Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

  1. #1
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    There is all that hype and discussion about mirrorless cameras with EVFs and I must admit that the current quality of my EP2 and it's EVF is stunning.

    Now there is all that talk about mirrorless FT which could of course reduce manufacturing costs of these cameras but I do not see the real advantage as normal FT lenses are still big compared to what is possible with mirrorless.

    Extending this towards FF one might be able to build pretty small FF lenses when adding a mirrorless FF body. Best example is the Leica M system as we all know. Now with mirrorless design and high resolution EVFs available, this might have a bright future. Just think about small zooms capable of FF and high speed. For example:

    2.0/70-300 and a size comparable to a 4.5/70-300 as of today
    2.8/100-500 with a size similar to 100-400 lenses offered today

    etc.

    This seems to be really exciting future ........

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Trondheim, Norway
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    I would love an FF camera that is smaller than 5D! I adore my Canon, but sure wouldn't mind to have something smaller with the same image quality. It needs to be substantially cheaper than M9 though, and AF would be nice. I'd be willing to pay a price similar to what 5DII and D700 cost, but I don't know if it's realistic.

  3. #3
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    I would like a FF mirrorless/liveview cam as well. For many uses no one needs AF and 15snaps/second and all that.

    There is Medium format or tiny format. Nothing in between.

    May be Leica's M15 will be like that (though likely Leica price tagged).

    Someone has to do it.

  4. #4
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austria, close to Vienna
    Posts
    3,867
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would like a FF mirrorless/liveview cam as well. For many uses no one needs AF and 15snaps/second and all that.

    There is Medium format or tiny format. Nothing in between.

    May be Leica's M15 will be like that (though likely Leica price tagged).

    Someone has to do it.
    Leica M15 is a good one

    Fully agree!

  5. #5
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    The interesting thing about the new Sony mirror-less concepts at PMA is that it looks like the mount is at or near the same size as the Alpha mount, meaning FF frame cameras could be in the line's future. It has been said that Sony plans on doing a full line of EVILS of varying features and builds. Also, Sony said at PMA that Zeiss will be designing some lenses for their new mirror-less cams. Interesting indeed.

  6. #6
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Peter, I avoided M16, deliberately.

    Douglas, If Sony really would start their mirroless cam with an APS-C sized EXMOR-R sensor, I would consider them being serious and would preorder one without even taking a look at the color or design.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    46

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Vivek, Leica should be belly up by the time they could launch a M15

    Let guess that a mirrorless Canon FF could be underway to replace the 5D. When Pana showed up their G1, there was an interview of a Canon rep who said in substance they were going to look at this type of camera very seriously. Now the 5D is a bit behind for video and image treatment but the sensor is still among the best (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor), a mark III is awaited.

    It is defenitely the way to go.

    Michel

  8. #8
    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin, Texas, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    112

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    All Canon needs to do is make a digital EOS-1N.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    All Canon needs to do is make a digital EOS-1N.
    The ones with pellicle mirror were discontinued for a reason, wasn't it?

    Why bother with beam splitters, reflex housings, RF patches...?

    Welcome to the 21st century!

  10. #10
    aprillove20
    Guest

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Well, Leica M15 is a good one!

  11. #11
    Senior Member M5-Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Camby, Indiana
    Posts
    466
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    Vivek, Leica should be belly up by the time they could launch a M15 Michel
    Considering it took 56 years to get to "M9"
    That would add another 37.3 years with whole number models to get to M15. Ummmmm 2047.....I'll be dead by then (or d**m close)

    But a FF interchangeable lens camera sounds like it could be on a few road maps for 10 year projections. (just my guess). They could use any FF lens now made since the registry is deeper with a mirror. Similar to the Oly/Pany secondarily benefit of a shorter registry allowing Nikon, Leica, Canon, and a host of others.
    But I do want an EVF also, like the G2 or really descent add on EVF.

  12. #12
    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    I'll be astonished if Leica doesn't release a full-frame mirrorless camera -- probably manufactured by Panasonic -- with an R-compatible lens mount at Photokina later this year. They promised a "solution" for Leica R lenses, I'm betting this will be it.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    A FF mirrorless camera has great potential. If it is designed to work like a small size digital back, one could slap that on a tech view camera with adapter.
    In any case such camera should have excellent live view and tethered shooting capability.

  14. #14
    aprillove20
    Guest

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    This is such a great resource that you are providing and you give it away for free.

