5050, 5060, 7070 and 8080) as well as the Minoltas all had bottom hinge. Being Japan, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those manufacturers actually trade technology and patents. Like in one side hinge against one dust buster.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    If you look at ergonomics a side hinge gets somewhat problematic. Two-hand holding gets awkward, and the left-side buttons would have to be relocated, breaking Nikon's standard button layout. This would probably also mean less room for the display if you want to keep 3:2 aspect.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    If you look at ergonomics a side hinge gets somewhat problematic. Two-hand holding gets awkward, and the left-side buttons would have to be relocated, breaking Nikon's standard button layout. This would probably also mean less room for the display if you want to keep 3:2 aspect.
    The aspect ratio! Why didn't I think of that That obviously makes it much easier to do on the 4/3 cameras. Adding to that is the fact that nobody are as consistent as Nikon when it comes to button layout.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Neverheless, it's no small camera. Size comparisons with D60 here (two images), it almost looks like a D700 body:

    http://kamerabild.se/nyheter/blogg/T...n_i_ar-1.46949
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    There seems to be more coming, British Journal of Photography posted this today:

    "As BJP went to press, Nikon unveiled two new digital SLRs - one entry level and another semi-pro - as well as new lenses. Both new DSLRs come with a high-definition video mode, with the entry-level model, the D5000, also offering a swivel LCD screen - a first for a Nikon camera."

    http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=852271
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    There seems to be more coming, British Journal of Photography posted this today:

    "As BJP went to press, Nikon unveiled two new digital SLRs - one entry level and another semi-pro - as well as new lenses. Both new DSLRs come with a high-definition video mode, with the entry-level model, the D5000, also offering a swivel LCD screen - a first for a Nikon camera."

    http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=852271
    I'm double-doomed

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    I think this announcement bodes well for all of us who want to see what is going to be offered in the next generation of D300/700 cameras as well. Vis a vis, tilting screen, cleaner, lower noise images etc. If they can clean up a 12mp image on DX, what will be the next increment up for these cameras upmarket...??? Fun stuff still coming...

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by DonWeston View Post
    I think this announcement bodes well for all of us who want to see what is going to be offered in the next generation of D300/700 cameras as well. Vis a vis, tilting screen, cleaner, lower noise images etc. If they can clean up a 12mp image on DX, what will be the next increment up for these cameras upmarket...??? Fun stuff still coming...
    Exactly my thoughts as well. If I can use the Dx00 the way I used my long gone Rolleiflex, I'll be in photography heaven

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Canceled my D5000, D700 and D3X already. This one looks much cooler



    If it's not for real, some people have way too much time to fool around with Photoshop

    Oh well, I suppose the S5 will last for another few years, until Nokia comes with F-mount (would that be a Nikia or a Nokon?)

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Jorgen - that was one great "fake camera" image, I am still holding out for a FF Fuji S6 with real 24mp and huge dynamic range...though I am not holding my breath, or maybe a 32mm square chip, modified view box, and 25mp chip with the same dynamic range for all of us square lovers...er... that didn't sound too good, but I assume you know what I meant...:-) but talk about a replacement for a Rollei or Hassy.....

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    If the D750 is real, and there's always a possibility that it is, it would be the answer to most of my needs. Wait and see, wait and see....

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    As I already own a D700, I would have to wait unless the D750 has the D3x chip also....patience...patience.....not easy to come by...

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    If find it hard to believe that Nikon would use the D3x sensor in a semipro camera so soon after D3x shipped. We could hope but I would expect more of a 5DII competitor with 18-20 Mpx, good video and high ISO.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Lars - that could work also, 20+mp would be good for me as an upgrade to the D700. The D300 will be kept unless it is a full 24mp, due to its lighter weight and pixel pitch. A 20mp version, if less then the D3x in mp, would still be a good camera for my landscapes. If the D3x chip version is realized then I will buy it and get rid of the Dx gear, as at that point, you could crop the image from this version and not lose anything compared to the D300. Lots of choices for sure....I think I can wait a few mos or so either way ...hehe...really no choice, with two kids in college, a D3x is to rich for me....my wallet is light enough as it is...:-)

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    A D3X sensor in a semi-pro body would be just what I need to sell off my D300. I hope they don't add the swiveling display. It would be a weak point both structurally (one more thing to break off) and conceptually (not really a "pro" feature). If they do go for it, I hope they engineer it with the strength of a diving board. I can already see people holding the camera up in the air by the display to get some extra height.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    "Never underestimate the depth of human stupidity." - Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love by Robert Heinlein.
    Great book
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    The rumour is that the D750 or whatever will be 18-20MP, but again, it's only a rumour.

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I hope they don't add the swiveling display. It would be a weak point both structurally (one more thing to break off) and conceptually (not really a "pro" feature). If they do go for it, I hope they engineer it with the strength of a diving board. I can already see people holding the camera up in the air by the display to get some extra height.
    I can't see why a swiveling display isn't a "pro" feature. In my case, it would make industrial as well as product photography very much easier, and I believe that at least my clients consider that professional work. But I could be wrong of course, in which case I should return the money they've paid me, shouldn't I

    As for strength; yes it can break off, but apart from that, the structural strength of the body isn't affected. Olympus made a video when they launched the E-3, showing a man standing on the prism housing of the camera. Those who tend to break things can always buy a D3X or a D3 or a D700 or a D300/400, but they will most probably be able to break any of those as well

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    If find it hard to believe that Nikon would use the D3x sensor in a semipro camera so soon after D3x shipped. We could hope but I would expect more of a 5DII competitor with 18-20 Mpx, good video and high ISO.
    Although it did not take Nikon long to get the D3 chip in to the D700 body! I suspect they get the pros to jump early for the professional body, get the profits needed to cover substantial R&D costs and then move on to the mass market. When you cut through it, there are little differences between the D3 and D700's. Their dilemma is that the A900 is eating their lunch in the meantime. They must get to market with a $3K range product with 20+ Mpx to stop that bleeding.

    JMHO

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Calling it a Pocket Rocket might be too much. It's even bigger than the D60, which it does apparently not replace. And the articulated screen is not as well thought out as on the Olympus E-620, which has in-body IS, something Nikon doesn't.
    . . . . and then there's the Olympus lenses.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . . . and then there's the Olympus lenses.
    Hmmm... and then there's the Olympus lenses. Yes, I can hear you, and I have a couple of those lenses. I think I'll move to some communist country, one of those where there's only one choice. Are there any left? North Korea

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The rumour is that the D750 or whatever will be 18-20MP, but again, it's only a rumour.

    I can't see why a swiveling display isn't a "pro" feature. In my case, it would make industrial as well as product photography very much easier, and I believe that at least my clients consider that professional work.
    I should have phrased this better.

    What I meant to say was that although "pros" have been longing for a swiveling display on their main cameras, the actual hinge mechanism compromises the "weatherfastness" of the camera. The body can have 70 bajillion seals, grommets and watertight knobs, the two-axis hinge itself will not be weathertight if it is to have a meaningful service life. Remember, the electrical connections have to pass through the hinge as I don't foresee Nikon employing wireless USB and broadcast power to present the camera body and display as two independently sealed units.

    I am not an engineer by training and I have found engineers to be clever little buggers who delight in making a fool out of me...
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I should have phrased this better.

    What I meant to say was that although "pros" have been longing for a swiveling display on their main cameras, the actual hinge mechanism compromises the "weatherfastness" of the camera. The body can have 70 bajillion seals, grommets and watertight knobs, the two-axis hinge itself will not be weathertight if it is to have a meaningful service life. Remember, the electrical connections have to pass through the hinge as I don't foresee Nikon employing wireless USB and broadcast power to present the camera body and display as two independently sealed units.

    I am not an engineer by training and I have found engineers to be clever little buggers who delight in making a fool out of me...
    Still, Olympus has managed, so it is apparently doable. It must be said though, that there have been examples of water intrusion behind the acrylic (or whatever material they use) that covers the LCD of the E-3, but that doesn't seem to be a widespread problem.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Yeah, but how many actuations can you perform on that Oly hinge before it gets compromised? If they are considering it on a "pro/semi-pro" body, it had better be ready to take a heap of abuse (hence my bit about engineering it like a diving board). Or as Cobra Commander put it: "It has the constitution of a vending machine!"

    It's like waterproof watches - they're waterproof up until you crack open the seals to change the battery, after that all bets are off.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Yeah, but how many actuations can you perform on that Oly hinge before it gets compromised? If they are considering it on a "pro/semi-pro" body, it had better be ready to take a heap of abuse (hence my bit about engineering it like a diving board). Or as Cobra Commander put it: "It has the constitution of a vending machine!"

    It's like waterproof watches - they're waterproof up until you crack open the seals to change the battery, after that all bets are off.
    Olympus consider it a pro body. I haven't seen any crazy stories about the E-3, but people literally went swimming with the E-1. That one didn't have a swiveling LCD though.

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Well we'll see what happens. Engineers, as I said before, have a pesky habit of proving me wrong.
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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Carlos - the watch analogy may not be accurate, the "waterproof" watches tend not to be weathersealed after a battery change due all to often to the kid in the mall, who is changing the battery NOT having the right tool to make it so. Whereas, if the watch is brought to a real jeweler or watchmaker, who does have the right equipment, they can be made "sealed" again. .....also I feel you are correct on one thing, if Canon or Nikon want to truly make a professional model with a tilt/swivel LCD and make it durable, some one could and would make it work....JMHO....

    p.s. my father was a watchmaker.....

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Never having bought a watch from a jeweler and/or watchmaker. My every experience has involved the loss of weather seal with a battery change. My current watch is a solar powered titanium Citizen bought at Macy's. Never have to change the battery. Water resistant to 7 ATM (though I will only ever hit that depth being tied to an anchor - the deepest I've ever gone is 100 ft (~3 ATM)).

    Thanks for the clarification.

    And I agree, if Canon/Nikon were to deploy a two-axis swivel hinge display on a pro/semi-pro body:

    A) It would have to meet the abuse/weather sealing standards of that body class
    B) Pros would make it their own.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: I'm doomed... the D5000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Since Canon launched their DSLR with video and articulated LCD years before Nikon, I think it must have been during the early fifties, it would only be fair if Nikon threw in the towel and closed down business completely. Still, I hope that they will soldier on for yet a few years, so that those of us who are not found worthy of purchasing a product conceived by Canon's divine leaders, can find a camera humble enough for our lacking abilities.

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