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3rd-party macro lenses on Nikon Z

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Is anybody using the newest Tamron 017 90mm macro successfully on the Nikon Z+FTZ? I've heard they won't AF properly, which seems a real bummer -- I once had an older version of the Tamron 90 macro and really liked it. What about the Sigma 105 OS macro?
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
Good question Jack, I'm curious how my Tampon 90mm (previous to current version) and 150mm Sigma would "stack" up....;)

:toocool:
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Is anybody using the newest Tamron 017 90mm macro successfully on the Nikon Z+FTZ? I've heard they won't AF properly, which seems a real bummer -- I once had an older version of the Tamron 90 macro and really liked it. What about the Sigma 105 OS macro?
Yes :)
https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium...n-medium-format-film-images-2.html#post804533

much sharper as the Zeiss Milvus 100 macro. (look a bit back)
Don't remember if I got any AF issues.
Its the lens I will use for digitizing my 6x6 Velvia pictures. Its just super, but colors need corrected a bit more than the Zeiss.
Dont use camera's for the time being, other heavy things to sort out, but could take it out for a walk, instead of being camera-lacking out there..
best thorkil
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Well, went ahead and took the chance -- will let you know after it gets here. I am not overly optimistic given reports from several folks it doesn't work. But for a few it seems to, so my fingers are crossed LOL
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Well, went ahead and took the chance -- will let you know after it gets here. I am not overly optimistic given reports from several folks it doesn't work. But for a few it seems to, so my fingers are crossed LOL
Bad conscience here: should have put it on at once: yes there are hefty AF-problems, specially in low light and non-contrast-subjects :facesmack:, but haven't spend more than a few minutes..sorry..I guess I used at MF,
but I'm still keeping it for digitizing.
But...rescue, if you are patient:
Update is planned to be released:
https://www.tamron.com/faq/products/nikon_z.html
I will be patient, while its stellar
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Bad conscience here: should have put it on at once: yes there are hefty AF-problems, specially in low light and non-contrast-subjects :facesmack:, but haven't spend more than a few minutes..sorry..I guess I used at MF,
but I'm still keeping it for digitizing
Oh frick, it figures. I so wanted it to work normally...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Bad conscience here: should have put it on at once: yes there are hefty AF-problems, specially in low light and non-contrast-subjects :facesmack:, but haven't spend more than a few minutes..sorry..I guess I used at MF,
but I'm still keeping it for digitizing.
But...rescue, if you are patient:
Update is planned to be released:
https://www.tamron.com/faq/products/nikon_z.html
I will be patient, while its stellar
Thorkil,

You can relax your bad conscience :)

The lens just arrived, an exc+ condition used specimen. On my Z7 body with my FTZ adapter, it does AF. Not superbly mind you, slow and a little hunt-ish, kind of like 2004 era AF, and with a bit of bizarre buzzing for added effect... I'm also not yet 100% certain the VR is working, and it doesn't really want to get to f2.8 and limits out based on subject distance -- but other than all that, it's great! :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Seriously, the results appear not just good, but flat out stunning optically, and this is wide open and from corner to corner! So just like you, for the meantime I will gladly manage with its warts and hope a FW update comes along soon to fix the erratic and noisy AF :thumbs:
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Thorkil,

You can relax your bad conscience :)

