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Thread: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

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    Arrow Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Few things:

    1. Enable manual zoom function with focus area user selectable- with any lens.

    2. Auto brightening of the EVF/LED screen (as in a Panasonic G1) so that they can be used for focus/composing. It is quite obvious that it is very doable from this experiment:

    Ambient light exposure times at 1/20s and ISO100, everything is dark. Set the shutter to 1/180s and lift the pop-up then everything (EVF/LED screen) brightens up.

    Whomever came up with dark EVF/LED was not thinking right.

    3. The rumored Schneider lenses- just offer them without any AF because AF and NX10 are not made for each other.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I don't follow #3.

    Dpreview mentions fast AF with the NX-10.

    Is the focus accuracy in question Vivek??

    Please elaborate why the NX-10 and AF are not made for each other.

    Martin

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    Member bcaslis's Avatar
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I don't agree with item 1. The Panasonic or Olympus gain up. The Samsung doesn't and it's clear the reason is to allow you to better guess at exposure. It gains up when you pop up the flash because it now knows it can get the correct exposure. It's a feature, not a bug.

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    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Hi, I was just going to add my observations regarding gain up and found it has already been said as above. In using both the G1 and NX10 side by side I prefer the Nx10 not gaining up and being better able to judge exposure by what I see on the screen. The histogram in the NX10 is also for me more usable so between these two things I have been using manual exposure more often. I also like the feel of the NX10 better but I do miss the larger viewfinder and swivel screen of the G1 when I am using the NX10. Its a good thing they are both small enough to carry in the same bag, sounds like a camera sales person talking, LOL Bill

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I don't agree with item 1. The Panasonic or Olympus gain up. The Samsung doesn't and it's clear the reason is to allow you to better guess at exposure. It gains up when you pop up the flash because it now knows it can get the correct exposure. It's a feature, not a bug.
    If it is a feature it isn't useful. Least they could do is to have an option where this "feature" can be used by those who prefer it and add the gain up (it is going make the EVF even more pathetic but that is tolerable) for those who do not need it.

    More than exposure, I want to be able to see what I am shooting!

    Even with a pen FT (!) I can see the subjects (under the conditions I mentioned).

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
    I don't follow #3.

    Dpreview mentions fast AF with the NX-10.

    Is the focus accuracy in question Vivek??

    Please elaborate why the NX-10 and AF are not made for each other.

    Martin

    Martin, The focus is accurate but not almost always where I want it to be. I used up all the different modes they have and the camera latches onto something that I do not want (may be it is a feature?). We are talking about bright sunlight ISO100, 1/2000s conditions.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If it is a feature it isn't useful. Least they could do is to have an option where this "feature" can be used by those who prefer it and add the gain up (it is going make the EVF even more pathetic but that is tolerable) for those who do not need it.

    More than exposure, I want to be able to see what I am shooting!

    Even with a pen FT (!) I can see the subjects (under the conditions I mentioned).
    Then we will have to agree to disagree. I think it's a better method than what Panasonic uses. A gained up, grainy, slow display isn't all that useful in my book. If you set the exposure correctly then the display will lighten up accordingly.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    My first day (rather one evening) with a Panasonic G1 >200 shots.

    NX10 after two days of experimentation phase, <50.

    I have used all sort of cameras from tiny format to very large formats, I do know how to set up exposure for a given subject if only I can see what the heck I am trying to expose for.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    One real feature that I just found very useful is that the depth of preview button can be toggled to be a WB set button (does an WB when used at the center of the frame). It works with any lens (system or non).

    Good stuff!

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I too prefer the gain. That's the main advantage over an optical VF...I've done side by sides, and I can actually see to compose with the G1 in low light conditions. I don't need the EVF to judge exposure, that's what the shutter speed and aperture indicators are for.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    At least with an Optical viewfinder (I mentioned the dark finder of the Olympus pen FT), you can go with the ability of your eyesight. These "EVIL" cams are totally blind without any electricity.

    With them, no gain, only pain and darkness.

    Now, I have to make a temporary sticky tape thingy to shut the OLED screen off. There is no switch (is there? the full manual is in a CD )to turn it off other than the sensor switch that annoying switches back and forth between the EVF and the OLED screen.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Vivek:

    Does the NX-10 lack a focus point select command, or does the focus point just vary from your pre-placement??

    Also, is the RAW converter compatible with MAC's???

    I have a G1, and found the gain up feature helpful in all but very dark situations. In those, I get a dark, grainy, and low contrast image just like I see without the camera.

    However, it is a helpful feature on images that are not too dark for composition, but I would not try to set the exposure using that EVF/LCD image.

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin S; 28th April 2010 at 04:29.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Martin, After selecting the AF point, it does work eventually. If you do not wait for the camera to do its hunting, you get fuzzy snaps. The focus hunting is very noticeable compared to the G1 (even with old firmware).

    No idea on the RAW/MAC. Sorry.

    Also, the UV/IR cut filter in NX10 reminds me of the Epson R-D1s. It isn't as bad as the one in M8.

    (I will show some pics later on this)

    The G1's UV/IR cut filter is a technological marvel. Though I have not taken the NX10 apart (yet), I think it only has dichroic coatings to cut off IR.

    As a result, there is insufficient IR filtration and the results for visible light picture taking would have problems.

    Google cyan fringing and digital. Yes, we are back there. Samsung do appear to have knowledge of the IR bleed and hence the images are already massaged to result in cyan shadows. This is not really a good thing at all if you are interested in good color fidelity of visible light images.

    I am glad that I bought the NX10 on a hunch. I can use it very well (despite the pathetic EVF and the darkening feature of the display/finder) as I do a lot UV and IR photography.

    If you are mainstream and want a compact EVIL camera, the NX isn't it- particularly given that the m4/3rds is much more advanced in terms of features and that Sony are coming with their own versions.

    However....if you have a collection of Olympus pen F lenses....the story is different.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    After your comments, I will wait for the NEX5, and see what it is all about.

    The G1 is fine, and I was only considering the NX-10 because of the larger sensor. But, there is a lot more to a digital camera than just the sensor!

    All the components must work to give an efficient, and useful result.

    It sounds like the NX-10 is deficient in a number of important areas.

    Vivek, thanks for your frank observations. Too many buyers are so taken with their new purchases that they become "fan-buys."

    Martin

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    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Vivek, Thanks for your post regarding the NX10, your post are an example why I check this forum several times a day. There is so much I can learn from people like yourself and your experience. thanks Bill

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    Senior Member LCT's Avatar
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Wilby View Post
    Vivek, Thanks for your post regarding the NX10...
    +1

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Vivek, allow me to add my thanks to that given already. Although I suspect many of us were hoping for happier news, the unvarnished truth is far preferable. Perhaps Samsung can make some improvements via firmware updates, perhaps the Schneider prime lenses will turn out to be great performers... until then I'll be content with my G1 bodies. However, I do have a collection of Pen F lenses so I'll await with interest your experiences with the NX10+Pen F combo.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Martin, Bill, LCT and Jonathon- thanks for your kind words!

    Here are some sample snaps (all were treated exactly the same, except for color balancing. Silkypix was the converter, resized and sharpened (same in every image) a tad in PS):

    1. (Snap#27) Backlit portrait.



    NX10, 30/2, f/2.5, ISO200, 1/640s

    I have a tough time getting the correct color balance on this. There is color fringing at the edges (not visible in this size) and the highlights on the hair.

    2. (Snap #90) Table top close-up



    NX10, 30/2, f/5.6, ISO100, 1/90s, camera on a small tripod. Image was cropped a bit.

    It did take a while to get the colors close to what it was. The light was a tricky one (halogen)

    I have a 43mm hood on the 30/2 lens.

    3. (Snap #56) Portrait by the window



    NX10, Olympus Pen F 40/1.4, f/1.4 (have to check the EXIF for the rest of the data). Colors were (as recorded) close to what it should be. A slight crop of the original.

    4. Self explanatory shot...



    NX10, Olympus pen F 40/1.4, f/1.4, ISO1600, 1/125s. Noise. It looks lovely in B&W though!

    5. (Snap 115) Reflected UV shot.



    NX10, 30/2, f/2.5, ISO1600, 1/4s, Baader U 2" filter over the lens (Baader U 2" filter transmits only between 320nm and 390nm in the UV range).

    Not only the cam is sensitive to UV but the lens also has good transmission in the UV region.


    The Olympus pen F lens was held against the cam (inside the lens mount). I do not think it is possible to devise an adapter. I might change the mount in the cam to pen F. Why? The pen F lenses I tried so far (40/1.4, 40/1.2, 25/2.8, 70/2) all do very well. Exceptionally sharp wide open.
    Last edited by Vivek; 28th April 2010 at 17:09.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
    After your comments, I will wait for the NEX5, and see what it is all about.

    The G1 is fine, and I was only considering the NX-10 because of the larger sensor. But, there is a lot more to a digital camera than just the sensor!

    All the components must work to give an efficient, and useful result.

    It sounds like the NX-10 is deficient in a number of important areas.

    Vivek, thanks for your frank observations. Too many buyers are so taken with their new purchases that they become "fan-buys."

    Martin
    Agreed :-)

    I have to say I was disappointed with some of the features of the NX10 (which were mentioned above).

