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Thread: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Maybe of some interest for those doing landscape and architectural and product work.

    So far for Nikon and Canon.

    http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...pro_for_dslrs/

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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    Maybe of some interest for those doing landscape and architectural and product work.

    So far for Nikon and Canon.

    http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...pro_for_dslrs/
    I'd be interested in this ... I'd love to see what the D3X could do using HD APO optics with T/S ability.

    I didn't notice what lenses it will accept. Did I miss it? If I couldn't use my existing view lenses then I wouldn't be interested at all.

    -Marc

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    All it says about lenses is: "Both VCC models accept a wide variety of lenses ..." not a word about which lenses.

    Will Sony Alpha mount be the next compatibility step?

    Or how about Leica S mount ? Any reason why Leica themselves wouldn't design a similar beast for the Leica S system.
    It can't be all that scientific to develop ... or what ?

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    ddk
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    All it says about lenses is: "Both VCC models accept a wide variety of lenses ..." not a word about which lenses.

    Will Sony Alpha mount be the next compatibility step?

    Or how about Leica S mount ? Any reason why Leica themselves wouldn't design a similar beast for the Leica S system.
    It can't be all that scientific to develop ... or what ?
    This type of product isn't new and traditionally has a no. of problems associated with it, ie; diffraction, heavy ca and worst of all imo is the inability to see the effect of the bellows movement in the tiny dslr finders, at least I can't.

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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    This type of product isn't new and traditionally has a no. of problems associated with it, ie; diffraction, heavy ca and worst of all imo is the inability to see the effect of the bellows movement in the tiny dslr finders, at least I can't.
    Well being able to tilt helps with lens diffraction from stopping down to far for DOF wouldn't it?

    As to focusing, that's true for sure unless you are using a modern Canon or Nikon DSLR ... since you can use Live View at 10X and scroll edge to edge. LV had changed all that for DSLRs. I'd bet it'd be easier to focus a D3X on this than an untethered MFD back on a view camera out in the field. (Not that the two are equals in terms of IQ).

    Don't know anything about color shifts with the Pro full frame models from Canon or Nikon. But both companies offer T/S lenses so I wonder what happens with those?

    Clearly, the advantage would be the use of the killer optics available for view camera work. Whether they would be over-kill is another thing.

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    ddk
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Well being able to tilt helps with lens diffraction from stopping down to far for DOF wouldn't it?

    As to focusing, that's true for sure unless you are using a modern Canon or Nikon DSLR ... since you can use Live View at 10X and scroll edge to edge. LV had changed all that for DSLRs. I'd bet it'd be easier to focus a D3X on this than an untethered MFD back on a view camera out in the field. (Not that the two are equals in terms of IQ).

    Don't know anything about color shifts with the Pro full frame models from Canon or Nikon. But both companies offer T/S lenses so I wonder what happens with those?

    Clearly, the advantage would be the use of the killer optics available for view camera work. Whether they would be over-kill is another thing.
    It all depends on your style of shooting and how you're using the camera movements and to what effect. LV or tethered is almost never a solution for me out in the field, too slow and too restrictive. LV is cumbersome and IMO one has to spend far too much time checking effects of movement and focus on a tiny screen in this manner to be realistic anywhere but the studio and still life. I know that you're a people shooter too Marc, so you'll the same issues, but if you want to use it as a high end adapter for other lenses, then great.

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Actually there is nothing new about this type of system, Cambo has had the X2 Pro and the Ultima 35 mm out for some years now which allows for more movements and versatility IMO. I don't own the X2 Pro but have had the conversion kit from my Ultima 4x5 ever since owning the D3 and it works beautifully though with some limitations which I will explain later.

    I have used this setup both in the field and in the studio with great success and have not found the focusing to be any more problematic than with ground glass focusing on LF. For me LV has not been helpful in most circumstances, though in some tricky cases I might focus, grab a frame and zoom in on the D3 screen or studio monitor to check and verify focus. In some cases I have stitched as many as 12 frames and on a regular basis 9 frames before acquiring my Betterlight scan back, once again both in the studio and in the field.

    The limitations, not necessarily in order of importance, are: lack of wide angle lenses, meaning 80 mm is about as wide as you can go without the rear flange bumping into the mirror box; and dust, dust and more dust. The D3 while a great camera is already a horrendous dust whore but coupled with bellows & movements and setting it up in the field sucks in dust and debris like you want believe. After a day of shooting figure about the same amount of time for cleaning the sensor... ok perhaps a slight exaggeration but not by much.

    I have posted the image below previously, so apologies for reposting but in context to this thread feel it might be relevant. This is a 9 frame stitch, 3 rows 3 columns with a final file size of just over 150 mb using the Rody 105 APO digital lens. The 9 frame stitch created an approximate 35-40 mm field of view. Suffice it to say this sort of photography is not for the feint of heart, the day was breezy and clouds were "moving". In many ways it made 4x5 seem easy. Incidentally I also setup my Zone VI and took 4-5 sheets of Velvia at the time. The film however went into the round file after looking at the completed stitched digital file from the D3.

    Finally as good as some of the new Nikon glass is, its still no match for the German APO digital lenses, they simply are in another class in every way.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob
    Last edited by routlaw; 18th August 2010 at 10:41.

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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    wow the detail in this web image looks astounding would like to see a real file sometime!!

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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    wow the detail in this web image looks astounding would like to see a real file sometime!!
    Yes, I would say its better than any drum scanned 4x5 I ever have got. Just as important though were the micro details of hue and color. There were subtle value and hue changes that simply did not even show up on the sheet film viewed on the light table and of course the dynamic range was much better with the D3 files, but then that always was the downside to Velvia... very contrasty film.

    But the sensor cleaning issue became such an arduous process and the Cambo Ultima is such a heavy camera the system is not very practical for field work unfortunately, unless you stay pretty close to the car and don't mind daily sensor cleanings for half a day.

    It seems every digital solution for field work does has its limitations unfortunately. Almost makes a guy want to go back to film.

    Rob

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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    what do you use to clean your D3 sensor?

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Horseman bellows and technical movements, for DSLR

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    what do you use to clean your D3 sensor?
    Have tried a number of different things and none of them do an ace job... well at least under my usage, so for now I tend to "lightly" use canned air to gently blow out the mirror box first, then again with the mirror locked up. After that for now I have settled on the Sensor Scope kit by Delkin Devices, a combination of miniature vacuum and sensor swab. But it usually takes many efforts before getting it really clean. Could be my incompetence but I am not joking about spending some 2-3 hours or more before its really clean. Its why I gave up using the Ultima 35 mm kit in the field, just not worth the pain.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

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