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Thread: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

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    So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    I am curious what the rumors/opinions are on the possibility of a smaller, cheaper version of the D3x. I have been using the D3 for a while, and I love it, but I am curious if there will be a more affordably priced high MP body, to compete with the 5dII and the A900. I know most people have been expecting it for awhile, but is it likely to actually happen? What do you think the price point would be?
    The d700 was released about ten months after the D3...the D3x was released on the 1st of December 08, does that mean we could expect a d700x in the fall? Or do you think they will leave this high megapixel stuff to the pro-sized bodies?
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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    I would like to see it. This is from Thom Hogan's predictions for 2009 made back before the D3x came out. The last bit seems likely and a natural follow on based on previous Nikon intros.

    "Something not called a D3x: probably announced in late 2008, but certainly announced in early 2009 and shipped by the March timeframe.
    D3-type body, new Nikon FX high resolution sensor
    At least 24mp
    5fps
    If this is indeed in the D3 body as I expect, then I will also predict a D700-type body version of it about a year afterwards; Nikon likes using sensors in more than one body."

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    More recently on Thom's site he seems to be calling for the D700x in the near future.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Thanks guys. I have been looking at high meg alternatives now that the S2 price is out (and a wee bit more than I had hoped) and my Sinar system does not appear to have any future. I am kind of cherishing the thought of getting a high resolution option for a system I already own, which does not require a doctorate in color science and computer engineering to get pleasant colors. I have had a love/hate relationship with medium format digital (in contrast to my 100% love experience with medium format film), and I am wondering if my time and money would be better spent just shooting film in MF and getting a reasonably priced (sub 4000) high meg SLR.
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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    You might prefer the D3x which you can actually buy today.

    The ergonomics are better and the viewfinder is a full 100% which helps both in framing & brightness. I use a combination of D3x & D700 and I've teetered on the point of getting another D3 to replace the D700 (I sold my previous D3 to fund the D3x), although the smaller form of the D700 has it's advantages at times.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    That's true. I love the ergonomics of the D3 and do prefer them to the D700, but I think in this case, I would rather have the smaller body be the higher megapixel one. I use the D3 most often when I am doing event photography or night photography (like aurora photography and so on). In those situations I want its speed, ease of operating in the dark with gloves on, 2 CF cards and big bright VF. I would probably use a D700x in more favorable conditions, so I wouldn't necessarily need that last bit of speed and ergonomics, but I would like a camera that was smaller than the D3 most of the time. And frankly, 7500 retail is still a lot more than I would spend. I am looking more for something in the range of the 5DII and A900. I am willing to give up a bit in the VF, battery life and card slots (though I would love not to have to!).
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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    I took the easy route. I use my D700 for all low light shots, especially indoor functions, and use the A900 for all outside daylight shots.<G>

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I am curious what the rumors/opinions are on the possibility of a smaller, cheaper version of the D3x. I have been using the D3 for a while, and I love it, but I am curious if there will be a more affordably priced high MP body, to compete with the 5dII and the A900. I know most people have been expecting it for awhile, but is it likely to actually happen? What do you think the price point would be?
    The d700 was released about ten months after the D3...the D3x was released on the 1st of December 08, does that mean we could expect a d700x in the fall? Or do you think they will leave this high megapixel stuff to the pro-sized bodies?
    I doubt that they're going to release the d700x anytime soon, apparently the D3 sales took a giant hit after d700's release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Thanks guys. I have been looking at high meg alternatives now that the S2 price is out (and a wee bit more than I had hoped) and my Sinar system does not appear to have any future. I am kind of cherishing the thought of getting a high resolution option for a system I already own, which does not require a doctorate in color science and computer engineering to get pleasant colors. I have had a love/hate relationship with medium format digital (in contrast to my 100% love experience with medium format film), and I am wondering if my time and money would be better spent just shooting film in MF and getting a reasonably priced (sub 4000) high meg SLR.
    I can sympathize with your MF experience, I have a love/hate relationship with mine too, not so much for color but for other reasons. I've been eyeing the S2 as well but don't see why the experience would be any different here than what we already own, specially considering that it doesn't even have a dedicated software. I assume trying film with your current system would be a simple task, you can give it a go.

