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Thread: Z5

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Great camera indeed and a model that Nikon desperately needed to stay competitive.

    As an entry level FF camera that uses the ever growing Z mount this is definitely VERY appealing and interesting. And one can still use the "ancient" SD cards and be part of the game. Although I have started to love my CFExpress cards I am using with my Z7

    One other thing that I really like are these new compact zooms 24-50 or 24-200 that make FF really small and versatile and actually start making smaller sensor sizes (both APSC and m43) kind of obsolete. Especially when considering the much better high ISO capabilities of FF.

    So actually all to love about the path Nikon is going with their (FF) Z system.
    Last edited by ptomsu; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:31.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    CFE is definitely nice when transferring images off the card, very fast. I do however miss the option of sending jpegs to a smaller card while raws are on the main card, and look forward to the addition of a second card slot in the next rev of the Z body.
    Jack
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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    CFE is definitely nice when transferring images off the card, very fast. I do however miss the option of sending jpegs to a smaller card while raws are on the main card, and look forward to the addition of a second card slot in the next rev of the Z body.
    I hear you, but I actually hope that the Z6s/Z7s will offer DUAL CFE.

    Maybe its only me though .....

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I hear you, but I actually hope that the Z6s/Z7s will offer DUAL CFE.

    Maybe its only me though .....
    No, I agree it would be nice too -- I'm just not sure there's room for 2 CFE/XQD slots...
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    The beauty of the Z5 is in it's simplicity while keeping quality solution where it counts:

    - Good viewfinder
    - Great battery life for a mirrorless
    - Dual card slots that uses cheap, readily available SD cards
    - Same great ergonomics as the other Z-cameras and Nikon cameras in general

    If I were going to buy Nikon mirrorless now, this is the camera I would buy.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    It certainly hits enough high points to look like a winner! Same resolution as the Z6, but with a simpler, non-backlit sensor. The Z6 excels at high ISO, yet this sensor has the same sensitivity range, so I am interested to see actual noise example images comparing the two. If within even 2 stops, it will be an impressive entry-level cam. A little less video capability and slower framerates are to be expected. The other interesting thing for me was while they put a lower-res real LCD on the Z5, they kept the same hi-rez EVF -- impressive for entry-level IMHO.
    Jack
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The beauty of the Z5 is in it's simplicity while keeping quality solution where it counts:

    - Good viewfinder
    - Great battery life for a mirrorless
    - Dual card slots that uses cheap, readily available SD cards
    - Same great ergonomics as the other Z-cameras and Nikon cameras in general

    If I were going to buy Nikon mirrorless now, this is the camera I would buy.
    I agree, Jorgen. A few years ago, I couldn't have imagined an "entry level" 35mm full-frame mirrorless camera for "emerging creatives" having as rich a feature set. IBIS, Eye AF, EXPEED 6 processor, ISO to 51,200, in addition to those features you've mentioned. We've been spoiled. In a good way. I've got an IR-converted Z6 with the Z 24-70mm f/4 lens "glued" on, so I've got a teeny bit of Nikon blood still in my veins. I'll keep watching this space to see real world photos from other than pre-release reviewers.

    Joe
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    Re: Z5

    Doesn’t seem like a bad offering but if the rumored updates to the Z6/7 are true I wonder if this was wasted development resources when they could continue to sell the current versions at a cheaper price. Seems like if the rumors are true they’ll be discounting this model pretty heavily within the next few months (competition aside)... assuming the rumors are true. I think I would’ve rather have seen them put out a Z8/9 that competes on the higher end of things as I think the Z50 already captures the casual users and I don’t know that this is priced low enough that I wouldn’t just get the Z6 anyway since they’re often discounted with the 24-70/4 within the price range of the Z5+24-50 Kit stateside (I’ve seen the Z6 kit sold new for $1800 USD).

    I would think that with camera sales down across the board, companies would shrink the number of models offered. Especially the companies that appear to be hurting more financially. I don’t necessarily want to see Nikon need to go the way of Olympus but outside the choice of SD cards and dual card slots, I don’t see the purpose at this price point with the Z50 and Z6 already doing the purpose of the camera unless the Z6 is about to go EOL and the replacement is going further upmarket with dual CFE slots... but then Nikon could pack in a CFE card with the Z6 and make it the value camera too...
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    Re: Z5

    This might explain why Nikon apparently purposely 'crippled' the Z50 with only 20meg pixells when their best previous APS-C bodies had 24meg...and also the top of the range APS-C (D75?) being weirdly down graded compared to previous model. Perhaps Nikon are going to lose the APS-C range or convert it to phones....!?

    I have to say that the stuff about Z5 made me sit straight up in my seat this morning and I have been counting my surplus pennies!.......I could get an adaptor for my Canon FD lenses and then later dump them and just use the 24-70 f4...no more lenses to carry, no more lens changes......no more camera dramas, just get on with the photography and PRINT NICE AND BIG!!