The lens just arrived, an exc+ condition used specimen. On my Z7 body with my FTZ adapter, it does AF. Not superbly mind you, slow and a little hunt-ish, kind of like 2004 era AF, and with a bit of bizarre buzzing for added effect... I'm also not yet 100% certain the VR is working, and it doesn't really want to get to f2.8 and limits out based on subject distance -- but other than all that, it's great! :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Seriously, the results appear not just good, but flat out stunning optically, and this is wide open and from corner to corner! So just like you, for the meantime I will gladly manage with its warts and hope a FW update comes along soon to fix the erratic and noisy AF :thumbs:
Good to hear, Jack, that you just got these "minor" problems, and it also lock-up in a sort of strange small AF-hunting-loop, just as an extra bonus point :ROTFL:, so one has to restart the camera (tried in dimm-bulb-light)(in these condition its only MF) - but else, I was absolutely taken too by it's totally razorsharp ability, the Zeiss 100 macro was almost unsharp compared - but colors one has to arrange to taste, where Zeiss was spot on - or bring the whiball pocket-card, in the pocket.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
and it also lock-up in a sort of strange small AF-hunting-loop, just as an extra bonus point :ROTFL:,
Yes, I did have that also happen a couple times on my walk today. I will process and post a few images tomorrow -- but so far and just going by LCD review, I am very happy with the rendering!
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Just for thread posterity, all taken on my walk earlier today with the Tamron 90mm (F017) Macro using AF. All except the rabbits at f8, all processed essentially "as shot" in C1, including no changes to color. It was marginally thin overcast light, so nearly ideal for these type of shots. The rabbits were an afterthought grab just to see how it did at 'head-and-shoulder' portrait distance wide open.

Lens notes: The lens seems to expose about 1/3rd stop less than my native Z glass. Plus for whatever reason, the lens renders a tad more saturation than my native Z lenses even with the exposure bumped back up to normal. I do not find either a significant issue. C1 does recognize the lens and does auto-apply CA and distortion corrections, but in turning them off and on I could not detect any difference of note.

In simple summary, I do really like the way this lens draws. C&C welcome.

The sharpness is stunning:


I moved a little during this capture, but still like it:


Color rendering is lovely:


While not a definitive bokeh test, I find the basic background characteristics pleasing:


Did I mention this lens is SHARP? ;)
 
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Swissblad

Well-known member
Have fun Jack - the Tamron 90mm macro has been a great lens in various iterations for the past 4 decades!
Good to hear ti works well on the Z7 - curious if it will also permit focus shift for focus stacking - which would be regal for real close up work.

:thumbs:
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Swiss,

Just to be clear, it does not "work well" on the Z7! It functions about 10% better than an all manual lens LOL!!! Optically it is stellar --as good as the 50/1.8S IMHO-- and for that reason, I will suffer its warts. I am not sure most other photogs, especially those that never shot with all manual cameras, would appreciate the errant functionality. I am also pretty certain 3rd party glass will not do the auto-focus-stacking that the native Nikon lenses will. Hope that clarifies!
 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
FWIW, I have this lens in Canon mount. It works well for automatic focus stacking on the GFX 100 with the Techart adapter. However as it has internal focusing there is quite a bit of focus breathing, i.e. it changes FL as focus changes, resulting in change of size of the subject. This seems to create problems for the stacking SF; in my case Helicon Focus, causing ghosts along some edges etc. For less deep subjects it works well.
Here is an image close to 1:1, IIRC 16 exposures in FF mode. On the GFX100 this results in a file of about 60 mpx.

 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Just for thread posterity since the 105 VR macro is an obvious competitor, and the fact I got one to play with for a bit ( :LOL: ).

Some quick comparison notes to the 90 Tamron macro:

* The VR macro is a little larger in all dimensions and a little heavier.
* The VR absolutely works, as do all other normal lens functions on the Z7 w/FTZ.
* Color is a tad warmer from the native Nikon lens.
* Bokeh on both is comparably pleasant, but appears a slight bit smoother from the Nikon at least to my eyes...
* Sharpness: Without performing a side-by-side, this is simply a more casual observation. But the Nikon lens is not that stellar wide open -- not horrible, just not "impressive." By contrast the Tamron is impressively sharp even wide open. On the uptick, the Nikon sharpens up significantly by f4; and from f4 or 4.5 on, it and the Tammy appear neck and neck. Another uptick for the Nikon lens is the VR -- it absolutely improves hand-held macro usability. We can only hope that Tamron gets a FW update for their lens on the FTZ/Z7 ASAP... As it sits now, I have to give the nod to the Nikon simply for usability; but the Tammy retains the nod for absolute optical performance. That said, the Nikon is no slouch optically and is certainly easy to use. Both are really good at what they do if the photographer can live with the Tammy's current firmware foibles.