    As far as high mp 35mm is concerned, the main issue for me are the lenses, MF glass is really what sets the format apart from 35mm, it just doesn't compare. Don't know about Canon but imo outside a couple of lenses Nikon doesn't really have anything good enough for the D3x. Zeiss ZF lenses are better but no AF and still not in the league of MF glass.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    As far as high mp 35mm is concerned, the main issue for me are the lenses, MF glass is really what sets the format apart from 35mm, it just doesn't compare. Don't know about Canon but imo outside a couple of lenses Nikon doesn't really have anything good enough for the D3x. Zeiss ZF lenses are better but no AF and still not in the league of MF glass.
    I think that as far as primes are concerned I'd agree that the D3x really does push the capabilities of the Nikon glass. My preference is for the Zeiss ZF's although it would be better if there was at least the option of AF. (These invoke lens envy when I see the ZA AF's)

    I wouldn't necessarily agree though when it comes to the zooms, at least as far as the 14-24 & 24-70 are concerned. Hopefully the new VR II 70-200 will join the ranks of the previous two zooms.

    Don't overlook the abilities of the 24 & 45 PC-E lenses which I've also found are very sharp with the D3x. I don't have the latest 85 PC-E but this is also reportedly able to resolve well with the 24MP sensor.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Whenever they do release the 700x or whatever it will be called, I doubt they're going to make it be so much cheaper that it merits waiting. That was my take on it when I took the plunge on my D3x but maybe that's just wishful thinking...

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblask View Post
    Whenever they do release the 700x or whatever it will be called, I doubt they're going to make it be so much cheaper that it merits waiting. That was my take on it when I took the plunge on my D3x but maybe that's just wishful thinking...
    I think they need a product competitive with the 5DIi and A900

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    That's true. I love the ergonomics of the D3 and do prefer them to the D700, but I think in this case, I would rather have the smaller body be the higher megapixel one. I use the D3 most often when I am doing event photography or night photography (like aurora photography and so on). In those situations I want its speed, ease of operating in the dark with gloves on, 2 CF cards and big bright VF. I would probably use a D700x in more favorable conditions, so I wouldn't necessarily need that last bit of speed and ergonomics, but I would like a camera that was smaller than the D3 most of the time. And frankly, 7500 retail is still a lot more than I would spend. I am looking more for something in the range of the 5DII and A900. I am willing to give up a bit in the VF, battery life and card slots (though I would love not to have to!).
    I totally understand that sentiment. I use the D3x for all of my landscape shooting but I do prefer the D700's capabilities in low light and smaller form factor for travel. My ideal camera would have the same control layout as the D3/D3x but in the smaller form factor of the D700 - I don't need parity of controls with the D300/D200 etc. The minor difference in control layout is really the only irritation I find between the cameras vs the slightly different viewfinder view.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I think they need a product competitive with the 5DIi and A900
    I think you are right, although the interesting thing is what price point would they chose? I don't think that price parity is necessarily going to work without eroding other system sales. Somewhere between the D700 & D3 would seem appropriate so long as it is marketed properly as a high MP tool vs. shoot fast in absolutely any light tool.

    Whatever they do they'll no doubt upset some Nikon folks ...

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I think they need a product competitive with the 5DIi and A900
    Yes, they do but I think they haven't so far due to the agreement with Sony concerning sharing the sensors. Does anyone know what the agreement entailed. IMHO, that Nikon desperate for Sony's sensor technology to compete with Canon gave the 5d2/A900 market to Sony so that they could have the sensor technology. I think Sony was smart in getting extra volume out of Nikon for its new sensors to help it have enough volume to help keep the prices low on their sensors. Nikon is losing some of its customers to Sony A900 who don't want to pay for the D3x and want more MP/$ than D700.

    What I worry about is how this Nikon-Sony partnership will play out in the future since at anytime Sony could decide not let Nikon use its sensors.
    Meanwhile Sony needs to compete better in the low end DSLR segment to survive and succeed and will probably have to engage in a pricing war to grab market share from Nikon and Canon who have a large percentage of this high volume/revenue market which is needed to cover R&D for the future.
    Once Nikon comes out with a D700X (with a reasonable price) it will hurt the A900 sales for Sony and their own D3x sales. Price model of high-end DSLR is changing fast thanks to price/performance of 5d2/A900 cameras.
    Just my $.02. I just don't see how the Sony-Nikon sensor sharing agreement can last. Nobody talks much about this agreement.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne_s View Post
    Nikon is losing some of its customers to Sony A900 who don't want to pay for the D3x and want more MP/$ than D700.

    <snip>

    Once Nikon comes out with a D700X (with a reasonable price) it will hurt the A900 sales for Sony and their own D3x sales. Price model of high-end DSLR is changing fast thanks to price/performance of 5d2/A900 cameras.
    I'm not so sure that Nikon are losing customers in any significant quantity to be honest. Changing systems is a big deal if you've got any quantity of glass and I suspect that the experiences of a few people on these forums are quite atypical of the industry at large.

    Ditto for the D700X hurting D3X sales - I suspect that those who decide to buy the D700X weren't going to buy the D3X in the first place so I'd hardly consider that a lost sale. Depending upon pricing it may have more of an impact of D700 or D3 sales I think.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm not so sure that Nikon are losing customers in any significant quantity to be honest. Changing systems is a big deal if you've got any quantity of glass and I suspect that the experiences of a few people on these forums are quite atypical of the industry at large.

    Ditto for the D700X hurting D3X sales - I suspect that those who decide to buy the D700X weren't going to buy the D3X in the first place so I'd hardly consider that a lost sale. Depending upon pricing it may have more of an impact of D700 or D3 sales I think.
    Ok, Nikon is probably not losing any customers at the low end DSLR where the volume is anyway but they maybe losing some in the FF entry and high end because of the high price of the D3x and the unavailability of the D700x.
    Also, do people want to buy the D700 right now when you might think that the D700x with twice the MP is coming soon for a similar price.
    Also, some people with the money to buy one D3x will think about buying two D700x's instead if they need a backup and believe that camera body life cycles have become a lot shorter and not worth sinking the big money in one if the IQ difference is not great enough.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne_s View Post

    .. Sony needs to compete better in the low end DSLR segment to survive and succeed and will probably have to engage in a pricing war to grab market share from Nikon and Canon who have a large percentage of this high volume/revenue market which is needed to cover R&D for the future.
    Once Nikon comes out with a D700X (with a reasonable price) it will hurt the A900 sales for Sony and their own D3x sales. Price model of high-end DSLR is changing fast thanks to price/performance of 5d2/A900 cameras.
    .
    The Sony A850 is a badly kept secret. Essentially its an A900 with the same body and a few minor features removed and a significantly lower price point. It is likely to undercut a D700x while offering similar performance. Its Sony's pre-emptive strike.
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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    The Sony A850 is a badly kept secret. Essentially its an A900 with the same body and a few minor features removed and a significantly lower price point. It is likely to undercut a D700x while offering similar performance. Its Sony's pre-emptive strike.
    I think the A900 already did that!

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Nikon will take the time needed. The D700 is a unique camera, the D700X (or whatever) can only become unique if it offers something that Sony doesn't offer. My guess is that what we're waiting for is the implementation of video, probably the best quality available in any DSLR. Although many people don't care about that, young people do, and they are the future market.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Here is an excerpt from Thom Hogan's analysis of Nikon's earnings - released yesterday...

    http://www.bythom.com/

    The bad news first: Precision is contracting fast. Nikon's current fiscal year estimate is that the Imaging division (cameras and lenses) will be 72% (!) of the overall corporate sales this year, and the only profitable (barely) unit. Also, Nikon is predicting first half Imaging sales well below that of last year (down 26%). Unit volumes of all items (DSLRs, lenses, Coolpix) is also expected to be lower for the first half of the year, but recover during the second half of their fiscal year (Ocober 2009 through March 2010). Ditto for sales and profits in the Imaging division.

    The question, of course, is why the increase in the second half? Especially to the profitability. It doesn't seem to be "the economy will recover"--Nikon still remains pretty bearish regarding the overall economic situation, including the yen/dollar situation (yen starting to appreciate slightly again, which would reduce profits). I'd have to guess that it's high-end products. A D700x, D3s, strong D300s sales, plus three or four pro lenses would probably account for such an optimistic second half forecast.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Here is an excerpt from Thom Hogan's analysis of Nikon's earnings - released yesterday...

    http://www.bythom.com/

    The bad news first: Precision is contracting fast. Nikon's current fiscal year estimate is that the Imaging division (cameras and lenses) will be 72% (!) of the overall corporate sales this year, and the only profitable (barely) unit. Also, Nikon is predicting first half Imaging sales well below that of last year (down 26%). Unit volumes of all items (DSLRs, lenses, Coolpix) is also expected to be lower for the first half of the year, but recover during the second half of their fiscal year (Ocober 2009 through March 2010). Ditto for sales and profits in the Imaging division.

    The question, of course, is why the increase in the second half? Especially to the profitability. It doesn't seem to be "the economy will recover"--Nikon still remains pretty bearish regarding the overall economic situation, including the yen/dollar situation (yen starting to appreciate slightly again, which would reduce profits). I'd have to guess that it's high-end products. A D700x, D3s, strong D300s sales, plus three or four pro lenses would probably account for such an optimistic second half forecast.