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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Doesnít seem like a bad offering but if the rumored updates to the Z6/7 are true I wonder if this was wasted development resources when they could continue to sell the current versions at a cheaper price. Seems like if the rumors are true theyíll be discounting this model pretty heavily within the next few months (competition aside)... assuming the rumors are true. I think I wouldíve rather have seen them put out a Z8/9 that competes on the higher end of things as I think the Z50 already captures the casual users and I donít know that this is priced low enough that I wouldnít just get the Z6 anyway since theyíre often discounted with the 24-70/4 within the price range of the Z5+24-50 Kit stateside (Iíve seen the Z6 kit sold new for $1800 USD).

    I would think that with camera sales down across the board, companies would shrink the number of models offered. Especially the companies that appear to be hurting more financially. I donít necessarily want to see Nikon need to go the way of Olympus but outside the choice of SD cards and dual card slots, I donít see the purpose at this price point with the Z50 and Z6 already doing the purpose of the camera unless the Z6 is about to go EOL and the replacement is going further upmarket with dual CFE slots... but then Nikon could pack in a CFE card with the Z6 and make it the value camera too...
    Many Japanese electronics manufacturers, including Nikon (and Sony), routinely cannibalize their existing products with new products. It's a business practice that confounded us when I worked for Ma Bell. Their product cycles are insanely short and are designed to leapfrog current products even before the current products are EOL. Also, the products aren't organized into neat well-defined product categories and oftentimes are developed by separate and competing product teams. With the decline of camera sales worldwide, I don't know whether this type of product development culture can survive, but it tends to keep the manufacturer's name in the news flow.

    So think of the Z5 as just another Nikon "vessel" for Z-mount lenses, not as a discrete competitor of the Z6, Z7, Z50, Zxx.

    I might get one and have it converted to 720nm IR. That would allow me to divest my IR-converted Z6, my XQD cards, my XQD card reader(s), etc.

    Joe
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Not wanting to steer this OT, but since IR conversion was mentioned, I'd like to follow up. I too was thinking the Z5 would make an excellent Full or 2-Spectrum candidate -- relatively cheap and compact, has the same general control layout as my main cam, and takes the Z lenses. But then I start thinking that as soon as the upgraded, dual card-slot Z7 is released, I'm probably going to want one, and then my existing Z7's value will have plummeted, so maybe I just wait and convert it LOL!

    All that said, I would like to see some Z IR or full spectrum images if you can post a few Joe!
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    ... my XQD cards, my XQD card reader(s), etc.

    Joe
    Going for SD cards on the Z5 was probably a very good idea. Most people have SD cards, either for their old camera(s) or for other devices, they have readers that accept SD cards or even a slot in their computer, and they are very easy to find everywhere.

    The actual saving of a couple of hundred dollars can be important enough for many (there is after all a reason why they buy the Z5 instead of the more expensive Z6), but there's also the psychological factor, not dumping perfectly good cards or storing them in the drawer forever for fancy new card that can do things that most people will never do.

    Since this is a very photo centric camera, old, slow cards will do the job for most people, and one old 4GB card in each slot is probably more than enough for all the jpeg shooters.

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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Many Japanese electronics manufacturers, including Nikon (and Sony), routinely cannibalize their existing products with new products. It's a business practice that confounded us when I worked for Ma Bell. Their product cycles are insanely short and are designed to leapfrog current products even before the current products are EOL. Also, the products aren't organized into neat well-defined product categories and oftentimes are developed by separate and competing product teams. With the decline of camera sales worldwide, I don't know whether this type of product development culture can survive, but it tends to keep the manufacturer's name in the news flow.

    So think of the Z5 as just another Nikon "vessel" for Z-mount lenses, not as a discrete competitor of the Z6, Z7, Z50, Zxx.

    I might get one and have it converted to 720nm IR. That would allow me to divest my IR-converted Z6, my XQD cards, my XQD card reader(s), etc.

    Joe
    Yeah I understand all of that but I guess thatís why itís a bit of a head scratcher to develop the camera in the first place IMO. Iím not saying it from a quality of the camera standpoint... itís all coming from a business related tandpont in a shrinking industry.
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Yeah I understand all of that but I guess thatís why itís a bit of a head scratcher to develop the camera in the first place IMO. Iím not saying it from a quality of the camera standpoint... itís all coming from a business related tandpont in a shrinking industry.
    The Z5 and the Z6 are the D610 and D750 of the mirrorless world, Nikon's two longest running and probably best selling FX DSLR cameras ever. Like with those DSLR bodies, there's not an ocean between them, neither with regards to price nor with regards to image capture abilities. Still, offering both is important. The Z5 for the "The Z6 is too advanced for me and I don't need fancy video" crowd. The Z6 for "I want the best but I don't need a zillion pixels and I plan to shoot feature films in the near future" crowd. It's all about positioning.