    Finally Samsung have marketed the NX10 to be better because it has a bigger sensor. So I was looking for good low light performance. In comparision to micro four thirds, the Samsung is only marginally better and I think the GH1 is better than the NX10. But when you compare the NX10 to other APS-C DSLR's it really disappointed me. Go to DP Review and open up the NX10 review and micro 4/3rds and other DSLR's and look at the noise tests and you'll see what I mean.

    But on the otherhand the NX10, for those who don't need a lowlight camera, is brilliant and priced really well - twin lense kit (30mm +18-55) is 600GBP.

    It'll be interesting to see what the Sony's can do, especially with their new Exmor HD sensor, rumoured specs say ISO 12800!. Although the fact they have no EVF is a put off for me

    sorry if i've hijacked the thread and went on too much off topic ;-)
    Vince

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by vincechu View Post
    Go to DP Review and open up the NX10 review and micro 4/3rds and other DSLR's and look at the noise tests and you'll see what I mean.
    I would discourage that suggestion. When I change the mount on the cam, I will be able to show (pen F lenses) results that would show that the camera produces extremely sharp images.

    I think Samsung's flashes are worth (in terms of utility) more than their lenses (I do not own any of their zoomz) and if they offer those as part of kit then that would be a sweat deal.

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    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I learn something new every day, while showing the NX10 to customer I just discovered the auto brightness in the display menu, guess what? one can set the NX10 to "gain up" LOL Bill

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Bill, I knew about the "auto brightness" due to the easy navigable menu on the display (I have not seen the full manual which is still in the CD). This is certainly no "gain up" as in the G1. My cam has the latest firmware. Nothing "brightens up", unfortunately.

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    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Vivek, I was able to compare two NX10's together and noticed a difference, tomorrow I will bring my G1 and take some time to find a dark area and compare them together. I have also not looked at the full manual on the CD. I am using the latest firmware and usually update cameras before selling. regards Bill

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    OK, Samsung have issued firmware updates:

    F/W 1.15 for the cam:

    2. Improvements compare to F/W version 1.15

    □ We added EVF selection function on the AMOLED displayed menu.
    □ We added MF Asist On/Off selection function.
    □ We added MF usage function while using K-Mount Adapter.
    □ We improved Auto White Balance function of Low color temperature condition.
    □ We improved SD Card Read/Write speed.
    □ System stablization

    and there are updates for the lenses as well.


    http://www.samsungimaging.com/learn/...angPrdSeq=6033

    Have to do it and check if it makes the cam useful.....

    An adapter tidbit:

    Wolfgang Rabe has fabricated a NX10 to Arri adapter and has a couple of sample shots on Flickr using Tegea 9.8mm f/1.8 and Zeiss Distagon 16/2.


    Looks like Samsung would not let me download the update though I have a genuine NX10 with a genuine serial number.

    I am positive that there are no counterfeit NX10s out there.
    Last edited by Vivek; 1st June 2010 at 15:36.

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I tried everyone of Samsung's sites (giving all the useful information that they required- whether I am single, own a house, income, etc- surely they have all the correct information ) and it is a no go for me. The US site said that my camera was made in March (Model: ES-NX10ZZSEB Serial: A3XLC10Z300479).

    I am sure that I will forego any future products (including that intriguing KIMCHI refrigerator) from Samsung.

  26. #26
    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    I down loaded and updated the NX10 for a customer today. At first putting in the s/n number would not work until I clicked on the button beside the place to enter the number that asked to verify the s/n number and then it worked, Bill

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Bill, I tried that as well (several times). Unfortunately, no.

    Could anyone kindly email me the wretched update?

  28. #28
    Bill Wilby
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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Bill, I tried that as well (several times). Unfortunately, no.

    Could anyone kindly email me the wretched update?
    I will be able to help you tomorrow when I am back at the story, can you sent me your email to [email protected] Bill

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Bill, Many sincere thanks for your kind help! Version 1.15 is in the cam now, thanks to you!

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    Re: Call to Samsung (NX10) to update the firmware so that the camera would be useful

    Going through the list of upgrades:


    □ We added EVF selection function on the AMOLED displayed menu.

    Good. This is the EVF/OLED toggle. One annoyance is done with.

    □ We added MF Asist On/Off selection function.

    Not a bad thing to have.

    □ We added MF usage function while using K-Mount Adapter.

    Yes! Manual focus assist works just as with a system lens!
    (though this is a far far cry from m4/3rds)
    This is only a 2X magnification and only works for a central area. This could indicate the limits of Samsung's CMOS sensor (not as responsive as the NMOS of Panasonic)?


    □ We improved Auto White Balance function of Low color temperature condition.

    I guess so...

    □ We improved SD Card Read/Write speed.

    This appears less painfully slow now.

    □ System stablization

    Don't know what that means but an easy/open access to firmware update would be even more helpful.

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