    Or its just wishful thinking for the stockholders benefit!

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    More interesting would be market share results and data on profit margins.
    Good luck with the idea of 2nd half recovery. LOL

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    My 2˘ based on currently owning and shooting with both Sony and Nikon systems.

    Sony is a real value in terms of useful features, and some lenses in terms of IQ ... specifically the Zeiss offerings. It is no match for the D3X in ISO performance above 320 ... and is semi-useless in lower light especially compared to the D3/D700. Meg count means nothing when you simply cannot take the shot, or it's so noisy that you shouldn't have taken the shot . The Sony flash system is no where near that of Nikon and the ergonomics of the Nikon are subjectively better IMO.

    IMO, a replacement for the D700 needs to keep this high ISO advantage more so than the D3X does. I wonder if the D3X sensor can be conformed with firmware to produce better high ISO performance with a slightly lower meg count ... like 16 to 18 meg or something like that ... AKA: Pixel Binning.

    If it also followed the new D300s and offered 2 card slots for dual capture, and 14bit, that would be stellar as the current Sony has neither.

    IMO, that would differentiate it from the D3X which would remain the highest IQ Nikon offering, and murder the Sony even if priced higher by outperforming it where it counts the most ... in less than ideal available light ... while capturing to 2 cards @ 14 bit. As a companion to my D3X, personally and professionally, I'd buy that camera in a NY heartbeat.

    BTW, I think such a camera would eliminate the need for a D3.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Ditto for the D700X hurting D3X sales - I suspect that those who decide to buy the D700X weren't going to buy the D3X in the first place so I'd hardly consider that a lost sale. Depending upon pricing it may have more of an impact of D700 or D3 sales I think.
    I think that is a valid point. I don't think Canon is attracting new users with the 5DII, clearly a few, but I think most are already living in the Canon camp. I opted for the Sony because Nikon didn't have a D700x. However, I also see that as temporary. In my eyes, the Sony A900 and Nikon D700 are the first cameras that really feel like a digital version of the old second tier pro/prosumer film cameras (Canon 1n, EOS 3, Nikon F100, Minolta Maxxum 9). Although I love the A900, it is far from perfect and I'm taking a wait and see attitude toward Sony.

    On a slight tangent, when my Nikon system packed it in (sudden system wide failure) I decided to start over. I loved the F5 but not the price or weight and the F100 was unusable for me, so that ruled out Nikon. The EOS 3 was ok, but the 1n felt old and 1v was still a good way out. The Minolta system really did it for me, though the overall system price was pretty steep. I was strongly leaning toward Minolta when a Canon rep gave me a too good to pass up deal so I went that way. The A900 feels a bit like coming full circle and if my next move is to Nikon it really will be full circle. I did not check out a D700 when I bought the A900 as it seemed to be skewed toward features that were not important to me, much like the 5DII, but I really like the D2x feel and ergonomics and assume it is similar.

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    Re: So do you think we will get a D700x any time soon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    (...) I have been looking at high meg alternatives (...)
    An affordable High-Megapixel Nikon "DxxX" is just a matter of time, probably even a rather short time (within the next six months I'd guess).

    And an affordable High-ISO Sony "Axxx" is probably also just a matter of time. Maybe a little longer time.

    I confidently believe both brands will at some point catch up on these competition parameters.
    As an amateur I can just choose to patiently wait for that to happen.
    Of course professionals cannot wait, they need to go with the best current solutions.

    But ... I suspect Sony has a huge, very long lasting advantage with the in-camera anti-shake, as Marc (fotografz) mentioned in another thread on the Sony board.
    I believe Sony made an extremely important decision choosing that path.
    And furthermore (as Marc stated as well), Sony has the autofocus Zeiss optics !
    This could be a very strong, and long lasting, advantage, provided they are clever enough to move on and make it a full range of Zeiss lenses.
    The question is, will Sony do that ?

    For me it's always the optics first. I bought my Nikon D300 simply because of the Zeiss ZF lenses. But sometimes I need, and miss, fast autofocus.
    Right now I'm waiting for the hopefully soon to be released new Nikkor AF-S 1.4/85 (VR?) - or why not f/1.2 ?
    I'm convinced Nikon is capable of designing a stellar high-level lens. But will they do that ?
    For me this lens will be the acid test. If it is disappointing, I'll probably make the switch and walk the Sony-Zeiss path at some point in the future.
    I never got it why Nikon doesn't design a completely outstanding 1.2/85 to take up competition with the renowned Canon 85 (I/II) L ... ?

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