Nikon Z7, FTZ, 105 VR G Macro, hand-held @ f5.6:

 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
I have the 105 VR Micro Nikkor also. They are a bit difficult to compare directly due to different FLs. Generally I agree with your assesment, but I might add that I find the Tamron somewhat better at distance, so in this respect it is a little more versatile for all around usage IMO.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
However as it has internal focusing there is quite a bit of focus breathing, i.e. it changes FL as focus changes, resulting in change of size of the subject.
I'm relatively new to focus stacking but I haven't found a method yet to always keep the size of the subject equal and avoid "shading" of certain areas in deeper/more complicated structures. If you move the camera on a macro rail (and don't change the focus on the lens) the subject size and perspective changes, if you change focus on the lens it changes the size of the subject (and sometimes also the perspective).
Theoretically there must be a way to move the camera and the focus of the lens together to achieve a pure constant size but as soon as you move the camera the perspective changes, so that problem doesn't go away.
I don't know if there is a method to avoid changing size and perspective at the same time, maybe with a tech cam and/or special lens but not with a "simple" full frame camera.
My experience is that using a long lens and macro rail gives the least problems in Helicon focus (the program I use) but since my camera has no automated focus stacking it might be that those results aren't looking as good in my case because I find that making reliable small steps of manual focus on the lens is much harder to do than reliably move a macro rail in small constant steps.

Sorry for this long story, don't want to derail this thread so if you (or others) want to discuss further or have any golden tips maybe we need to start a new thread discussing different focus stacking methods and the best way to capture the images.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm relatively new to focus stacking but I haven't found a method yet to always keep the size of the subject equal and avoid "shading" of certain areas in deeper/more complicated structures. If you move the camera on a macro rail (and don't change the focus on the lens) the subject size and perspective changes, if you change focus on the lens it changes the size of the subject (and sometimes also the perspective).
Theoretically there must be a way to move the camera and the focus of the lens together to achieve a pure constant size but as soon as you move the camera the perspective changes, so that problem doesn't go away.
I don't know if there is a method to avoid changing size and perspective at the same time, maybe with a tech cam and/or special lens but not with a "simple" full frame camera.
My experience is that using a long lens and macro rail gives the least problems in Helicon focus (the program I use) but since my camera has no automated focus stacking it might be that those results aren't looking as good in my case because I find that making reliable small steps of manual focus on the lens is much harder to do than reliably move a macro rail in small constant steps.

Sorry for this long story, don't want to derail this thread so if you (or others) want to discuss further or have any golden tips maybe we need to start a new thread discussing different focus stacking methods and the best way to capture the images.
This is for a sure a discussion worthy of its own thread. I've always found it very difficult to focus stack macro for this very reason, regardless of lens used -- at least back in the early days where I actually experimented with Helicon Focus... Most primes have to extend optically to focus closer -- this actually also increases the focal length of the lens and corresponding image magnification. I had a rail and attempted to use it a few times, and recall getting it to work once or twice, but seem to remember inconsistent results. IIRC, my best results were from a tele zoom with a diopter, since most zooms are internal focus and as such don't change focal as they focus closer -- or more accurately, they actually reduce focal length to focus closer lol. Regardless, if you have one where the the internal focal length reduction matches the focus extension, then image magnification remains reasonably constant as you shift focus.
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
This is for a sure a discussion worthy of its own thread. I've always found it very difficult to focus stack macro for this very reason, regardless of lens used -- at least back in the early days where I actually experimented with Helicon Focus... Most primes have to extend optically to focus closer -- this actually also increases the focal length of the lens and corresponding image magnification. I had a rail and attempted to use it a few times, and recall getting it to work once or twice, but seem to remember inconsistent results. IIRC, my best results were from a tele zoom with a diopter, since most zooms are internal focus and as such don't change focal as they focus closer -- or more accurately, they actually reduce focal length to focus closer lol. Regardless, if you have one where the the internal focal length reduction matches the focus extension, then image magnification remains reasonably constant as you shift focus.
Absolutely - I've only tried it a few times - and it is tricky.

:thumbs:
 
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