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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The Z5 and the Z6 are the D610 and D750 of the mirrorless world, Nikon's two longest running and probably best selling FX DSLR cameras ever. Like with those DSLR bodies, there's not an ocean between them, neither with regards to price nor with regards to image capture abilities. Still, offering both is important. The Z5 for the "The Z6 is too advanced for me and I don't need fancy video" crowd. The Z6 for "I want the best but I don't need a zillion pixels and I plan to shoot feature films in the near future" crowd. It's all about positioning.
    IIRC the D610 was a replacement for the D600 because of a lot of issues they had with the sensors failing. It was released prior to the D810 I thought. The D750 was a higher end model that was a replacement for the D700 (in some ways) and the D610 for those that didnít want/need the D8xx series. So it doesnít seem like thatís a straight line comparison. Thatís like assuming the Z5 was an alternative to the Z7. They play in two different price points though there may be some overlap in users.

    Well no need to keep discussing. Just my thoughts. Iím sure itíll be a fine camera for some.
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Yeah I understand all of that but I guess thatís why itís a bit of a head scratcher to develop the camera in the first place IMO. Iím not saying it from a quality of the camera standpoint... itís all coming from a business related tandpont in a shrinking industry.
    Let's face it, most of these "tweener" cameras introduce no new breakthrough innovations. They simply package existing components - EVF panels, sensors, processors, rear LCD panels, control surfaces (buttons, dials, wheels...), and firmware modules - into a sometimes new "shell". In the case of the Z5, even the shell is already designed, just fabricated from different materials. You and I could probably develop one of these tweeners from the already existing "parts bin". So the magnitude of this development is nowhere near the scale required to initially introduce the Z6 and Z7. The technology parts bin is a powerful development tool, especially when firmware is written in reusable modules. A topic for another thread is, "What will be the next breakthrough innovation in camera technology?"

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    IIRC the D610 was a replacement for the D600 because of a lot of issues they had with the sensors failing. It was released prior to the D810 I thought. The D750 was a higher end model that was a replacement for the D700 (in some ways) and the D610 for those that didnít want/need the D8xx series. So it doesnít seem like thatís a straight line comparison. Thatís like assuming the Z5 was an alternative to the Z7. They play in two different price points though there may be some overlap in users.

    Well no need to keep discussing. Just my thoughts. Iím sure itíll be a fine camera for some.
    The D600/610 and D750 were both lower end cameras than the D700. Many claim that a replacement still hasn't been made for the D700, but for all practical purposes, the D810 and later the D850 filled that role, although with much higher resolution. The D800/E was to slow a camera to reach that level of operational speed and was more of a high-res niche camera.

    There are many components that set Nikon's pro bodies apart from the amateur bodies, the most easilly recognisable ones being the lack of PASM dial and the round viewfinder with replacable viewing lens. For old people like myself, who approach +3 correction, the ability to change the standard lens with a +2 or +3 makes a lot of difference for any fast paced work.

    It's worth noticing that none of the Z models offers these "pro" features. Hopefully there will be higher end models available later that correct this. If not, I'll continue using DSLR cameras for critical work when I go back to taking paid jobs in 3-4 years time.

    The D700 is still a very capable camera btw., and at used prices between $300 and 500, it's an amazing bargain. Should I build a pro business today on a slim budget, I would look at two D700 bodies with 3-5 used quality lenses and probably be able to keep the budget on the south side of $4,000 (2 x D700, 20mm 1.8, 28-70mm 2.8, 70-300mm AF-P, 85mm 1.8 and a macro, all used except the 70-300).

    Now I'm really off topic...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    "What will be the next breakthrough innovation in camera technology?"

    Joe
    I think the perfecting of BSI sensor tech is where it starts; it's probably what's going to allow a FF digital sensor to approach 80 to 100 usable MP resolution while retaining good noise and lower light capability. It also goes a long way toward solving the issue of the photon-bucket entrance angle. Coupled with shorter mirrorless flange focals, this further augments lens design. Now add sensor shift technology and you have some interesting times even at the current sensor resolutions. Finally, once you get to 80 or 100MP, 4:1 pixel binning becomes super viable for enhanced low-light capability. Truth is, I would take binning now at 45MP for hand-held night street shooting -- it could give us super clean ISO 52K?

    PS: Joe, I'd still like to see some of your Z6 720 IR images
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    PS: Joe, I'd still like to see some of your Z6 720 IR images
    Jack, rather than hijack this thread, I'll send you a PM and/or post some examples in the IR thread. BTW, I hope your prediction of sensor and camera tech is correct. I fear though that video is a pandemic-strengthened tsunami that may drown the dreams of us stills photographers.

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    Re: Z5

    Concise...not much more needed.

    Stay safe Jorgen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The beauty of the Z5 is in it's simplicity while keeping quality solution where it counts:

    - Good viewfinder
    - Great battery life for a mirrorless
    - Dual card slots that uses cheap, readily available SD cards
    - Same great ergonomics as the other Z-cameras and Nikon cameras in general

    If I were going to buy Nikon mirrorless now, this is the camera I would buy.
    koffee & kamera
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  22. #22
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Z5

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post

    Stay safe Jorgen.
    Thank you, Rayyan. One doesn't have much choice in this country. It's rather closed and very safe

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