  15. #15
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    I'll be astonished if Leica doesn't release a full-frame mirrorless camera -- probably manufactured by Panasonic -- with an R-compatible lens mount at Photokina later this year. They promised a "solution" for Leica R lenses, I'm betting this will be it.
    This is very close to my guess. I'm guessing that the camera won't be exclusively R. There would be a much bigger market for a mirrorless camera with a short mount register that can take adapters for all sorts of 35mm lenses. If it's a 'smart' adapter that preserves the lens' auto-diaphragm and full-aperture metering functions, and a decent viewfinder, I'd be looking very seriously at it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member M5-Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Camby, Indiana
    Posts
    466
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Just a side note I'm observing with the advancement of m/43 and the NEX cameras.

    I'll bet in 3-5 years there is a newer standard....
    A camera that can take any lens from any maker...(these two mounts have that now..). But FF and more APS-c bodys are the future of mirror-less cameras. It won't discontinue the DSLR (yet)...Maybe the DSLR will only be for the "PRO Grade" offerings down the road...(5-10 years)

    It could happen

  17. #17
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    I'll be astonished if Leica doesn't release a full-frame mirrorless camera -- probably manufactured by Panasonic -- with an R-compatible lens mount at Photokina later this year. They promised a "solution" for Leica R lenses, I'm betting this will be it.
    Leica promised a digital "solution" for R lens owners? I didn't know that (how did I miss it?). Do you have a link to that promise/statement or whatever which I could read?

    So there may be hope yet......although to be sure, I'm pretty happy using my R lenses on the G1 with the Panasonic R adapter. Even so, a FF mirrorless camera taking R lenses (maybe even sold by Leica) would definitely get my attention.

    Gary

  18. #18
    Senior Member M5-Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Camby, Indiana
    Posts
    466
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Leica promised a digital "solution" for R lens owners? I didn't know that (how did I miss it?). Do you have a link to that promise/statement or whatever which I could read?

    So there may be hope yet......although to be sure, I'm pretty happy using my R lenses on the G1 with the Panasonic R adapter. Even so, a FF mirrorless camera taking R lenses (maybe even sold by Leica) would definitely get my attention.

    Gary
    3 is a charm.....
    the last two attempts for a digital back were a failure for the R8/9.... A FF DSLR R10 or a EVIL R10...... very interesting....They do have a FF sensor, so, to build a DSLR or EVIL body around the M9 sensor would have the major work already done. Well see soon enough..

  19. #19
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Leica promised a digital "solution" for R lens owners?
    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...an-daniel.html

  20. #20
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Denmark, CPH
    Posts
    2,500
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Leica promised a digital "solution" for R lens owners? (...)
    and this was said June 2009 (i.e. five months earlier than Doug's link):

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...el-during.html

  21. #21
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    and this was said June 2009 (i.e. five months earlier than Doug's link):

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...el-during.html
    Given the earlier promise of an R10 then the abandonment of the entire R system, I won't believe there's an R solution until it's on the market... but the latest I've heard from Leica is that they're working on it. FWIW.

  22. #22
    Subscriber Member Jonathon Delacour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    ... I'm guessing that the camera won't be exclusively R. There would be a much bigger market for a mirrorless camera with a short mount register that can take adapters for all sorts of 35mm lenses. If it's a 'smart' adapter that preserves the lens' auto-diaphragm and full-aperture metering functions, and a decent viewfinder, I'd be looking very seriously at it.
    I had imagined the most we could hope for was that auto-diaphragm and full-aperture metering functions would be available for ROM version Leica R lenses only. Would it be possible to design an adapter that provides such functionality for cam-based Leica R lenses plus lenses with widely varying mounts from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc?

  23. #23
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Delacour View Post
    I had imagined the most we could hope for was that auto-diaphragm and full-aperture metering functions would be available for ROM version Leica R lenses only. Would it be possible to design an adapter that provides such functionality for cam-based Leica R lenses plus lenses with widely varying mounts from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc?
    I don't see why not. The functional difference between a 3rd-cam lens and a ROM lens is similar to the difference between coded and non-coded M lenses. The auto-diaphragm is completely mechanical and the 3rd cam tells the camera everything it needs to know for full-aperture metering. The ROM tells the camera what lens is attached for software corrections and the like, but there's no reason a smart adapter can't have a lens database built into it, as the M9 does for non-coded lenses.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    1,040
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What about FF mirrorless cameras?

    I suggested a M9 with no top deck when the M9 was released here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...sm-no-top.html

    The idea was a FF M-Camera with liveview kind of like a FF Leica M version of the GF1 but as you can see in the thread but the idea was pretty much ignored. My thinking was that the RF and associated alignment was a cost that some of us don't want to meet.

    I still think it would sell -- Oh well!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •